man, when you look at it, he moved 4 unprotected #1's. he did get 4 in return but the chances any of those 4 being lower than #20 were VERY LOW.

makes you scratch your head, no?

Posted by joec32033:

IMO...Remember KT had that extension and at the time Tim had what 3 yrs left on his pact? plus I doubt LA would've wanted picks 3 yrs down the road...it prbbly would've cost us the pick that turned out to be Frye and and an 06...

still falls in their 2007 plan. tim expires this year. kurt had the same length but smaller dollars than brian grant. sweetney was a nice young piece. you're probably right tho, we probably would've had to swap 05 and give an 06 unprotected. but it is shaq we're talking about so that doesn't matter.

Forget about Shaq, how much better would our situation look if we had those draft picks while being this bad and without having added all that salary. Hmm, 4 lottery picks from 2004-07 plus cap space in the summer of 07 when some pretty good talent may be available. Sounds like our future would have been a hell of a lot brighter. A sure thing? Not at all but I'd take that scenario over the one we're in.

just wanted to switch up the conversation a little. for all we gave up, shaq would've been worth it. chances are phil jackson would've followed him to ny that summer as well, or at least another year later. i wouldn't have done it, but i wouldn't have done what isiah did either.

it was more like if you were presented with a choice of having this team or trading for shaq two summers ago, which one would you have chosen, more importantly, which one would've yielded better results.

Posted by joec32033:

I doubt it....Odom and Caron is a much more attractive package, IMO...Remember KT had that extension and at the time Tim had what 3 yrs left on his pact? plus I doubt LA would've wanted picks 3 yrs down the road...it prbbly would've cost us the pick that turned out to be Frye and and an 06...

LA would have laughed at that offer from NY

Shaq said that he had no desire to be in NY.

Believe it or not, I'd rather have this team than Shaq for the last two years or the ultra-rebuild scenario. Shaq plus the Layden-era vets wasn't going to contend for a title, and getting Shaq is about the most extreme win-now move you could make. (You wouldn't have Marbury with Shaq because two of the picks went in the Marbury deal. Also, we've had one lotto pick b/w 04 and 07, and will have another one unless the Bulls make the playoffs next year.)

The real question is: would you rather have those draft picks and chance for cap space next year than the net of Isiah's trades: Marbury, Francis, Eddy, D Lee, Q-Rich, Nate, the Spurs & Nuggets picks, Jalen, Crawford, Taylor, and Malik? I'll take this team, believe it or not, but my only point is that that would be the case against Isiah, if you're going to be disciplined and accurate about it.

You'd still have a really really bad team right now, so that's a wash. Without Isiah's moves you'd have another young player from the draft (Kirk Snyder? or someone better from that draft) to go with Frye and Sweetney and KT (and of course Lampe and Frank Williams!) and you'd be hoping for much luck in the lottery and free agency the next year or two. That's not necessarily closer to a contender than what we have now. For anyone coming in after Layden, the odds were stacked against building a contender anytime soon, no matter what path you took (especially knowing now that we'd never have Allan back). Slam Isiah if you will (and I know most of you will) but be real about the alternative -- we were probably screwed no matter what.

Marbs/Francis/Lee/Frye/Curry vs. Frankie?/MLE-signee 2-guard?/Rudy Gay/Sweetney/KT + own 07 pick, future free agent

Much less overall talent; maybe a better shot at landing a true superstar. (By the way, there are no superstar free agents on the market this coming off-season, as is often true. Most of those guys sign max extensions before they hit the market.)

Earl,

I like that term: "revisionist-Retro-FantasISER" as a label.

We have "haters", "homers", and now we can classify some as "revisionist-Retro-FantasISERs"!

They dream of what could have been. Problem is the chain of picks and avaliablity changes so much a teams capacity to get some players its almost impossible reconstruct accurately.

Too bad its a bitch to type!

There is also the "Revisionist-Retro-Lamentors". Those who dwell on past mistakes.

Part of that sect is the "Revisionist-Retro-LaydenBlamer". They congregate many of todays problems as a hangover from the Layden erea. The extreme hardcore "LaydenBlamer" will even recreate moves under Checketts and Ernie as Laydenistic visions of doom.

Posted by Nalod:

Shaq said that he had no desire to be in NY.

exactly... doesn't matter what we could have offered... he wanted to go to MIA, so that's where he got traded to... the Lakers got raped on that deal & everyone knows it, but Kupchak had really little other choices available to him