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who would YOU start at SF?: Q or JRose?
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TMS
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2/24/2006  12:21 PM
wow, it only took you a week to finally come around.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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djsunyc
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2/24/2006  12:23 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

One thing I'm actually starting to like about this trade is we now have two consistent studs to break down the defense. If we can put them out on the floor with other shooters and athletes who are willing to give some effort on D, it will at the worst be fun to watch.

In thinking about the philosophy behind this trade, the money doesn't faze me (we are only going to add more salary this summer), what bothers me the most is pulling the trigger so early on the Jalen trade. That trade, while the pick was nice, killed our flexibility at the deadline and was a total panic move while Marbury was out. It resulted in 1 win over what, 11 games of Jalen? Now Jalen is spare part. Maybe his ball movement is a help, but I'm guessing he'll be looking for his own shot when he does get the ball.

One thing Larry REALLY has to instill to these guys is ball movement to make this work. Steph and Steve are going to get 15-20pts just being on the court, they need to make sure to get Frye, QRich, Curry and Jalen and (hopefully) DLee involved. It will be an interesting experiment to watch, and we really have nothing to lose at this point.

To me, there's not a ton of risk attached to this trade. We were killed by Craw's inconsistency all season, Francis will give us that consistency, plus things Craw could never do. If Marbury/Francis works, you have an excellent talent base with which to build on this summer. If you can add a healthy Kmart over the summer without giving up Frye, then the roster makes a lot more sense.

Just, the Rose trade is still frustrating and seems like a very expensive patch job that didn't patch a thing.

alot of players will have to sacrifice as well. right now, most of our roster is ineffective without the ball in their hands. how many of them will be content with that? how many are ok to do the dirty work, to rebound, to play defense, and just be a facilitator on offense rather than shooting the ball? that will determine alot.

it could work but there has to be ALOT of changes and ALOT of sacrifices made, by both the players and the coach. it will be interesting to see how it plays out.
bigbeast
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2/24/2006  12:26 PM
Maybe the Jalen trade was made with a huge trade in the summer in mind. AD could have gotten us Miles and Ratliff perhaps, but Rose and his expiring contract could be included to try and pry Garnett from Minny or J o'neal from Indy............
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
djsunyc
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2/24/2006  12:29 PM
Posted by bigbeast:

Maybe the Jalen trade was made with a huge trade in the summer in mind. AD could have gotten us Miles and Ratliff perhaps, but Rose and his expiring contract could be included to try and pry Garnett from Minny or J o'neal from Indy............


jalen rose + #1 for AD was available at 2:59pm yesterday. we made the deal way too early, especially KNOWING more teams get desperate towards the deadline.
bigbeast
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2/24/2006  12:32 PM
Rather have Garnett than Miles and Ratliff.........that was probably Isiahs thinking. Now whether he can pull it off is another issue.....
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
tomverve
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2/24/2006  12:41 PM
Regarding the Jalen trade, at worst what we did was to defer AD's expiring contract asset for one year in return for a first round pick and Rose's presence on the team. It might actually have given us more asset flexibility insofar as what we essentially did was to convert two max expiring contracts in one season to two max expiring contracts in two consecutive seasons. There may be a better trade opportunity than was available at this deadline that crops up next season.
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bigbeast
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2/24/2006  12:43 PM
Posted by tomverve:

Regarding the Jalen trade, at worst what we did was to defer AD's expiring contract asset for one year in return for a first round pick and Rose's presence on the team. It might actually have given us more asset flexibility insofar as what we essentially did was to convert two max expiring contracts in one season to two max expiring contracts in two consecutive seasons. There may be a better trade opportunity than was available at this deadline that crops up next season.

Perfect!

"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
crzymdups
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2/24/2006  1:13 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by crzymdups:

One thing I'm actually starting to like about this trade is we now have two consistent studs to break down the defense. If we can put them out on the floor with other shooters and athletes who are willing to give some effort on D, it will at the worst be fun to watch.

In thinking about the philosophy behind this trade, the money doesn't faze me (we are only going to add more salary this summer), what bothers me the most is pulling the trigger so early on the Jalen trade. That trade, while the pick was nice, killed our flexibility at the deadline and was a total panic move while Marbury was out. It resulted in 1 win over what, 11 games of Jalen? Now Jalen is spare part. Maybe his ball movement is a help, but I'm guessing he'll be looking for his own shot when he does get the ball.

One thing Larry REALLY has to instill to these guys is ball movement to make this work. Steph and Steve are going to get 15-20pts just being on the court, they need to make sure to get Frye, QRich, Curry and Jalen and (hopefully) DLee involved. It will be an interesting experiment to watch, and we really have nothing to lose at this point.

