Posted by misterearl:

>>Isiah, at this point looking like an idiot because he either brought in the wrong coach in Larry or Larry was just looking to screw him, plus his cluster f**k with Anucha ...


Hold up right there Marv. What "cluster"... WHAT? I thought in this country a person was innocent until proven guilty. Then again, if those laws don't apply to Isiah Thomas in your narrow mindedness, it only is evidence of your bias.

Larry is not the "wrong" coach unless you, in your genius, know who the "right" coach was. (pause for your response) I didn't think so.


>>plus the growing perception to everyone that he had sold out this team's future (next 2 #1's ) for nothing,

Everyone?

>>This ain't leadership or direction in my opinon. THis is BS.

>>Where is this franchise going?

Up

>.What are we developing?

A better sense of trust on the floor

>>What's happening/going to happen with our young players?

No one knows. Chill. Rookies aren't hatched instantly.

>>But I'm sure as s**t not signing off on either Isiah's "plan" or LB's "right way' approaches.

Marv - your signature is not required. Besides, how can you "sign-off" on something you know absolutely nothing about. Then again, if you've been included in some internal policy meetings at 2 Penn Plaza I'm all ears...

cut the drama

One more thing Marv
There is no such thing as ":the right way" to play basketball. There are shots taken in rhythm and flow, and there are forced shots. There is communication or there is pouting. There is cohesion or there is chaos.

None of the billions of trade proposals will have one ounce of effect in what Isiah, Larry and the scouting team decide on.

For the pain and suffering of Larry's inaugural season in New York, the passage of the trade deadline and the seating of Mo Taylor seems to have settled some of the angst on the roster. I like what Steve Francis is offering in terms of willingness to accept a new role.

I like the fact Quentin Richardson is a survivor.

I like the fact Jalen Rose plays with a smile, can erupt on a moments notice and has playoff experience.

I like the fact our rookies have ALL received a baptism with meaningful minutes. None can claim they were not given enough light to prove their worth.

The plan was to audition this roster for as long as it took to sort out the deck.. It just happened to take longer than anyone guessed it would.

The plan was that Isiah knew Larry Brown was one of the few coaches who could buy time to sort the roster. Herb, Don Chaney or even Lnny Wilkens would have been torched without mercy in the press. Larry gets a pass.

It's not "all good" but its not the desperate situation too many people buy into mimicking the chicken littles in the press as they run around in circles of panic wailing about how terrible things are in New York.

Watch how the Knicks play and tell me if you see a change for the better.

Watch, and see if you can detect growth

I swear, your lips keep moving but nothing comes out.

The plan was that Isiah knew Larry Brown was one of the few coaches who could buy time to sort the roster. Herb, Don Chaney or even Lnny Wilkens would have been torched without mercy in the press. Larry gets a pass.

no other coach in the nba is entitled to a free pass + nearly 10 mil just to produce the drama as one of the worst efforts by any coach in team history

so now as some kind of consolation to knick fans, if this year disaster shows improvement should knick fans start wondering what took them so long?

do you give gurantees on the cars you sell ?

Just wondering but was the loss to the worst team in the league, I mean second to the worst team, a sign of progress? Was that a part of turning the corner?

Does Marbury talking about how being Starbury again help the team in any way? I'm sure teams will be begging to offer their star players for him now this summer. Or maybe we get to hold onto this ***hole. Great.

cmon Earl.. i want to hear your excuses. Were the bobcats more talented? Maybe they just played harder? Cared more? Maybe we got outcoached? Was it LB's fault?

Please... this is just more of the same. Losers

Posted by simrud:

Earl we did not have a discussion because you have not made a point outside of these 3:

1)The team is turning it around, or, the team is about to turn it around, or the team has turned it around, etc. That is not an argument, that is just an opinion unbaked by any facts. Tell why you feel like they are, have, or someday will turn it around w/out major changes to the management philosophy, taka the Rangers.

2)It can't be IT's fault, once again, explain why. He has an awful track record, and his job here speaks for itself. Give one place outside of his playing days in Detroit where he had any kind of success.

3)IT gets a harder time being a GM cause he is black. This is just not true. And a copout as well. I'm sure some people out there dislike that a black man is in a position of power, but I can assure neither me, not anybody on this forum feel that way.

