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BROWNIE, YOU'RE DOING A HECK OF A JOB.....
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simrud
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2/25/2006  1:22 PM
Guys we have now can't play defense, they just refuse or can't do it physically. If you don't play any kind of defense, and we don't, you need to be far superior to others offensively, and we are not. Our offense has glaring weaknesses, we have no shooters, so we can't spread the floor.

Our post options can't pass out of the double team and are turnover prone. Our PG's are not known for directing the flow of the offense that well, and are nto known for pushing the ball either. The best thign we have going for us is penetration by guards and midrange game from Rose and Frye. But we are not using that because teams know that, and play to stop that, daring us to take some outside shots or try to establish some post game. When we try to post, the offense comes to a grinding stop because Curry and Taylor can't deal with double teams. When we try to shoot from the otuside, nobody is good at that. We put up a bunch of bricks.

To top it all of, we can't guard anybody. We have no interior presence on the D, no shotblocking, no help. Not a single pereimter defender on the team, or a post defender for that matter.

No smart players, the bbal IQ is very very low. The majority of the players are dumb as bricks. Whether you like to amdit it or not, but guys like Craw, Marbury, Curry, etc, are all really dumb. Its easy to tell by the decisions they make on the court.

IT has put together a very talented, BUT badly mismatched team with a very low bball IQ. This group needs a floor general to guide them to their every step. They need plays called out for them every time because they don't now what to do, EVER. Brown has tried his best, but w/out a PG capable of handlign dummies, its hard.

Its not even Marbury's fault. If the roster was an average NBA roster when it came to IQ level, it would have been fine. But the personel we have requires special skills. We have a bunch of borderline retarded idiots on the team, and Marbury has to think for all of them on the floor. He can barely think for himself. So you get what you get. A godawful team.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
AUTOADVERT
holfresh
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2/25/2006  1:29 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by martin:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by martin:
Posted by nykshaknbake:

I don't think that question is relevant here. Larry ISN'T gonna make any of the players better. Heck, he's trying to get them all traded. He's publicly said they were useless in effect. They hate him and probably won't listen much to him anymore. It's not like the more you lose, the better your team gets. Quite the opposite.
Posted by martin:

Let me ask? Do you guys care about getting better or just winning a few more games?

I think he said and did the same in Philly and every other place he has been. Pretty much worked out in Philly and every other place he has been.



He didn't do it with the Nets,LA Clippers,SA Spurs....Indy was a good team but didn't win anything...They couldn't get by the Knicks...They had a really good team...

yeah, he didn't win it in every place that he has been but each has been MUCH better than before he got there.


Yeah if that is the case, How about what's important to all of us...THE KNICKS...

can we at least wait more than 4 months?



Yes, I'm all for that...but he has to adjust to the team...He has to stop pouting and start coaching....Get the players to play for him...They all hate him now....
holfresh
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2/25/2006  1:35 PM
Posted by simrud:

Guys we have now can't play defense, they just refuse or can't do it physically. If you don't play any kind of defense, and we don't, you need to be far superior to others offensively, and we are not. Our offense has glaring weaknesses, we have no shooters, so we can't spread the floor.

Our post options can't pass out of the double team and are turnover prone. Our PG's are not known for directing the flow of the offense that well, and are nto known for pushing the ball either. The best thign we have going for us is penetration by guards and midrange game from Rose and Frye. But we are not using that because teams know that, and play to stop that, daring us to take some outside shots or try to establish some post game. When we try to post, the offense comes to a grinding stop because Curry and Taylor can't deal with double teams. When we try to shoot from the otuside, nobody is good at that. We put up a bunch of bricks.

To top it all of, we can't guard anybody. We have no interior presence on the D, no shotblocking, no help. Not a single pereimter defender on the team, or a post defender for that matter.

No smart players, the bbal IQ is very very low. The majority of the players are dumb as bricks. Whether you like to amdit it or not, but guys like Craw, Marbury, Curry, etc, are all really dumb. Its easy to tell by the decisions they make on the court.

