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How quickly we forget...LB not too long ago..
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nyk4ever
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2/26/2006  10:34 PM
Posted by bigbeast:


And you guys want brown picking the groceries for his team when he picks Okafor over Micheal Redd? A guy who is taylor made for the Olympics? Oh, I forgot, Brown can't adjust his style, so playing the type of ball you need to play to compete in the Olympic was completely out of the question.

I would have picked Okafor too.. he plays defense, something Michael Redd has NEVER heard of but your right at the same time Redd can shoot. You are kind of faced with a dougle-edged sword with him.

What I'm saying is, guys like Carlos Arroyo, they play so well in the olympics becuase the competition suits their talents, which is fundamentals. Arroyo is a decent player but he doesnt have the same kind of fundamentals and athleticism/explosiveness that a guy like Ginobli has. Arroyo can't be the same player he is in the NBA because because the NBA plays a totally different style of basketball, just the same way the NBA can't adjust to the olympics anymore until they start putting the right talent into the team. TeamUSA now has to adjust to their competition and I think they will do that.



[Edited by - nyk4ever on 02-26-2006 10:37 PM]

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 02-26-2006 10:37 PM]
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rvhoss
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2/26/2006  10:37 PM
Hey, I love LB...he's teaching them the right way, I'm just wondering why everyone is not blaming him but blaming everyone else...I'm of the opionion that we are rebuilding.

I have patience...I've been in New York for a long time and understand that rome wasn't built in a day.

Now on to your attacking post:
Posted by eViL:

You might think this is a battle of articles, but it's not. What we see when we watch games is plain and simple. The team is weak. They play no D. They are poorly assembled. They are a mis-matched group of individual talents who lack chemistry and the desire to buy into a team concept.
that's funny, this is the same thing the articles said about the olympic team...kind of proving my point that both teams were coached by LB. Maybe he's not the best coach for talented teams?
You seem to value articles like they are the gospel. Well why don't you surf for today's Knicks news? All the articles are about how poorly constructed the team is. I guess you can't post those because they don't back up your anti-LB rants.
not really gospel, just more reminders of history...because without history then we are doomed to make the same mistakes. Like I said, I like LB...I think he's a great coach, but I think he is failing this year as a coach and am confused by the bashing of everyone else in the organization and not the actual coach (the one with 20 assitants and 40 starting rotations)
PS: ...rvhoss is to Larry Brown what islesfan is to Isiah Thomas...

Ummm...I really wouldn't put rvhoss and islesfan in the same sentence...makes me sick just looking at it.

and read my posts, I'm bashing the fact that every is blaming everyone else but LB. He has 15 wins. If it wasn't the knicks you'd say he sucked as a coach.

Why are the back to back 50 wins prior to LB and without rasheed ignored...he didn't win more games with them (off the top of my head, he may have) and last year he was interviewing for a GM job during the finals.

Just don't understand why you guys don't even give him 50% of the blame.

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rvhoss
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2/26/2006  10:40 PM
Now you are really talking crazy and, as Islefan once said about me and Zeke, "have your head so far up LB's ass he's sitting on your shoulders"

You do realize brown didn't even play okafur in the olympics. Why was he on the team? Sounds like David Lee DNPs.

and last I looked, this wasn't the olympics, it's the NBA.
Posted by nyk4ever:

I would have picked Okafor too.. he plays defense, something Michael Redd has NEVER heard of but your right at the same time Redd can shoot. You are kind of faced with a dougle-edged sword with him.



[Edited by - rvhoss on 02-26-2006 10:41 PM]
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nyk4ever
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2/26/2006  10:41 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

nice GIGANTIC POST...how about this little snippet you skipped over (obviously you didn't read it)

Sanchez is in a unique position to judge. He played college ball at Temple for John Chaney. He was traded, twice no less, by Larry Brown in the NBA

But somehow manages to play better elsewhere.

But, I guess you can post a gigantic article you didn't read and it's supposed to trump two articles that say blame the coach.

You are a joke. and I mean that from the heart.

I know it's painful watching the knicks lose, but if larry can't get any wins out of this team, then he sucks.


Hoss, you are totally missing the whole point of this article but I'm not surprised, someone like you wouldn't think rationally. Just for the record, your 2 articles were about the same length so nice try and trying to discredit me about posting a article instead of a smart basketball conversation, something you can't handle.

Where is Pepe Sanchez now? Where is he playing better elsewhere in the NBA? I don't think he's in the NBA and he hasnt' been for awhile now. Sanchez is tailormade for international style basketball, he knows how to play defense, he knows how to pass but sadly thats not good enough in the NBA anymore beucase he can't dunk over 2 defenders. That's why Sanchez isn't around, although you didnt really give me an argument, you just pasted what the article said without giving any kind of basketball knowledge.
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eViL
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2/26/2006  10:42 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

eVil...last I checked, LB wasn't coaching the pistons and they have an EVEN BETTER Record.

So, LB was the only reason they won, not coach before (50 wins) or the current coach...it's all LB...ok, you got it.

You're clearly a fool. You repeatedly miscontrue what people say into some extreme statement of black or white. Because your simple mind cannot fathom that an area between those two extremes exist, you debate ad nauseum with people while consistently failing to comprehend the most basic elements of what they are saying. I never said LB was the only reason they won, but since that's a simple argument for you to counter - that's how you interpret what I say so that it fits into your infantile paradigm.

You want to accuse people of regurgitation? Most of this thread is consisted of you regurgitating articles about the Olympics. You're hilarious.
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rvhoss
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2/26/2006  10:47 PM
I highlighted the parts that pertain to the discussion.

But hey, someone like me wouldn't think to do that for someone like you.

