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Bippity just has one thing to say
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Bippity10
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2/23/2006  7:28 PM
Instability. Another trade. Soon to be another firing. Soon to be more media circus attacking the coach and players. Another GM making panick trades to save his job, hoping one of the moves actually is a savior. One day we will figure out why we continue to be a mess. One day people will listen to Bip and promote stability and seeing plans through before calling for firings. One day we will realize that all panic moves are a result of saving a job or selling tickets and not a result of being a bad GM. One day everyone will listen to Bip and realize that stability is the only way this franchise will turn it around.

We have the coach. Get off his back. Build a team around his needs, suffer with the original losing and let him go with his vision. With the threat of firing I can already see the end result. LB will get sick of the impatients and constatn harping. He will quit. And once again we will go out and hire a new coach, with a new plan hoping he will be our savior. Then when his plan doesn't work we will go out and get a new GM with a new plan and hope he will be our savior. Then we will blame the star adn then go out and trade for a new star, and have to build a new team around him.

The instability and impatience is killing us and we can't admit it. It is the root of all our problems. This lack of stability just leads to these trades. We never give it more than half a season to see if it will work. This is killing us.
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djsunyc
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2/23/2006  7:35 PM
i ask you this bip, is the impatience and instability originating from the top with mr. dolan?

do you think that if a guy came in and said, look, i'm going to start shedding these contracts, i'm not trading draft picks, i'm going to USE them on players and we're going to rebuild it. it's gonna take a few years but that's what we're going to do.

come out and SAY THAT to the public. (and i think that's a big problem - this team is way too secretive and is always lying to it's fanbase. they are always to be seen when things are good, and then are nowhere to be found when it turns to sh t).

i think that if they are more open and candid to their fanbase, it will change. especially when the team is not winning.

pacers organization tell season ticket holders about moves before they send out a press release. kiki talks to season ticket holders regularly and informs them of what they're doing.

do you think that if they did that, the culture here would start to change?
tomverve
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2/23/2006  7:45 PM
Supposedly the coach wanted this. I definitely hear you about the stability, but it works all ways-- if LB picked a single starting lineup and stuck with it the whole season I reckon we'd be better than we are now.

I'm not calling for LB's head-- I'm not ready to turn on a HOF coach because of questionable results from a little more than half a season. Just sayin, we need stability at the level of player's roles in addition to who's here and who's not. Maybe having 4 starters (and god forbid, maybe all five?) pencilled in automatically each night will go some ways towards establishing that.

[Edited by - tomverve on 02-23-2006 7:47 PM]
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BasketballJones
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2/23/2006  8:50 PM
Blah blah blah. It's always the same story with the Knicks. Someday, this whole thing's gonna blow, then we'll see a change in attitude.

Until then...
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martin
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2/23/2006  9:14 PM
Bip talking in third person... must be takin' it to a new level.
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Allanfan20
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2/23/2006  9:28 PM
Posted by martin:

Bip talking in third person... must be takin' it to a new level.

He's been talking like that for years, but then again, the GREAT Allanfan20 shouldn't be talking.
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codeunknown
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2/23/2006  9:40 PM
Impatience is a persistent problem with Knick management. Francis and Marbury = poor perimeter shooting and defense.

That said, this was a fantastic trade. Easily, the biggest asset upgrade Isiah has accomplished. Develop Frye and Curry, coach this team to respectability by next year's deadline - then dump Frachise or Marbury for quality pieces that fit. A follow-up Francis/Marbury trade determines the next 4 years.
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Bippity10
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2/24/2006  6:49 PM
I actually don't mind the trade. Low risk. IF it doesn't work out so what we are awful to begin with. We gave up nothing and got a great player that can make us better or used in a future package.

Im not upset with the trade. I just hate the constant tirades by the media, crying by the fans and itchy trigger fingers of owners that won't ever let a GM and coach get on teh same page before we call for firings. Marbs and Francis haven't even played yet and it's called a failure. Summer trades are not made and we are calling for Zeke's head because of the salary cap. Even though we don't pay it. Half way through his FIRST SEASON we are calling for LB's firing.

The media in NY divides the players, fans, GM and coach's. It pits everyone against everyone. And we all just hop on the media hysteria. And yet another GM is forced to make trades in order to save his job. If this was Layden he would have traded all the youth. Not because he wanted to, but because he knew he would never survive long enough to see them develop. So why stick with thim. thus is NY basketball. Isiah please stay the course.