IT has put together a very talented, BUT badly mismatched team with a very low bball IQ. This group needs a floor general to guide them to their every step. They need plays called out for them every time because they don't now what to do, EVER. Brown has tried his best, but w/out a PG capable of handlign dummies, its hard.

Its not even Marbury's fault. If the roster was an average NBA roster when it came to IQ level, it would have been fine. But the personel we have requires special skills. We have a bunch of borderline retarded idiots on the team, and Marbury has to think for all of them on the floor. He can barely think for himself. So you get what you get. A godawful team.



Don't be an idiot......Marbs is very far from dumb......Marbs is smart enough to know that Larry system is not working with this team so Brown need to adjust.....The guys are not dumb...U keep saying that....So you are saying that the teams that win have a higher IQ....amazing....

the guys have more college than the average person in society...

It's a cop out...saying IQ is the problem....These guys are alot smarter then you think...
Larry needs to adjust to this team...I'm jsut tired of this dumb and low IQ nonsense...
I am sure they have more college than most of the posters here....
simrud
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2/25/2006  1:38 PM
Are you for real? You think athletes are in college becasue they are smart?

Bro you wever went to college? You know what they take? They are fing exercise science majors, and the assistant coaches do their HW for them anyways.

An thlete who is desitned for the pro's hardly ever takes a real class. They might as well be majoring in basketweaving.

Every easy class is filled real quick before actual studetns even get to register for it, because guess what, athletes get first dibs. And sure do eat up all the joke classes.

So once again, goign to college an a sports sholarship means nothing.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
holfresh
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2/25/2006  1:43 PM
Posted by simrud:

Are you for real? You think athletes are in college becasue they are smart?

Bro you wever went to college? You know what they take? They are fing exercise science majors, and the assistant coaches do their HW for them anyways.

An thlete who is desitned for the pro's hardly ever takes a real class. They might as well be majoring in basketweaving.

Every easy class is filled real quick before actual studetns even get to register for it, because guess what, athletes get first dibs. And sure do eat up all the joke classes.

So once again, goign to college an a sports sholarship means nothing.


Very true in alot of cases, these Knicks are not dumb....Why is it impossible to hold Larry's feet to the fire.....Why is everyone accountable but Larry?
martin
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2/25/2006  1:45 PM
so, guys who have never won before should make a coach adust to them? A coach who has just won about everywhere he has been?

Holy crap.
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holfresh
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2/25/2006  1:50 PM
Posted by martin:

so, guys who have never won before should make a coach adust to them? A coach who has just won about everywhere he has been?

Holy crap.

He has not won everywhere he has been...For all the time he has been in the NBA, he has won only one Championship and we treat him like a GOD....He didn't even build that team...They were a 50 win team for 2 seasons with Carlisle before he got there...Sheed was the difference...They was playing even better now that his restrictions are gone...How can you ignore that?
martin
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2/25/2006  1:54 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by martin:

so, guys who have never won before should make a coach adust to them? A coach who has just won about everywhere he has been?

Holy crap.

He has not won everywhere he has been...For all the time he has been in the NBA, he has won only one Championship and we treat him like a GOD....He didn't even build that team...They were a 50 win team for 2 seasons with Carlisle before he got there...Sheed was the difference...They was playing even better now that his restrictions are gone...How can you ignore that?

dude, how many times have I said he has not won a CHAMPIONSHIP for every team he has been on? He has made his team better (or the anology is "he has won") in every stop he has made. Is that clear?

Also, coaches around the league have said Brown has the best at what he does (if the track record is not good enough for you).
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JohnWallace44
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2/25/2006  2:00 PM
Posted by martin:

so, guys who have never won before should make a coach adust to them? A coach who has just won about everywhere he has been?

Holy crap.

Where do you see any sign that his coaching is making any positive difference? If they made Marbs player/coach would they lose by 30 instead of 20 every night?

