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Who made the decision to get Larry brown?
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BRIGGS
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2/25/2006  12:37 PM
Who did the DD behind the scenes on LB? Was there thought process put in on what our roster make-up was, where we wanted to go, how we wanted to play?

The culpability ALWAYS starts with the decision makers. If you want to scream at LB, than you should put blame on the guy who brought him here. Hes the one throwing the money around, he controlled the situation.

If someone is willing to take the blame for Jerome James

maybe they should expand that to the hundreds of millions of dollars wasted on coaches who and players who dont fit or just sck.

Right or wrong? In the corporate world--Isiah would already be OUT.
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holfresh
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2/25/2006  12:40 PM

Does that mean you think Larry is not doing a good job?
djsunyc
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2/25/2006  12:41 PM
i think in an offseason where both phil AND lb were available, for the knicks to walk away without either would've been a PR nightmare...and that's all they really care about anyway.

after firing chaney (and still paying him), then the hiring AND firing of lenny (and still paying him), we had to get a real coach here. there were many available this summer but it was really down to phil + lb.

phil said no.
lb said yes.

isiah would be out for buying out shandon and then wasting $30 mil on jerome. but that's spit in the buckets to these idiots.
BRIGGS
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2/25/2006  12:58 PM
Posted by holfresh:


Does that mean you think Larry is not doing a good job?

It could mean that Larry brown and the players we have don't match.

But there is something in common between most of our players and Larry brown--they were all brought in by isiah and we cant get rid of them because they ar all signed to huge long term deals.
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BRIGGS
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2/25/2006  1:03 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

i think in an offseason where both phil AND lb were available, for the knicks to walk away without either would've been a PR nightmare...and that's all they really care about anyway.

after firing chaney (and still paying him), then the hiring AND firing of lenny (and still paying him), we had to get a real coach here. there were many available this summer but it was really down to phil + lb.

phil said no.
lb said yes.

isiah would be out for buying out shandon and then wasting $30 mil on jerome. but that's spit in the buckets to these idiots.

PR nightmare?--we fired Don Nelson and hired JVG. I'm a long-term fan, I had season tickets for 14 years, my dad 10+ before me--what PR nightmare am I missing? A PR nightmare is what they created, not who they didn't hire. Scott Layden was a PR nightmare and Isiah has morphed into one when he redicules NY fans intelligence. I hope he doesn't plan to sell to muc popcorn in this area.
RIP Crushalot😞
djsunyc
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2/25/2006  1:06 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by djsunyc:

i think in an offseason where both phil AND lb were available, for the knicks to walk away without either would've been a PR nightmare...and that's all they really care about anyway.

after firing chaney (and still paying him), then the hiring AND firing of lenny (and still paying him), we had to get a real coach here. there were many available this summer but it was really down to phil + lb.

phil said no.
lb said yes.

isiah would be out for buying out shandon and then wasting $30 mil on jerome. but that's spit in the buckets to these idiots.

PR nightmare?--we fired Don Nelson and hired JVG. I'm a long-term fan, I had season tickets for 14 years, my dad 10+ before me--what PR nightmare am I missing? A PR nightmare is what they created, not who they didn't hire. Scott Layden was a PR nightmare and Isiah has morphed into one when he redicules NY fans intelligence. I hope he doesn't plan to sell to muc popcorn in this area.

if they hired ANYBODY else, and we struggled, they would be lynching this team for not getting phil or lb. (not like they're not lynching them now anyways). but the hiring of lb gave them no excuses in that department. that's why the media is coming after them HARD.
martin
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2/25/2006  1:12 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by djsunyc:

i think in an offseason where both phil AND lb were available, for the knicks to walk away without either would've been a PR nightmare...and that's all they really care about anyway.

after firing chaney (and still paying him), then the hiring AND firing of lenny (and still paying him), we had to get a real coach here. there were many available this summer but it was really down to phil + lb.

phil said no.
lb said yes.

isiah would be out for buying out shandon and then wasting $30 mil on jerome. but that's spit in the buckets to these idiots.

