Posted by Marv:

Posted by djsunyc:

i don't think lb messed up at all. i think zeke messed up HIRING lb in the first place b/c there's a CLEAR mismatch in talent to the coach. team has no defensive players, and lb starts everything with defense. look no further to why it's a clusterf ck.

So then why did Larry take the job, besides money and locale? Is he evry bit as headstrong as Isiah? Does he crave controversy and conflict oand power struggles?? Is he oblivious to these issues and truly clueless and dumbstruck about having earned the nickname Next Town Brown?

shoot first, ask questions later.

lb probably took the job b/c of the money, the location, and b/c it was the knicks.

he was probably made promises of some control over personnel decisions. he's probably more headstrong than zeke. i think he's a calculated, conniving, cunning old bastard that knows EXACTLY what he's doing. i don't think he cares about stepping on toes until he gets his way. if we had some better vets here, it would be a completely different story. if the kt trade wasn't made, KT + AD as our starting frontcourt would've yielded much different AND BETTER results. he kept asking for a vet pg and never got one. there's a reason why and we can see it now. but we started spiraling downward and then we lost complete control. i don't agree with how he operates but i have to give him the benefit of the doubt. if another gm was hired and he wanted to get rid of lb, then cool, as long as there was a long term plan for sustained winning.

Posted by djsunyc:

i don't think lb messed up at all. i think zeke messed up HIRING lb in the first place b/c there's a CLEAR mismatch in talent to the coach. team has no defensive players, and lb starts everything with defense. look no further to why it's a clusterf ck.

LB is paid to make it work....He is paid to get the most out of his team...He has not made the adjustment to the team and is not willing to do so...In this manner he is getting a pass and Zeke is getting grief for hiring the guy....How could the guy get grief for hiring "best coach in teh biz"..That why people are so quick to pull the race card...It doesn't make sense...

The real question to ask is this....If Kiki was the GM for the Knicks and he hired LB and the Knicks performed in teh same manner...who would be feeling the heat, Kiki or LB?...

Posted by holfresh:

Posted by djsunyc:

i don't think lb messed up at all. i think zeke messed up HIRING lb in the first place b/c there's a CLEAR mismatch in talent to the coach. team has no defensive players, and lb starts everything with defense. look no further to why it's a clusterf ck.

LB is paid to make it work....He is paid to get the most out of his team...He has not made the adjustment to the team and is not willing to do so...In this manner he is getting a pass and Zeke is getting grief for hiring the guy....How could the guy get grief for hiring "best coach in teh biz"..That why people are so quick to pull the race card...It doesn't make sense...

The real question to ask is this....If Kiki was the GM for the Knicks and he hired LB and the Knicks performed in teh same manner...who would be feeling the heat, Kiki or LB?...

It depends. If kiki stocked the roster with guys that needed a mike D'Antoni/Paul Westphal/Paul Westhead (where is he these days?)/Rick Pitino coach, and mortaged our future to do so and then brought in Larry brown who immediately said i can't work with these players???? I think we'd all be singing to Kiki - "Na na na na, na na na na . . . ."

Posted by Marv:

Posted by holfresh:

Posted by djsunyc:

i don't think lb messed up at all. i think zeke messed up HIRING lb in the first place b/c there's a CLEAR mismatch in talent to the coach. team has no defensive players, and lb starts everything with defense. look no further to why it's a clusterf ck.

LB is paid to make it work....He is paid to get the most out of his team...He has not made the adjustment to the team and is not willing to do so...In this manner he is getting a pass and Zeke is getting grief for hiring the guy....How could the guy get grief for hiring "best coach in teh biz"..That why people are so quick to pull the race card...It doesn't make sense...

The real question to ask is this....If Kiki was the GM for the Knicks and he hired LB and the Knicks performed in teh same manner...who would be feeling the heat, Kiki or LB?...

It depends. If kiki stocked the roster with guys that needed a mike D'Antoni/Paul Westphal/Paul Westhead (where is he these days?)/Rick Pitino coach, and mortaged our future to do so and then brought in Larry brown who immediately said i can't work with these players???? I think we'd all be singing to Kiki - "Na na na na, na na na na . . . ."

Well maybe....I gave Zeke a break because most of us agree that the roster is more talented this year than in previous years....For that he gets a break from me....I'm hard on Larry because I think in all cases, coaches have to adapt to their players...Larry refuses to do so to the detriment of the team...What's left....I now have to wait until Zeke or who ever takes over get rid of all these guys to please Larry....It's not about the Knicks anymore, It's about Larry....I have a huge problem with that....

Posted by djsunyc:

Posted by holfresh:

Posted by djsunyc:

i don't think lb messed up at all. i think zeke messed up HIRING lb in the first place b/c there's a CLEAR mismatch in talent to the coach. team has no defensive players, and lb starts everything with defense. look no further to why it's a clusterf ck.

LB is paid to make it work....He is paid to get the most out of his team...He has not made the adjustment to the team and is not willing to do so...In this manner he is getting a pass and Zeke is getting grief for hiring the guy....How could the guy get grief for hiring "best coach in teh biz"..That why people are so quick to pull the race card...It doesn't make sense...

The real question to ask is this....If Kiki was the GM for the Knicks and he hired LB and the Knicks performed in teh same manner...who would be feeling the heat, Kiki or LB?...

isiah hired lb to save his own hide. he accumulated all these players and in a summer where phil and lb were available, to walk away without one would be failure. so he brought lb in. but the thing is that EVERYONE knew lb was a control freak and it had to be his way. isiah knew this. and he hired him to work with a bunch of guys that are completely opposite to what lb needs. so now they have to move some of the players unless they fire the coach.

it's like plopping d'antoni in pheonix. he had 2 pieces that fit the system - amare and marion. he had another player that didn't buy in - marbury. so what did they do? they shipped out steph. and d'antoni didn't have anywhere near the clout that lb has.

so why is it so difficult to accept this situation? except here, lb had ZERO pieces that fit his system. so we have to move some of the players to fit with him.

You also have to admit that Isiah had to go hard after LB...If he didn't he would be killled in this town...

i know lb hasn't really made any effort to accomodate the players on this roster now. and it sucks. but the real question is should he be?

Posted by holfresh:

Posted by djsunyc:

i know lb hasn't really made any effort to accomodate the players on this roster now. and it sucks. but the real question is should he be?

I'm lost dude to be honest..I feel defeated...I want Larry to be Larry because of his past success...But I didn't like the fact the his antics got the entire team hating him and not wanting to play for him...But the players are weak as well, how can you let Larry defeat you mentally like that..They show no pride in themselves or pride in their game...Thats what set Iverson apart, you can't defeat him mentally like that nor will it affect his game....

This is just one bad marriage that needs to end....The sooner it ends the better for all of us...
I can't see it getting any better going forward....

i'm guessing this is his way of weeding his players out. i think he's somewhat protective of the young guys. i think he likes frye and he like lee. i think he likes jackie blue also. he sees the potential in curry and keeps challenging him. but if you notice the vets, the only two that are really responding in terms of effort is quentin and malik. all the others aren't responding.

you made a good point about iverson. he took on lb head on and look at how that relationship evolved. i think that's what this year's purpose to lb. he didn't care about wins or losses but he wants to see who will be his guys and who he wants to keep.