Larry is the definition of an overrated coach right now.

Did Pat Riley try to make the Ewing led Knicks a "showtime" team because that's what worked in LA? No he made them a physical, bruising team. F Larry, seriously. Zeeke has put together run an gun players... so friggin' play run and gun you idiot!
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
martin
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2/25/2006  2:06 PM
Posted by JohnWallace44:
Posted by martin:

so, guys who have never won before should make a coach adust to them? A coach who has just won about everywhere he has been?

Holy crap.

Where do you see any sign that his coaching is making any positive difference? If they made Marbs player/coach would they lose by 30 instead of 20 every night?

Larry is the definition of an overrated coach right now.

Did Pat Riley try to make the Ewing led Knicks a "showtime" team because that's what worked in LA? No he made them a physical, bruising team. F Larry, seriously. Zeeke has put together run an gun players... so friggin' play run and gun you idiot!

so let's be clear... he was overrated in his first year in Philly, but better the next 4-5? And genius towards the end? If that's the story, I am OK with it.

I would say that the players have underperformed this year. Some VERY badly... is that a reflection directly back to the coach?

Let's see. After the 0-9 game in ORL Marbury played completely different. JC started to change his chucker ways and play a midrange game (he has deteriorated with the switch to PG). Nate couldn't find a basket early in the year and has calmed down some, but he HAS regressed. A ton of GMs have called about both Frye and Lee.

Tell me what you would have done different as a coach on an individual player level.
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holfresh
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2/25/2006  2:07 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by martin:

so, guys who have never won before should make a coach adust to them? A coach who has just won about everywhere he has been?

Holy crap.

He has not won everywhere he has been...For all the time he has been in the NBA, he has won only one Championship and we treat him like a GOD....He didn't even build that team...They were a 50 win team for 2 seasons with Carlisle before he got there...Sheed was the difference...They was playing even better now that his restrictions are gone...How can you ignore that?

dude, how many times have I said he has not won a CHAMPIONSHIP for every team he has been on? He has made his team better (or the anology is "he has won") in every stop he has made. Is that clear?

Also, coaches around the league have said Brown has the best at what he does (if the track record is not good enough for you).


You seems to be a smart guy, what do you think from wt hayou see....Are all these coaches right?
I'm really going over his record in my mind to be honest....Philly he was ok...the east was really bad when they got to the finals....I don't think that Byron Scott is a genius because he got to 2 Championships in a weak conference....He hijacked Detroit and Flip Sauders will prove they are a Championship team without Brown....

How does he get a pass?
holfresh
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2/25/2006  2:10 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by JohnWallace44:
Posted by martin:

so, guys who have never won before should make a coach adust to them? A coach who has just won about everywhere he has been?

Holy crap.

Where do you see any sign that his coaching is making any positive difference? If they made Marbs player/coach would they lose by 30 instead of 20 every night?

Larry is the definition of an overrated coach right now.

Did Pat Riley try to make the Ewing led Knicks a "showtime" team because that's what worked in LA? No he made them a physical, bruising team. F Larry, seriously. Zeeke has put together run an gun players... so friggin' play run and gun you idiot!

so let's be clear... he was overrated in his first year in Philly, but better the next 4-5? And genius towards the end? If that's the story, I am OK with it.

I would say that the players have underperformed this year. Some VERY badly... is that a reflection directly back to the coach?

Let's see. After the 0-9 game in ORL Marbury played completely different. JC started to change his chucker ways and play a midrange game (he has deteriorated with the switch to PG). Nate couldn't find a basket early in the year and has calmed down some, but he HAS regressed. A ton of GMs have called about both Frye and Lee.

Tell me what you would have done different as a coach on an individual player level.


What I would do differently is play to the strength of the team...Uptempo....This is not a grind it out, post them up team....They look better running...My highlight of the year is Jamal passing the ball over the head to Ariza for the slam....The team wants to play that way....With energy..
martin
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2/25/2006  2:13 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by martin:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by martin:

so, guys who have never won before should make a coach adust to them? A coach who has just won about everywhere he has been?

