Posted by holfresh:



Marbs aver...20 pts 8 assist for 10 years....I'll put that up against anyone in the last 30 years....

At best you defend 1/2 of Marbs game - what about his defense?

Is there a relationship between -

his bad defense
his being considered over-rated by his peers
former gms and coaches being anxious to get rid of him
not getting along with team mates

and consistently playing for losing teams?

Posted by TMS:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by SlimPack:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Marbury says dumb things often and is not a leader. That said, he's far from the reason that this team is bad. The team is bad because we have no shot blockers, no perimeter defenders, minimal perimeter shooting, and minimal low post scoring

dude, a HUGE part of the reason this team is bad is because of Marbury's lack of defense on the perimeter & the fact that there are no leaders here other than Malik Rose... he's getting paid a max contract & he's Isiah's boy... he needs to step up & be a leader, pointblank... stop making excuses for this guy already.

I dont know if I would call it making excuses, after all marbury was NEVER a leader, even back when he first got his max contract, why should we expect him to change now? marbury was always a highly paid, yet talented player with attitude problems, thats why we where able to get him with the garbage we sent to pheonix. you get what you pay for. anyway I disagree that marbury is a huge reason why we are losing. beleive it or not, when marbury doesnt play, the team looks even worse. I doubt his bad defense plays that much of a factor becuase everyone on our team is a bad defender, for the most part though I agree with what bonn said.

[Edited by - slimpack on 03-12-2006 3:44 PM]

I had the same reaction. I don't know what the excuses I was making are. An excuse is a reason that justifies a poor performance. I gave no such reasons. I agree with everything you said, slim, about Marbury having attitude problems but not being the reason are team sucks. We were much worse without than with him.

the entire reason i want him out of here is because i want a LEADER to replace him who doesn't have those attitude problems & who'll be a CONTRIBUTOR to team chemistry & not a cause of the lack of it... is that clear enough for you or do i need to go into the specific reasons again as to why i think Marbury's a negative presence on this roster?

It's clear and I agree with everything you said. I'd want to trade Marbury too if I thought we could get something half decent for him. My previous post was simply an expression of confusion over your comment about making excuses for Marbury.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 03-12-2006 6:09 PM]

Is leadership really the issue here? If it is, that's point #142 for why LB should retire. If Marbury is really a cancer on the floor, then why are Nate and Lee sitting on the bench instead of Marbs? They have positive energy and leadership. Why aren't they playing?

You know who really needs to be a leader? How about our friggin' coach? Until I see this team winning games because they look more fundamentally sound than their opponents I will call for LB to retire. We lead the league in turnovers, fouls, and completely botched in-bounds plays. Larry's just cashing checks here, nothing else.

Posted by OldFan:

Marbs get blamed for stuff in his sleep....His defense...He is not Gary Payton but he has done a decent job this year playing D....Funny thing is, no one ever mentions Nash's lack D or Iverson's or Parker for that matter....Marbs is the only point in this league whose strength isnt his defense...

Being considered over rated...they are jealous of his contract...any maybe his value doesn't equal his contract...He is still a good player...a damn good one at that...

Not getting along with mates...Marbur by far has been the best Knick this year...I'm not looking for guys who pal around with each other...I'm looking for guys who give effort in games..Marbs does that..

You know, it must be difficult selling papers without bad mouthing Marbs...

Marbs defense is not decent this year and has not been decent at any point in his career. Marbury has played the vast majority of minutes at PG and the Knicks Per (summary stat from John Hollinger) 17.2 (15 is average) every one of the players you mentioned allow lower pers and have better offensive pers.

Marbs is not the only player with a max contract. Yet he is the only one considered the MOR (most over-rated) in the league.
He has good skills. But that does not equate exactly to a good player. He's a player coaches, gms, teammates and opponents don't like and don't think is a good player. Why is that?

He doesn't have to pal around. But not being hated does help. Do you work well with people you hate?

Yep the papers definitely trash marbs to sell. But that ain't why teams trade him, opponents think he's over-rated, team mates don't like him and he's never been able to make a team even a pretender.

I do catch most if not all the Kinck games and in my opinion, Marbs is playing well defensively this year....It is also the opinion of the broadcasters doing the games because they also have said this on many occasions....Watching the NBA for almost 30 years now, I can tell that Marbs is one of the better point guards in this league..I really don't base my opinion on what others say regarding an individual...I judge based on what I see....

People may think he is over-rated, that may just be the case....But the Knicks have not had another point guard this good since Clyde...And I'm not talking talent....Clearly the team is lost without him...Are you really telling me that Marbs is not a good player?

I blame Isiah.

Posted by holfresh:

Posted by OldFan:

Marbs get blamed for stuff in his sleep....His defense...He is not Gary Payton but he has done a decent job this year playing D....Funny thing is, no one ever mentions Nash's lack D or Iverson's or Parker for that matter....Marbs is the only point in this league whose strength isnt his defense...