The argument was that pepe sanchez beat browns team and brown didn't like him. But somehow, somebody else was able to use him to get a win.

So now that the olympics are done with, what type of player is tailor made for the NBA?

LB is not a bumb, but he gets 50% of the blame for this year.

If you can't even concede that, then you just don't want to look at the obvious.

I'm watching the games, and if (my favorite coach of all time) Riley found his team down 10 points to start the game, a time out is called and heads roll in the huddle and we get those points back.

LB's first time out is when it's 20 to 4.

Is he even trying to win?

I don't think so, because we are rebuilding, but to say the season is a failure because of our record then it's because wins are not important this year.

But don't go lashing out at Zeke, Dolan and the players.

if you want to lash out about the record, do what the first article says.

blame the coach.

I'm still loving watching the games, and going to the games, and I'm not a season ticket holder. The team is one of the youngest in the league, the direction we are headed is great.

we've got assets and youth...and we've got franchise, starbury, and Co.

I've not even labeled this season a disaster.

But if you have, then you only need to blame one person...the coach.
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rvhoss
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2/26/2006  10:49 PM
These are my favorite posts.

Most of the time, when I feel that I don't have a leg to stand on, I think of launching a statement like that, then I grew up.

But really, nice come back.
Posted by eViL:

You're clearly a fool.



[Edited by - rvhoss on 02-26-2006 10:49 PM]
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nyk4ever
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2/26/2006  10:51 PM
Posted by rvhoss:


You are a joke. and I mean that from the heart.

Last I checked you did the same thing about a halfhour ago.


[Edited by - nyk4ever on 02-26-2006 10:52 PM]
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rvhoss
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2/26/2006  10:53 PM
oh my bad, I take it back...sorry.

I mean to imply that you "must be joking"

I take that back, but not the fact that if our record is important to you, then larry gets atleast 50% of the blame. if not, then I'm not sure what we are even talking about.

[Edited by - rvhoss on 02-26-2006 10:54 PM]
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eViL
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2/26/2006  10:57 PM
In conclusion, I already said that LB has done a bad job this year. And since you think history is so important, I posted a list of LB's historic accomplishments. When contrasted with the accomplishments of the players on his roster, the record strongly favors that LB has had more consistent long term success over his career than the rest of the team. If I'm going to give anyone the benefit of the doubt at this point, I'm going to give it to LB. If you don't understand that, it's not my fault. I've given everyone the benefit of the doubt so far. That benefit wears out over time if the results don't show. At this stage of the game, Zeke is in need of a miracle. I'll be the second to celebrate if that happens (since you'll obviously be first).

I guess I can understand why people have a problem with LB not getting any blame, but I don't think it's that big a deal. OK. So let's blame Larry Brown for this season's failure. Now what? Fire him? What result are you looking for? The fact of the matter is, the players have not played with the type of effort that's expected of them. No matter how confused they might be, that should not preclude them from hustling, fighting through screens, moving their feet, boxing out, etc. If LB gets the blame, I'm afraid it would only solidify a culture in which the players are not held accountable.

[Edited by - eViL on 02-26-2006 10:59 PM]
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rvhoss
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2/26/2006  10:58 PM
I don't look at this season as a failure.
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nyk4ever
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2/26/2006  10:58 PM
I'm not giving Larry Brown a clean slate, although I am giving him the benefit of the doubt. It still comes back to the fact that I think that the Knicks roster is not very well put together. Of course there are certain parts of it that I like (Curry, Frye, Steph) but the rest is NBA cast-offs, players no one wants, you can even put Stephon in that category, but I wont. Do I think Larry could have done a better job with this roster? Yes, he could have, theres no reason for this team to have as little wins as they do and I partly blame Brown for not adhering to the strenths of his players. Larry doesn't get a pass but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, to me Isiah has had his chance and now it's someone else turn.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
eViL
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2/26/2006  10:58 PM
Posted by eViL:

In conclusion, I already said that LB has done a bad job this year. And since you think history is so important, I posted a list of LB's historic accomplishments. When contrasted with the accomplishments of the players on his roster, the record strongly favors that LB has had more consistent long term success over his career than the rest of the team. If I'm going to give anyone the benefit of the doubt at this point, I'm going to give it to LB. If you don't understand that, it's not my fault. I've given everyone the benefit of the doubt so far. That benefit wears out over time if the results don't show. At this stage of the game, Zeke is in need of a miracle. I'll be the second to celebrate if that happens (since you'll obviously be first).

I guess I can understand why people have a problem with LB not getting any blame, but I don't think it's that big a deal. OK. So let's blame Larry Brown for this season's failure. Now what? Fire him? What result are you looking for? The fact of the matter is, the players have not played with the type of effort that's expected of them. No matter how confused they might be, that should not preclude them from hustling, fighting through screens, moving their feet, boxing out, etc. If LB gets the blame, I'm afraid it would only solidify a culture in which the players are not held accountable.

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rvhoss
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2/26/2006  10:59 PM
I see your guys point. It took a while, but I finally got it.

I just wanted to point out that people were having the exact same types of discussions on an even more talented team and the same coach.

it seems you see my point as well.

[Edited by - rvhoss on 02-26-2006 11:00 PM]
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eViL
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2/26/2006  11:19 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

I see your guys point. It took a while, but I finally got it.

I just wanted to point out that people were having the exact same types of discussions on an even more talented team and the same coach.

it seems you see my point as well.

Cool. I see your point too. I'm sorry about the harsh words in some of those posts. You're a good Knicks fan. If you weren't you wouldn't be here. Let's never argue again!
check out my latest hip hop project: https://soundcloud.com/michaelcro http://youtu.be/scNXshrpyZo
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How quickly we forget...LB not too long ago..
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