Holy crap.

He has not won everywhere he has been...For all the time he has been in the NBA, he has won only one Championship and we treat him like a GOD....He didn't even build that team...They were a 50 win team for 2 seasons with Carlisle before he got there...Sheed was the difference...They was playing even better now that his restrictions are gone...How can you ignore that?

dude, how many times have I said he has not won a CHAMPIONSHIP for every team he has been on? He has made his team better (or the anology is "he has won") in every stop he has made. Is that clear?

Also, coaches around the league have said Brown has the best at what he does (if the track record is not good enough for you).


You seems to be a smart guy, what do you think from wt hayou see....Are all these coaches right?
I'm really going over his record in my mind to be honest....Philly he was ok...the east was really bad when they got to the finals....I don't think that Byron Scott is a genius because he got to 2 Championships in a weak conference....He hijacked Detroit and Flip Sauders will prove they are a Championship team without Brown....

How does he get a pass?


I wouldn't give him a pass, but I sure would give him more than 4 months and just over a half a season before making good judgement. He is in it for the long term, so it makes sense that things are not instantly better.

Could Brown have won 5-7 more games at this point? Sure. Does it really matter if it would take away from the long term learning of the players? No, and that's my point. At every stop Larry has been his teams have first gotten worse, and then they have gotten MUCH better.

The organization also has to fix the makeup of the team to now fit their coach, and you cannot also do that in 5 months - and especially not before seeing what you have to work with.
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martin
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2/25/2006  2:14 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by martin:
Posted by JohnWallace44:
Posted by martin:

so, guys who have never won before should make a coach adust to them? A coach who has just won about everywhere he has been?

Holy crap.

Where do you see any sign that his coaching is making any positive difference? If they made Marbs player/coach would they lose by 30 instead of 20 every night?

Larry is the definition of an overrated coach right now.

Did Pat Riley try to make the Ewing led Knicks a "showtime" team because that's what worked in LA? No he made them a physical, bruising team. F Larry, seriously. Zeeke has put together run an gun players... so friggin' play run and gun you idiot!

so let's be clear... he was overrated in his first year in Philly, but better the next 4-5? And genius towards the end? If that's the story, I am OK with it.

I would say that the players have underperformed this year. Some VERY badly... is that a reflection directly back to the coach?

Let's see. After the 0-9 game in ORL Marbury played completely different. JC started to change his chucker ways and play a midrange game (he has deteriorated with the switch to PG). Nate couldn't find a basket early in the year and has calmed down some, but he HAS regressed. A ton of GMs have called about both Frye and Lee.

Tell me what you would have done different as a coach on an individual player level.


What I would do differently is play to the strength of the team...Uptempo....This is not a grind it out, post them up team....They look better running...My highlight of the year is Jamal passing the ball over the head to Ariza for the slam....The team wants to play that way....With energy..


fair enough, I think we both would like to see that and so would the players, but not at the detriment of long term development.
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oohah
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2/25/2006  2:25 PM
so, guys who have never won before should make a coach adust to them?

Yes! He should adjust, but noone should be 'making him', he should do it on his own. It is his job to do get the best from his players. This is not synonomous with playing slowdown, and playing broken down vets in front of outstanding athletes that need playing time to learn.

Could Brown have won 5-7 more games at this point? Sure. Does it really matter if it would take away from the long term learning of the players? No, and that's my point. At every stop Larry has been his teams have first gotten worse, and then they have gotten MUCH better.

Would have winning 5-7 more games taken away from the development of the players? Why?

I think that is the main fallacy, that Brown has this plan for the long-term good and everything he has done so far is in service of the future.