To me, there's not a ton of risk attached to this trade. We were killed by Craw's inconsistency all season, Francis will give us that consistency, plus things Craw could never do. If Marbury/Francis works, you have an excellent talent base with which to build on this summer. If you can add a healthy Kmart over the summer without giving up Frye, then the roster makes a lot more sense.

Just, the Rose trade is still frustrating and seems like a very expensive patch job that didn't patch a thing.

alot of players will have to sacrifice as well. right now, most of our roster is ineffective without the ball in their hands. how many of them will be content with that? how many are ok to do the dirty work, to rebound, to play defense, and just be a facilitator on offense rather than shooting the ball? that will determine alot.

it could work but there has to be ALOT of changes and ALOT of sacrifices made, by both the players and the coach. it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

I look at what Zeke is doing now, with my optimistic daily rationalization in place, as something similar to what Dallas did when they had a chance to get Antoine Walker and Antawn Jamison for free, basically. The guys made NO SENSE AT ALL on that team (of course they still won with Nash and Nowitzki), but Dallas knew this and was just accumulating talent to deal later in deals that made more sense. They ditched Walker for Jason Terry the next summer, which turned into a great move and turned Jamison into a high lotto pick (Devin Harris) and Jerry Stackhouse, which has turned out pretty good and helped them build a balanced team that has probably the best 5-man second unit in the league.

Zeke has aquired a lot of talent that makes no sense. But we have a crap load of assets to use to acquire any manner of pieces that actually fit this summer. So we are set to be able to make moves.

But one thing I don't really trust Zeke on anymore is the ability to build a roster that makes sense, plays D, rebounds and does the things Larry Brown wants. I don't know if I trust Larry to build it right either and that's a MAJOR problem.

Now would be a perfect time to fire Isiah and bring in that Colangelo kid or some other young bright GM or Russ Granik or Stu Jackson or someone from the NBA league office. We have a ton of assets this summer: use them right and we could be looking at the Eastern Conference Finals in a season or two. Use them wrong and it will be more of the same. I don't have faith in Zeke anymore to make the prudent decisions (outside of the draft).
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djsunyc
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2/24/2006  1:20 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by crzymdups:

One thing I'm actually starting to like about this trade is we now have two consistent studs to break down the defense. If we can put them out on the floor with other shooters and athletes who are willing to give some effort on D, it will at the worst be fun to watch.

In thinking about the philosophy behind this trade, the money doesn't faze me (we are only going to add more salary this summer), what bothers me the most is pulling the trigger so early on the Jalen trade. That trade, while the pick was nice, killed our flexibility at the deadline and was a total panic move while Marbury was out. It resulted in 1 win over what, 11 games of Jalen? Now Jalen is spare part. Maybe his ball movement is a help, but I'm guessing he'll be looking for his own shot when he does get the ball.

One thing Larry REALLY has to instill to these guys is ball movement to make this work. Steph and Steve are going to get 15-20pts just being on the court, they need to make sure to get Frye, QRich, Curry and Jalen and (hopefully) DLee involved. It will be an interesting experiment to watch, and we really have nothing to lose at this point.

To me, there's not a ton of risk attached to this trade. We were killed by Craw's inconsistency all season, Francis will give us that consistency, plus things Craw could never do. If Marbury/Francis works, you have an excellent talent base with which to build on this summer. If you can add a healthy Kmart over the summer without giving up Frye, then the roster makes a lot more sense.

Just, the Rose trade is still frustrating and seems like a very expensive patch job that didn't patch a thing.

alot of players will have to sacrifice as well. right now, most of our roster is ineffective without the ball in their hands. how many of them will be content with that? how many are ok to do the dirty work, to rebound, to play defense, and just be a facilitator on offense rather than shooting the ball? that will determine alot.

it could work but there has to be ALOT of changes and ALOT of sacrifices made, by both the players and the coach. it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

I look at what Zeke is doing now, with my optimistic daily rationalization in place, as something similar to what Dallas did when they had a chance to get Antoine Walker and Antawn Jamison for free, basically. The guys made NO SENSE AT ALL on that team (of course they still won with Nash and Nowitzki), but Dallas knew this and was just accumulating talent to deal later in deals that made more sense. They ditched Walker for Jason Terry the next summer, which turned into a great move and turned Jamison into a high lotto pick (Devin Harris) and Jerry Stackhouse, which has turned out pretty good and helped them build a balanced team that has probably the best 5-man second unit in the league.