PR nightmare?--we fired Don Nelson and hired JVG. I'm a long-term fan, I had season tickets for 14 years, my dad 10+ before me--what PR nightmare am I missing? A PR nightmare is what they created, not who they didn't hire. Scott Layden was a PR nightmare and Isiah has morphed into one when he redicules NY fans intelligence. I hope he doesn't plan to sell to muc popcorn in this area.

if they hired ANYBODY else, and we struggled, they would be lynching this team for not getting phil or lb. (not like they're not lynching them now anyways). but the hiring of lb gave them no excuses in that department. that's why the media is coming after them HARD.

so generally speaking... damned if you do and damned if you dont. And in NY: Just damn for everything.
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holfresh
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2/25/2006  1:22 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by holfresh:


Does that mean you think Larry is not doing a good job?

It could mean that Larry brown and the players we have don't match.

But there is something in common between most of our players and Larry brown--they were all brought in by isiah and we cant get rid of them because they ar all signed to huge long term deals.



It is far more easier for the coach to adapt to his players...but he refuses....Isiah was putting together a running team for Herb before Larry got here...Larry knew the personnel before he accepted the job...The idea now that is is a flawed roster that he can't work with is insane..
When is Larry going to be help responsible....He made decisions here too...No?
TemujinKnick
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2/25/2006  1:24 PM
Did we think we were going to win a championship this year? Does it matter what our record is if we aren't clearly headed in the direction of being a serious contender? Did anyone really expect this year to be anything other than a messy reloading/retooling/rewhatever step? Yes, it has been a lot more messy than any of us expected.... but seriously, other than for the Bulls, what difference does that make?

Do we have more talent and more appealing trade assets than we did at this time last year... or when Isiah took over from Layden.

The process of making sausage is always going to be ugly. This isn't the way most of us would have gone about being ugly this year, but why are we getting so caught up in which flavor of ugly we are? Let's just get the damn thing over with and see where we are at the end of the summer. If we really aren't playing well at the end of the year, draft terribly, fail to use our stacked trade asset roster in a good way, and start off 0-10 next year, THEN it is time to FIRE ISIAH AND LB. The start of next season is when they have to be held accountable. It's when we will see what they have been working on. No excuses. No talk of it being new players, etc. Because if there are any changes between now and then, it will be in replacing the parts that don't fit on our team with players of a no bull**** top star quality. So at that point it's success or hit the road.

Until then just sit back for a bit and stay the hell out of the kitchen if you don't want to know what goes into your dinner.
OldFan
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2/25/2006  1:48 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by holfresh:


Does that mean you think Larry is not doing a good job?

It could mean that Larry brown and the players we have don't match.

But there is something in common between most of our players and Larry brown--they were all brought in by isiah and we cant get rid of them because they ar all signed to huge long term deals.



It is far more easier for the coach to adapt to his players...but he refuses....Isiah was putting together a running team for Herb before Larry got here...Larry knew the personnel before he accepted the job...The idea now that is is a flawed roster that he can't work with is insane..
When is Larry going to be help responsible....He made decisions here too...No?





The problem with this argument is the assumption that all the players are of the same mind and have skills that mesh so if you "adjust" to them it will all work. But there are 15 players and they don't definitely combine into a set of skills that fit any system. How do you know there are "adjustments" to be made the will work?
nykshaknbake
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2/25/2006  1:49 PM
By that logic the culpability moves on to Dolan for hiring Isiah. AND Isiah gets no blame just like Larry gets no blame in your book. And one might argue the blame goes to us for continuing to fund the team.
Posted by BRIGGS:

Who did the DD behind the scenes on LB? Was there thought process put in on what our roster make-up was, where we wanted to go, how we wanted to play?

The culpability ALWAYS starts with the decision makers. If you want to scream at LB, than you should put blame on the guy who brought him here. Hes the one throwing the money around, he controlled the situation.

If someone is willing to take the blame for Jerome James

maybe they should expand that to the hundreds of millions of dollars wasted on coaches who and players who dont fit or just sck.

Right or wrong? In the corporate world--Isiah would already be OUT.
holfresh
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2/25/2006  2:16 PM
Posted by OldFan:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by holfresh:


Does that mean you think Larry is not doing a good job?

It could mean that Larry brown and the players we have don't match.

But there is something in common between most of our players and Larry brown--they were all brought in by isiah and we cant get rid of them because they ar all signed to huge long term deals.



