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You can't rebuild in NY
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islesfan
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3/2/2006  2:35 PM
Can someone please explain this idiocy to me? Apparently you can't rebuild in NY because fans won't tolerate being bad, even though there is the hope of lottery picks and potential big free agent signings. But we're supposed to be tolerable of being bad with no hopes of lottery picks and no potential big free agent signings and having a roster full of overpaid and underachieving players?!? Please don't even bothering posting that the latter is a rebuild.

Why is it again that you can't rebuild in NY?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
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djsunyc
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3/2/2006  2:38 PM
if a gm comes out and says "hey, we're gonna rebuild. it's gonna take some time and we have some bad contracts that we may have to wait out, but we're gonna try it this way. please be patient." and in return, as bad contracts keep coming off the books, give fans some nice perks like more access to the players, more open practices, maybe even take $2 off per ticket, i'm assuming that nobody would be complaining. if you do it right, you can do anything as long as your candid and honest about it.
islesfan
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3/2/2006  2:40 PM
You can do anything as long as you have a plan and it makes sense.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Allanfan20
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3/2/2006  2:41 PM
We're the worst team in the league with no draft pick, and a bad draft pick for next year, and the guy we traded those picks for isn't justifying anything. Trading Sweetney and TT and only those guys for Curry is proving to be enough. You might as well be rebuilding if you're the worst team in the league.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
misterearl
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3/2/2006  2:42 PM
You can do anything as long as you win

Plan or no plan.

Anything else and you are french toast
once a knick always a knick
Nalod
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3/2/2006  2:44 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

if a gm comes out and says "hey, we're gonna rebuild. it's gonna take some time and we have some bad contracts that we may have to wait out, but we're gonna try it this way. please be patient." and in return, as bad contracts keep coming off the books, give fans some nice perks like more access to the players, more open practices, maybe even take $2 off per ticket, i'm assuming that nobody would be complaining. if you do it right, you can do anything as long as your candid and honest about it.

That is what Dolan/Layden should have done in December 04. Get the picks and let Layden play to his strenghts in the draft.

Lets put it this way, this is the worst team in knick history, what would have been worse than this?

Chaney? Eisley? Etc?



misterearl
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3/2/2006  2:47 PM
>> if a gm comes out and says "hey, we're gonna rebuild. it's gonna take some time and we have some bad contracts that we may have to wait out, but we're gonna try it this way. please be patient."

All of a sudden $1000. courtside seats don't look like a good investment

All of a sudden your competitors are picking over your team like vultures witnessing your certain demise

All of a sudden people stop buying your merchandise and your cable ratings drop

All of a sudden six years seems like an eternity in NYC. That's how long it took the Bulls.

Every team rebuilds, evey season

you really want to start from scratch?

no gurantees.
once a knick always a knick
misterearl
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3/2/2006  2:48 PM
>>Get the picks and let Layden play to his strenghts in the draft.

Okay, that's IT
once a knick always a knick
Bippity10
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3/2/2006  2:50 PM
We fire everyone after one year. Since 1999 we've been through 5 or 6 coaches, 3 GM's and now 5 new franchise players. Who in their right mind is going to try to rebuild if they know they won't be there to see it come to fruition? Every move that every GM makes is in an attempt to catch lightning in a bottle to save their jobs. They worry about championships after that.

To me it's not a tough concept to see. It's been going on for 6-7 years and I've been talking about it for 6-7 years. When we have stability, you will see changes. Until then it will be more of the same with just different names.

Our organization is a free-for all with everyone watching out for themselves. Our GM's and coach's undermine each other because they know whoever is on top will be the last to be fired. Let's let our guys make mistakes, adjust to their mistakes, make more mistakes, adjust to those mistakes and give them the 5 or 6 years it's going to take to turn this around. I don't care if it's LB and Zeke. I don't care if it's Chaney and Layden. What I care about is giving a GM a chance to implement a plan so he is making moves that fit his coach and can help us build. Instead of having to make moves to please fans, sell tickets and worst of all SAVE HIS ARSE.
I just hope that people will like me
djsunyc
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3/2/2006  2:54 PM
Posted by misterearl:

>> if a gm comes out and says "hey, we're gonna rebuild. it's gonna take some time and we have some bad contracts that we may have to wait out, but we're gonna try it this way. please be patient."

All of a sudden $1000. courtside seats don't look like a good investment

All of a sudden your competitors are picking over your team like vultures witnessing your certain demise

All of a sudden people stop buying your merchandise and your cable ratings drop

All of a sudden six years seems like an eternity in NYC. That's how long it took the Bulls.

Every team rebuilds, evey season

you really want to start from scratch?

no gurantees.

for every $1000 seat, which comes out to $44,000 for the year, you save TENFOLD instead of spending $5mil a year on jerome james. the garden was drawing 15K+ still during the worst shantella eisleyspoon days. they would still draw that during the frye/lee/nate days, if not more.

bulls messed up. they had the best frontcourt in the nba and traded them away (miller/brand/artest). what would the situation of this team be right now if all isiah did was draft? no trades. no signings. just draft. with isiah's draft acumen, we'd be in a 10X better situation.

but that's neither here nor there since the moves made over the past few months have put us in a bind. no real high picks for 3 of the next 5 years.
djsunyc
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3/2/2006  3:04 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

We fire everyone after one year. Since 1999 we've been through 5 or 6 coaches, 3 GM's and now 5 new franchise players. Who in their right mind is going to try to rebuild if they know they won't be there to see it come to fruition? Every move that every GM makes is in an attempt to catch lightning in a bottle to save their jobs. They worry about championships after that.

