I dont think its that deep. I think Francis still could have happened - and should have happened because we got him for NOTHING.

Not having the pick hurts, but I dont think it would have made us sellers at this point and pointing towards a major rebuilding. Lets face it - this team was dur for a season like this under Layden - in fact it should have happened when Lebron was in the draft. We could have at least had a shot at Melo. But hindsight is 20/20.

You have to look at the pick for NEXT year as the real big killer.

Posted by Nalod:

I hear you, but Lamarcus, Morrison, or Rudy is not exactly franchise talent either.

as of right now. march madness boosts value (frye went from mid-late first round to lottery based on march games).

but it's not necessarily using the pick on a player, but the option of trading the #1 for multiple picks later to address many needs or to trade it for a young stud player in the league, etc.

on draft night, the #1,2, or 3 pick will be more valuable than eddy curry.

Posted by djsunyc:

if only woody went right to the police, none of this would've happened

if we had OUR unprotected pick back, none of this would've happened. no trade for jalen rose to get that denver pick. no trade for steve francis. IN FACT, if we had our unprotected #1, i bet you we're sellers at the deadline. i bet they would've spun this as a part of rebuilding and go into tank mode to ensure an even higher pick. but no, we gave away that pick so in losing, we have NOTHING to show for it. and it's not like curry is a 20/10 monster that's dominating either.

i think it all comes back to that pick.

Trading an unprotected pick in a package for a player of Curry's caliber is horse****. Regardless of what you predict our record to be as a GM, you protect the pick. Keep in mind, we came into the season with the 8th worst record - losing our best defensive player in KT, with a new coach, no starting small forward, and adding 4 young players to play significant minutes. Not to mention, a 22 year old center with minimal defensive and rebounding presence who I absolutely GUARANTEED to "real" fans like Hardcore will NOT get much better this season. At some point, you have to retain some intelligence and give up the Shaq fantasy. When you look at his defensive rotation instincts, poor lateral movement and offensive foul history, how convinced are you that this season is anything other than a crapshoot? And Isiah not insuring that gamble was as disasterous move as any he has made.

That said, the Rose and Francis trades remain unaffected by that blunder. Keep in mind, even if the Curry-Rose-Francis trades were not made and a Marbury dump was accomplished at the deadline, we still don't achieve cap space any earlier. The Francis trade was made independently on an asset level and, as such, was worth the dead weight time until 2007.

The bottom line is certain moves are made to obtain end point players and others to obtain intermediates. Francis is an intermediate chip. Rose is an irrelavant chip brought in to acquire a draft pick. In terms of maximizing return value on expiring contracts, the Rose trade is up for debate but our asset appreciation can't be debated. And the Francis trade is precedent-seting as a landmark deal in terms of valuing expiring contracts - remember Houson got T-Mac for Francis. Isiah gets an A+ or higher for getting Steve Francis.

For the past 2 years, the Knicks have been in asset acquisition mode - snatching talent at literally any price. And without question, Isiah has ****ed up along the way. But now is when the team vision is critical - players have to be targetted and brought in. We have the chips to get it done - we just need the brains to build a cohesive team.

Is this the 1,000th thread about this or the 1,001st?