Being considered over rated...they are jealous of his contract...any maybe his value doesn't equal his contract...He is still a good player...a damn good one at that...

Not getting along with mates...Marbur by far has been the best Knick this year...I'm not looking for guys who pal around with each other...I'm looking for guys who give effort in games..Marbs does that..

You know, it must be difficult selling papers without bad mouthing Marbs...

Marbs defense is not decent this year and has not been decent at any point in his career. Marbury has played the vast majority of minutes at PG and the Knicks Per (summary stat from John Hollinger) 17.2 (15 is average) every one of the players you mentioned allow lower pers and have better offensive pers.

Marbs is not the only player with a max contract. Yet he is the only one considered the MOR (most over-rated) in the league.
He has good skills. But that does not equate exactly to a good player. He's a player coaches, gms, teammates and opponents don't like and don't think is a good player. Why is that?

He doesn't have to pal around. But not being hated does help. Do you work well with people you hate?

Yep the papers definitely trash marbs to sell. But that ain't why teams trade him, opponents think he's over-rated, team mates don't like him and he's never been able to make a team even a pretender.

I do catch most if not all the Kinck games and in my opinion, Marbs is playing well defensively this year....It is also the opinion of the broadcasters doing the games because they also have said this on many occasions....Watching the NBA for almost 30 years now, I can tell that Marbs is one of the better point guards in this league..I really don't base my opinion on what others say regarding an individual...I judge based on what I see....

People may think he is over-rated, that may just be the case....But the Knicks have not had another point guard this good since Clyde...And I'm not talking talent....Clearly the team is lost without him...Are you really telling me that Marbs is not a good player?

To be part of a winning team you have to either lead or follow. Marbs does neither. He's not a leader and he won't follow. I just think it would be very difficult to build a championship team with him as one of your key players. He is reluctant to sacrifice his game for the team and he isn't good enough to be the man on a contender. So at a certain level of play - contending - I don't think he's that valuable. Does that make him better or worse then other guards the Knicks have had? Depends how you judge players. I think it be would be easier to build a contender with Mark Jackson (even with his terrible defense) in his prime or even Derek Harper or Doc Rivers. Are they better players - perhaps not depending on how you judge players. But if you building a contending team he's not the PG I'd want. Of course if he had a change in attitude - then everythings different but I don't see it happening.

PS - Frazier and Marbs shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence unless you're mocking Marbs. Frazier was a leader, a winner, a clutch player and didn't need to tell people he was good - they knew.

I was reading and it seems that a lot of people are blaming marbs for infecting the knicks with losses, blaming him for not making other players better, for making too much money. To tell you the truth he has been the only thing i can count on when i watch the games. the thing that stood out to me the most was that he avgs. about 8-10 dimes a season. That means he is passing the ball a lot. That sounds like a 20 and 10 guy. those guys are worth max contracts. you know what is funny is that KG and steph have about the same success in there careers. does that mean KG is not a leader. I mean KG is vocal on the court, hes buddies with the player off the court. does that make him worth the max because he is friendly. So his teammates must like playing with him right. So why can't his team win in the palyoffs and barely sneak into the playoffs. Lets see that makes KG and Hall of famer and Marbs a cancer. what would you like marbs to improve on. Passing the ball, he averages about 10 dimes ( only a few average 10 dimes a season maybe 3 people). so sharing isn't the problem. His points are up at about 20pt/game. so its not like hes not looking for his shot. His shooting % is decent right. so they are not bad shots hes taking.
Now lets look at what another poster wrote "when marbs doesn't get curry the ball were he wants it." well i hate to break it to you curry has to get into a good spot to receive the ball were he is most effective. the guy is a center with limited post moves. HOw many offensive fouls does curry have this season it like he does see the guy in front of him ( thats curry's fault i know he a young player but he's been in the game for more than 3-4 years, the guy is not progressing not even a little.)Lets not forget about JC, somedays he looks unstoppable, most of the time when the d gets physical JC disappears. lets go to Q1 if he didn't all of a sudden play decent d, I would rather put in Q2. ( they shoot about the same % right). Jrose at least hes scoring looks like our second best player. Francis 3 best. and how did Mrose become a great leader hes had about 5 good games maybe. I read that childs,river,anthony,stickland,jackson. where all better PG's in the past years. i don't know if you were joking but come they played with an (HOF) allstar player in pat. do you remember JAX in LA, rivers on the hawks, anthony on the trailblazers, childs were you serious, harper was very good on dallas but had no were close as much success as steph. steph is not a 7 foot center. thats like saying jayson williams is better PG that steph because of his success in miami. steph is the smallest guy on the court with no other all star players on the team.
a little off topic but someone wrote antonie walker has great all around stats lifetime like steph so that walker should be considered in the same category. Lets check the % on this guys shots. If i put 20/50 shots thats not good. you may avg. 20pts/game but a lot of bad shots were taken and thats uncomparable to marbs and 2nd they are 2 different positions. you need to compare PG to PG even though i used it in an analogy earlier.
Point of the post is just because marbs doesn't hang out with the teammates makes him a CANCER. hes actually a very good player.
Since im on a rool the post about Q1 helping Curry train over the summer are we sure we want to do that. Q1 needs help himself with that terrible jumpshot. does the other teams even guard him. ( we have a better chance with frye shooting 3's) - VENTING