I don't see it, and nobody has explained it so far. As far as I can tell, he is walking all over the future of this team.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
holfresh
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2/25/2006  2:27 PM
Well Kenny Smith said it well yesterday...You can run and take good shots...You can play controlled up tempo...The grind out styles really suits a team like Detroit..Billips is not the fastest guy out there...Sheed is a terror in the half court both posting and knocking down the three...Rip is great running off screens...Indiana was the same way with Brown, Great half court teams....The Knicks are different, I'm not saying we shouldn't play half court..I think you need to be a half court team to win in the playoffs when it becomes a possession game....But the Knicks can do both and it gets Curry out of foul trouble and more court time...Lee would get more time as he can run the floor....

They can do this in spurts....I don't agree with Marbs to throw out the playbook...but he does have a point....Winning games will make the confidence grow and will make the players work harder...



[Edited by - holfresh on 02-25-2006 2:31 PM]
JohnWallace44
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2/25/2006  2:30 PM
[/quote]


What I would do differently is play to the strength of the team...Uptempo....This is not a grind it out, post them up team....They look better running...My highlight of the year is Jamal passing the ball over the head to Ariza for the slam....The team wants to play that way....With energy..


[/quote]

fair enough, I think we both would like to see that and so would the players, but not at the detriment of long term development.
[/quote]

Wait, so when the Suns or the Nets play uptempo... is that stunting their development?

I don't see the correlation between playing slow and playing well.

Look at Detroit exploding on offense now... think we might have been better off with Flip Saunders? The answer is yes.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
martin
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2/25/2006  2:38 PM
Posted by JohnWallace44:


What I would do differently is play to the strength of the team...Uptempo....This is not a grind it out, post them up team....They look better running...My highlight of the year is Jamal passing the ball over the head to Ariza for the slam....The team wants to play that way....With energy..


[/quote]

fair enough, I think we both would like to see that and so would the players, but not at the detriment of long term development.
[/quote]

Wait, so when the Suns or the Nets play uptempo... is that stunting their development?

I don't see the correlation between playing slow and playing well.

Look at Detroit exploding on offense now... think we might have been better off with Flip Saunders? The answer is yes.

[/quote]

Dallas and Phoenix have run for years, but it don't beat half court and D like Spurs and the Lakers before them. Name 1 running team that has won?

Even Dallas has gone away from the run and gun.
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holfresh
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2/25/2006  2:46 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by JohnWallace44:


What I would do differently is play to the strength of the team...Uptempo....This is not a grind it out, post them up team....They look better running...My highlight of the year is Jamal passing the ball over the head to Ariza for the slam....The team wants to play that way....With energy..


fair enough, I think we both would like to see that and so would the players, but not at the detriment of long term development.
[/quote]

Wait, so when the Suns or the Nets play uptempo... is that stunting their development?

I don't see the correlation between playing slow and playing well.

Look at Detroit exploding on offense now... think we might have been better off with Flip Saunders? The answer is yes.

[/quote]

Dallas and Phoenix have run for years, but it don't beat half court and D like Spurs and the Lakers before them. Name 1 running team that has won?

Even Dallas has gone away from the run and gun.
[/quote]



Magic Johnson Lakers...The Bulls were up-tempo,Pistons with Zeke was uptempo and half court which is what I think the Knicks can play....Can't match them on D tho....Boston was a lillte up tempo was well, they ran the break very well, but was also great in the half court, Houston was uptempo when they beat the Knicks with Cassell and Kenny, but played half court as well with the Dream....
Even Philly with Brown played a little uptempo with Iverson...

If you need more let me know...
oohah
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2/25/2006  2:48 PM
Dallas and Phoenix have run for years, but it don't beat half court and D like Spurs and the Lakers before them. Name 1 running team that has won?

The Lakers and Spurs did not win simply because they were great half court teams. They were excellent in both the half-court and the open floor. And they had the best players (Shaq, Duncan, Kobe.).

Look at San Antonio. Notice the way Parker pushes the ball? The Championship Lakers had Kobe out on the break quite frequently.

Championship teams are all-around teams.

But before you are a championship team, you need to win some games. And to do that you have to play to your strengths. Not every team can play a strict half-court style.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
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