It is far more easier for the coach to adapt to his players...but he refuses....Isiah was putting together a running team for Herb before Larry got here...Larry knew the personnel before he accepted the job...The idea now that is is a flawed roster that he can't work with is insane..
When is Larry going to be help responsible....He made decisions here too...No?





The problem with this argument is the assumption that all the players are of the same mind and have skills that mesh so if you "adjust" to them it will all work. But there are 15 players and they don't definitely combine into a set of skills that fit any system. How do you know there are "adjustments" to be made the will work?




I can't agrue there, we don't know do we....But are we doing to try..They certainly look good last night in the few times they ran.....They got into trouble trying to force the ball into the post, making the 4th and 5th pass....Come on....
BigC
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2/25/2006  2:44 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by djsunyc:

i think in an offseason where both phil AND lb were available, for the knicks to walk away without either would've been a PR nightmare...and that's all they really care about anyway.

after firing chaney (and still paying him), then the hiring AND firing of lenny (and still paying him), we had to get a real coach here. there were many available this summer but it was really down to phil + lb.

phil said no.
lb said yes.

isiah would be out for buying out shandon and then wasting $30 mil on jerome. but that's spit in the buckets to these idiots.

PR nightmare?--we fired Don Nelson and hired JVG. I'm a long-term fan, I had season tickets for 14 years, my dad 10+ before me--what PR nightmare am I missing? A PR nightmare is what they created, not who they didn't hire. Scott Layden was a PR nightmare and Isiah has morphed into one when he redicules NY fans intelligence. I hope he doesn't plan to sell to muc popcorn in this area.

if they hired ANYBODY else, and we struggled, they would be lynching this team for not getting phil or lb. (not like they're not lynching them now anyways). but the hiring of lb gave them no excuses in that department. that's why the media is coming after them HARD.

so generally speaking... damned if you do and damned if you dont. And in NY: Just damn for everything.


Sad but so true!

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oohah
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2/25/2006  2:57 PM
after firing chaney (and still paying him), then the hiring AND firing of lenny (and still paying him), we had to get a real coach here. there were many available this summer but it was really down to phil + lb.

Lenny Wilkens is a real coach. Every bit as good as Brown. He would have done better with this squad.

***

People were saying the game has passed Wilkens by (Essentially quoting Vince Carter.). WHy aren't people saying the same of LB?

oohah

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martin
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2/25/2006  3:34 PM
Posted by oohah:
after firing chaney (and still paying him), then the hiring AND firing of lenny (and still paying him), we had to get a real coach here. there were many available this summer but it was really down to phil + lb.

Lenny Wilkens is a real coach. Every bit as good as Brown. He would have done better with this squad.

***

People were saying the game has passed Wilkens by (Essentially quoting Vince Carter.). WHy aren't people saying the same of LB?

oohah

the game may not have passed Lenny by but certainly he didn't have enough moxy to set things straight. YOu need a tough tough coach to change Marb's ways and refocus a whole NY team. Don't know the exacts, but Lenny didn't bring that.
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BRIGGS
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2/25/2006  3:38 PM
Posted by nykshaknbake:

By that logic the culpability moves on to Dolan for hiring Isiah. AND Isiah gets no blame just like Larry gets no blame in your book. And one might argue the blame goes to us for continuing to fund the team.
[quote]Posted by BRIGGS:

Who did the DD behind the scenes on LB? Was there thought process put in on what our roster make-up was, where we wanted to go, how we wanted to play?

The culpability ALWAYS starts with the decision makers. If you want to scream at LB, than you should put blame on the guy who brought him here. Hes the one throwing the money around, he controlled the situation.

If someone is willing to take the blame for Jerome James

maybe they should expand that to the hundreds of millions of dollars wasted on coaches who and players who dont fit or just sck.

Right or wrong? In the corporate world--Isiah would already be OUT.


Dolan is a kingpin for blame. But we can't do anything to Dolan, only Dolan's poppy or the board of CVC could touch him. Dolan relies heavily on Isiah and has to take the responsibility as an owner, but he only cares about his banjo. Nice to have a few billion $
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MsBklynStyle
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2/25/2006  3:54 PM
We might have been better off offering Flip the job.
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rojasmas
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2/25/2006  5:50 PM
Probably Dolan, and Isiah went along with it. He knew what is going to happen could happen. Meaning he (Isiah) is going to take the fall.
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Who made the decision to get Larry brown?
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