So please feel free to make a statement backed by fact, free of innuendos and character assaults, something that doesn’t smack of propaganda bull horning.

Personally, I'm not certain mister.earl is right about the Knicks "turning it around," (I certainly hope so) but I do think any student of history should know that race has been a factor in people's views of others for a VERY LONG TIME, no matter what people may say. Ask the people of the Montgomery City Government during the Bus Boycott or any "good ol' boy" from "the South" if they thought segregation was racist, and you'd be sure to hear them all say no. Today, it's a mostly a different story because racism is not as easy to see for many white people, so it's easier to deny it exists in other forms other than the most blatant, and even easier when it involves wealthy, non-white sport figures who are often the target of class/race based resentment.

This is not to say all of the criticism of Isiah is based in racist ideaology, because clearly his job performance is worth questioning, as anyone else would with the record of this team over 2+ years. However, history tells us that white people have often been more comfortable with criticizing non-white people in positions of power than white folk. Paternalism and a sense of superiority is what is often suspected of white people when they freely criticize non-whites with some power or wealth, because HISTORICALLY this is what has occured. Does that mean this is automatically the fundamental force behind criticism of non-whites from white people? I believe it is difficult to say because with everyone it is different, but the suspicion is there whether white people like it or not, so maybe it's worth thinking about these patterns rather than dismissing them as ridiculous.

Any scientist or researcher has to take into consideration all of the facts before passing judgement, so to deny that racism MAY play some kind of role in Isiah's criticism seems rather selective and lacking in introspective thought.



[Edited by - PresIke on 03-12-2006 4:10 PM]

Posted by misterearl:

..clearly his job performance is worth questioning, as anyone else would with the record of this team over 2+ years. However, history tells us that white people have often been more comfortable with criticizing non-white people in positions of power than white folk.

Any scientist or researcher has to take into consideration all of the facts before passing judgement, so to deny that racism MAY play some kind of role in Isiah's criticism seems rather selective and lacking in introspective thought.

presike - I could not have said it any better.

Never, NEVER - as Simrud claims - did I EVER mention anything about Isiah's race being the reason to give him a free pass. No one in the organization is above critique. Then on the other hand, no one has ever provided a valid reason why Scott Layden was provided four years of relative peace to destroy a playoff team, and now Isiah Thomas must correct the course the franchise was set on - in half the time (?)

But I am not here to defend Isiah, I am disspointed, but not surprised, in the level of hostility for dissenting opinion. The childish personal insults of posters like Simrud only validate how far this country has to go.

No matter how much djsunyc and I may have varying opinion, we manage to hold it together and HAVE a conversation. We've even shared the same row in Section 404. We cheer together. We hurt every time the Knicks lose. We laugh it off.

I hope it gets better so we can move on to other things.

It's only basketball.

I'm not white. Isiah sucks.

Islesfan - if nothing else, you are relentless

You any relation to Smokin' Joe Frazier?

This is a little something out of Lupica's column yesterday, it had nothing to do with the Knicks but at the same time it had everything to do with them.

"I watched Paul Tagliabue the other day after he announced that his owners had gotten together to make that deal with the Players Association, and was reminded of something Chuck Daly told me one time when he was with the Nets.

"They allow me to coach them," Daly said.

Meaning, his players"

I don't think Brown has done his best job and I think they could have squeezed a few more victories here and there but I don't think the talent that has been assembled is much better than they've shown as far as being a team.

A coach is important but if they don't buy into what the coach is trying to teach them and they refuse to put in the effort and play smart basketball, there's not much a coach can do.

I thought it was damning that it took a meeting with Dolan to get them to give an honest effort in their big 2 game winning streak last week. They only make more money than any team in NBA history, God forbid they should try.

I think there's enough blame to go around, including for LB but he's about 4th on the list behind:

Isiah - for putting this team together and hiring LB

Dolan - for being an idiot

The Players - for being too selfish, stupid and not giving an honest effort.

LB - for being too stubborn.

This thread is hilarious... Laughing my ass off right now. Rename this the "haters get emasculated" thread hahaha!!!!

Knicks, baby!

It's the way you feel when you walk outside with a Knicks jersey on.

Posted by fishmike:

whats emasculated mean

emasculated
A  adjective
1 	cut, emasculated, gelded
	(of a male animal) having the testicles removed; "a cut horse"

aka a ken doll...