To me it's not a tough concept to see. It's been going on for 6-7 years and I've been talking about it for 6-7 years. When we have stability, you will see changes. Until then it will be more of the same with just different names.

Our organization is a free-for all with everyone watching out for themselves. Our GM's and coach's undermine each other because they know whoever is on top will be the last to be fired. Let's let our guys make mistakes, adjust to their mistakes, make more mistakes, adjust to those mistakes and give them the 5 or 6 years it's going to take to turn this around. I don't care if it's LB and Zeke. I don't care if it's Chaney and Layden. What I care about is giving a GM a chance to implement a plan so he is making moves that fit his coach and can help us build. Instead of having to make moves to please fans, sell tickets and worst of all SAVE HIS ARSE.

layden and isiah did not try a rebuild. they tried covering sh t with ketchup. at what point, as a business man, and more importantly, a basketball man, do you see what's going on and say "hold on a second, we need to stop some of this." that's the problem here, neither mills nor dolan are smart enough in that department to say that. hence the ineptitude that goes on with this organization. it's no coincidence that it all went downhill once the bball minds left upper management. you say only in ny do we want to fire anybody. funny, b/c on in ny, with dolan and mills in charge would these guys actually get a bunch of years to work it out. layden got 4, sather got 6...and he was SAVED by the lockout. so isiah gets 4, i'm assuming, right. THANK GOD brown is here b/c if isiah had total autonomy, who knows what would happen.
mikesknicks
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3/2/2006  3:06 PM
Are you people from jersey or something????? No way can a GM or coach come out and say we are not going to be good, and NY fans that play the highest prices in the league for tickets with very fickle fans going to take that. Do you know how much Business is done at knick games. You can't have a lottery team on purpose. This will NEVER happen.
In the Knick of time. Knickal for Your thoughts.
bigpimpin
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3/2/2006  3:17 PM
You can do anything you want to if you HAVE A BRAIN
"Anyone who sits around waiting to hit the lottery, whether basketball or real life, in order to better their position is a loser."
TMS
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3/2/2006  3:18 PM
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Bonn1997
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3/2/2006  3:22 PM
You can't rebuild the traditional way with Cablevision/Dolan owning the franchise. It has nothing to do with New York. If Cablevision ran the Charlotte Bobcats, it would be "you can't rebuild in Charlotte"
bigpimpin
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3/2/2006  3:29 PM
in all honesty, the Knicks don't have to rebuild -- they only have to stop adding to the problem.

when you have cancer, it doesn't make good sense to keep smoking cigarettes.

if you have long toenails that rip your socks, it doesn't make sense to keep buying new socks.

if you are putting bad gas in your car, it doesn't make sense to keep buying new cars




"Anyone who sits around waiting to hit the lottery, whether basketball or real life, in order to better their position is a loser."
MS
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3/2/2006  3:37 PM
I'm sorry but the bulls had a frontcourt of Miller, Artest and Brand and they came out of the deal with Jalen Rose and Tyson Chandler

They had Scottie Pippen and they didn't get picks or anything of value in the trade, they ended up signing Brent Barry because no one would take their money because of Jerry Krause, because he did MJ wrong players remember stuff like that

So the Bulls would have been able to do it right away

The Nuggets turned around the fate quickly and are at least exciting to watch, the magic would have done it had they kept Ben Wallace for next to nothing with T-MAC and Duncan was very close to going there

It takes a little luck but it can be done....

The Bobcats could have been one of the better teams in the East in a couple of years if they knew how to draft.....5 and 13 could have been Villenueava/Frye and Granger instead of May and Felton.....its all about luck planning and not overestimating what a player does in a playoff series (Croshere, James, Lue, Dooling)
realhiphop
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3/2/2006  3:45 PM
Dolan is simply a moron. There's a few inherent things that every GM and certainly every business man should know. There are inherent things like market cycles. Fortunately in sports, these cycles can somewhat be predicted. 2007 was known to be one of the best years in a decade for the draft and free agency. With that knowledge the smart GM's are making a push to be under the cap in 2007. Isiah did the complete opposite.

His moves are baffling. We can't rebuild the traditional way? You think NY'ers wouldn't be excited knowing me had a shot at Lebron in 2007? How about shedding salary and getting a franchise player through free agency? Smart moves!

I still don't understand why Isiah would give an option to swap picks to the Bulls in 2007. The whole world knows the talent pool in that draft is going to be crazy. Now not only do we have an overpaid roster with an underachieving Center, but we have no shot at making any moves for another 2 years.
realhiphop
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3/2/2006  3:46 PM
Isiah Thomas should have simply used his 2 talents. He should have used his used carsaleman qualities to lure a free agent by selling NYC and simply drafted players.
bigpimpin
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3/2/2006  3:47 PM
Are you kidding me? This is New York.

Of course we will have a shot at Lebron James.

Just like we had a shot at Kobe Bryant, Shaq, etc

Where have you been, dude
"Anyone who sits around waiting to hit the lottery, whether basketball or real life, in order to better their position is a loser."
You can't rebuild in NY

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