seems like some of you assuming that by bashing Marbury, we're saying that he's a bad basketball player... no one here is saying that... we're saying he's a bad fit for the type of system LB wants to run, & that we're sick of Marbury's attitude & inability to be a leader... for those of you defending him, if you're happy w/him as the Knicks' PG & think this team can gel nicely w/him as their marquee player, that's your prerogative... i completely disagree... he's a negative presence on this team & he needs to go if we're going to look to become a champion in the future... simple as that.

Posted by Armondaone:

I was reading and it seems that a lot of people are blaming marbs for infecting the knicks with losses, blaming him for not making other players better, for making too much money. To tell you the truth he has been the only thing i can count on when i watch the games. the thing that stood out to me the most was that he avgs. about 8-10 dimes a season. That means he is passing the ball a lot. That sounds like a 20 and 10 guy. those guys are worth max contracts. you know what is funny is that KG and steph have about the same success in there careers. does that mean KG is not a leader. I mean KG is vocal on the court, hes buddies with the player off the court. does that make him worth the max because he is friendly. So his teammates must like playing with him right. So why can't his team win in the palyoffs and barely sneak into the playoffs. Lets see that makes KG and Hall of famer and Marbs a cancer. what would you like marbs to improve on. Passing the ball, he averages about 10 dimes ( only a few average 10 dimes a season maybe 3 people). so sharing isn't the problem. His points are up at about 20pt/game. so its not like hes not looking for his shot. His shooting % is decent right. so they are not bad shots hes taking.
Now lets look at what another poster wrote "when marbs doesn't get curry the ball were he wants it." well i hate to break it to you curry has to get into a good spot to receive the ball were he is most effective. the guy is a center with limited post moves. HOw many offensive fouls does curry have this season it like he does see the guy in front of him ( thats curry's fault i know he a young player but he's been in the game for more than 3-4 years, the guy is not progressing not even a little.)Lets not forget about JC, somedays he looks unstoppable, most of the time when the d gets physical JC disappears. lets go to Q1 if he didn't all of a sudden play decent d, I would rather put in Q2. ( they shoot about the same % right). Jrose at least hes scoring looks like our second best player. Francis 3 best. and how did Mrose become a great leader hes had about 5 good games maybe. I read that childs,river,anthony,stickland,jackson. where all better PG's in the past years. i don't know if you were joking but come they played with an (HOF) allstar player in pat. do you remember JAX in LA, rivers on the hawks, anthony on the trailblazers, childs were you serious, harper was very good on dallas but had no were close as much success as steph. steph is not a 7 foot center. thats like saying jayson williams is better PG that steph because of his success in miami. steph is the smallest guy on the court with no other all star players on the team.
a little off topic but someone wrote antonie walker has great all around stats lifetime like steph so that walker should be considered in the same category. Lets check the % on this guys shots. If i put 20/50 shots thats not good. you may avg. 20pts/game but a lot of bad shots were taken and thats uncomparable to marbs and 2nd they are 2 different positions. you need to compare PG to PG even though i used it in an analogy earlier.
Point of the post is just because marbs doesn't hang out with the teammates makes him a CANCER. hes actually a very good player.
Since im on a rool the post about Q1 helping Curry train over the summer are we sure we want to do that. Q1 needs help himself with that terrible jumpshot. does the other teams even guard him. ( we have a better chance with frye shooting 3's) - VENTING

Great explanation, but some people just want bash Stephon and are anal enough to take anything he says and twist it into something that's supposedly so detrimental to the team. That goes tfor both members of the media as well as some posters here.

I think you need to find a team that is on the cuspe of being elite of championship contending and try to fleece him on them while including a young player & a draft pick.....

Atlanta might be interested if you offer them david lee perhaps for harrington, or even butler in the deal, you need to get him off this team as soon as possible.....

You just need defensive role players because you have guys that can't defend, crawford, francis, steph, jalen, channing, eddy it really sad how stupid isiah is, and you must be ****ing kidding me that you are saying no to a player like luke ridnior, we have francis we need someone that can provide backup minutes and try to find people.....

Portland is so ****ed that we may be able to do a deal with them David Lee and Steph for Telfair and Theo, we just need to get role player and start to clean house, maybe we can package, nate, jalen, and denvers pick for Odom and give them a little cap room at the end of the year.....its a no win situation, and the lakers are not going anywhere with what they have so they might as well start over, with Nate, Bynum, Hilton Armstrong or Boone, Turiaf they would be moving in the right direction

no way do i give up Lee & Marbury just to get back Telfair & Ratliff, but throw in their lottery pick & where do i sign?