Zeke has aquired a lot of talent that makes no sense. But we have a crap load of assets to use to acquire any manner of pieces that actually fit this summer. So we are set to be able to make moves.

But one thing I don't really trust Zeke on anymore is the ability to build a roster that makes sense, plays D, rebounds and does the things Larry Brown wants. I don't know if I trust Larry to build it right either and that's a MAJOR problem.

Now would be a perfect time to fire Isiah and bring in that Colangelo kid or some other young bright GM or Russ Granik or Stu Jackson or someone from the NBA league office. We have a ton of assets this summer: use them right and we could be looking at the Eastern Conference Finals in a season or two. Use them wrong and it will be more of the same. I don't have faith in Zeke anymore to make the prudent decisions (outside of the draft).

dallas is a good analogy. with a slight difference, toine and jamison weren't $15 mil a year players and didn't have all the off-the-court issues following them around. toine was a key component to nice playoff runs for boston. although jamison never won, there was never really any refusing to check into the game or near fights with teammates.

but there needs to be something done this summer to show that acquiring all these "pieces" mean something. if it's kg or j.o - then yeah, it looks like that was the plan (not the plan i would've done but a plan none-the-less). but if it turns out to be harrington or odom, then maybe the plan was slightly flawed.
MS
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2/24/2006  1:22 PM
I don't know if I like bringing in JO, he needs the ball and needs shot, Curry needs the ball, and our pg is going to want to shot.....

Lee, Frye, Francis, Marbury, Q, Nate, Craw they all run we need to run......Lee should be playing major minutes next to the backcourt with Frye, thats alot of rebounding

Marbury
Francis great rebounder
Lee good rebounded, doesn't need shots has a lot of enery that what we need out there
Frye good rebounder
Curry

Run the ball
TMS
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2/24/2006  2:02 PM
do you guys realize that a year ago, the mere mention of bringing in guys like KG & JO would have gotten you flamed like there was no tomorrow on this forum... all of a sudden we're talking about it as if it's a feasible possibility... i've been hard on Isiah for the JJ signing, but give him credit for attaining the assets necessary to allow for that to happen.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
djsunyc
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2/24/2006  2:14 PM
Posted by TMS:

do you guys realize that a year ago, the mere mention of bringing in guys like KG & JO would have gotten you flamed like there was no tomorrow on this forum... all of a sudden we're talking about it as if it's a feasible possibility... i've been hard on Isiah for the JJ signing, but give him credit for attaining the assets necessary to allow for that to happen.

and if 2 years ago, those that said not to do anything, just draft, and just let the contracts expire means we've could've signed him OUTRIGHT after next season were flamed also?
jaydh
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2/24/2006  2:17 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by TMS:

do you guys realize that a year ago, the mere mention of bringing in guys like KG & JO would have gotten you flamed like there was no tomorrow on this forum... all of a sudden we're talking about it as if it's a feasible possibility... i've been hard on Isiah for the JJ signing, but give him credit for attaining the assets necessary to allow for that to happen.

and if 2 years ago, those that said not to do anything, just draft, and just let the contracts expire means we've could've signed him OUTRIGHT after next season were flamed also?

garnett wasnt even entertaining leaving minny at that time.
TMS
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2/24/2006  2:17 PM
KG's signed through the end of 2008/09 season... as for those who advocated not doing anything & trying to get under the cap to sign a bigname FA, as long as Cablevision owns this franchise, it's a pipedream to begin with.
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BigC
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2/24/2006  2:25 PM
I would start Q if not I would go with Woods. I think Woods needs to get more playing time at the sf position.
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crzymdups
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2/24/2006  2:44 PM
Posted by TMS:

do you guys realize that a year ago, the mere mention of bringing in guys like KG & JO would have gotten you flamed like there was no tomorrow on this forum... all of a sudden we're talking about it as if it's a feasible possibility... i've been hard on Isiah for the JJ signing, but give him credit for attaining the assets necessary to allow for that to happen.

a big reason is that two years ago KG and JO weren't available. I give Isiah credit for bringing assets in. But he's had over two years at this point and the salary cap is an all-time league high. it needs to start making sense and winning SOON.
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TymeLessKnicks
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2/24/2006  3:14 PM
threads always seem to get off topic as the post pile on....

i would start jalen rose for the same reason we loved him the 1st time he set foot at msg in our uniform. HE MOVES THE BALL!!!! if q1 wants to start he must show that he is not a black hole...the black hole theory applies to mo taylor as well. but like i said JALEN ROSE STARTS!!!
Had enough Melo?
who would YOU start at SF?: Q or JRose?

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