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Marv
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2/24/2006  6:51 PM
Your opinion is highly respected.

But please don't confuse the opinions of posters on this board with the media. They're two independent entities.
SlimPack
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2/24/2006  7:10 PM
Posted by codeunknown:

Impatience is a persistent problem with Knick management. Francis and Marbury = poor perimeter shooting and defense.

That said, this was a fantastic trade. Easily, the biggest asset upgrade Isiah has accomplished. Develop Frye and Curry, coach this team to respectability by next year's deadline - then dump Frachise or Marbury for quality pieces that fit. A follow-up Francis/Marbury trade determines the next 4 years.

you really think another team would give us quality peices for marbury or francis? like who?, becuase I would think that their contracts are too large, and they have too many personality issues for that.
but god, do I hope your right about larry coaching this team to respectabliity by next season, although, somehow I doubt he will.
SlimPack
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2/24/2006  7:18 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

I actually don't mind the trade. Low risk. IF it doesn't work out so what we are awful to begin with. We gave up nothing and got a great player that can make us better or used in a future package.

Im not upset with the trade. I just hate the constant tirades by the media, crying by the fans and itchy trigger fingers of owners that won't ever let a GM and coach get on teh same page before we call for firings. Marbs and Francis haven't even played yet and it's called a failure. Summer trades are not made and we are calling for Zeke's head because of the salary cap. Even though we don't pay it. Half way through his FIRST SEASON we are calling for LB's firing.

The media in NY divides the players, fans, GM and coach's. It pits everyone against everyone. And we all just hop on the media hysteria. And yet another GM is forced to make trades in order to save his job. If this was Layden he would have traded all the youth. Not because he wanted to, but because he knew he would never survive long enough to see them develop. So why stick with thim. thus is NY basketball. Isiah please stay the course.

well technically it makes more sense to see what larry brown can do next season rather than firing him now, since we're paying him all that money, and he has an impressive resume. although I think its pretty obvious that he's done a crappy job so far. also poeple dont want isiah to be fired becuase of the salary cap per se, but rather becuase the team has gotten progressively worse ever since he has taken over, and now we are no better than the bobcats, and slightly worse than the hawks, with the exception that, unlike them, we dont have our draft pick for this year, and at the rate things are going, we wont have it for next year either. however, even after having said that. I have decided that I will wait until the first 20 games, of the seasons after next season, before I officially, and actively, start calling for isiah's headz(if things havent gotten better by then that is). I think that's what knick fans should do, and probably will do, as much as enfuriating as it will probably be to wait that long. if you noticed, the "fire isiah" chants havent begun at the garden yet, so even though alot of fans dont like thomas, I dont think its gotten to the point where fans are seriously doing everything they possibly can to get him fired just yet, like they did with layden in his final year, so I dont think you have to worry about instability cuased by the fans at this point.


EDIT: actually now that I think about it, atlanta may have traded their no 1 pick in the joe jhonson deal. but what you get my point.

[Edited by - SlimPack on 02-24-2006 7:24 PM]

[Edited by - SlimPack on 02-24-2006 7:38 PM]

[Edited by - SlimPack on 02-24-2006 7:49 PM]
Bippity10
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2/27/2006  5:39 PM
What no one gets is that the names don't matter. The names constantly change and yet nothing in NY since Patrick has changed. We've had 50 new coach'es, built around Spree, Houston, Dice, Marbs and now Curry. All this in a couple seasons. WE are soon to be working on our 3rd GM.

Why does this keep happening. Why do we keep harping on the same problems and blaming the same people that just ahve different names. When are the knowledgeable NY fans going to stand up and demand a stable plan. Grab a proven winner of a coach(does not matter who just needs to be a proven winner like LB). Then grab a winner as a GM who can get on the same page as LB or whoever else. Then give them 3, 4, 5 years to turn this mess around without having to worry about being fired.

We fans seem to get some sort of satisfaction out of each firing. Feeling like we finally got the guy that did this to us and now we can turn it around. Yet we never do. Why? Because each time we fire someone we have to start over again. Each time we get a new GM or coach they have to get on the same page. We need a team that can build together. It's like we pit our coach's and GM's against each other and then watch them undermine each other. Each guy making a move to save his own arse. When will it end????? When will we get sick of it and realize it's not the star players' fault. It's not the coach's fault. It's not the GM's fault. It is the atmosphere of losing that has permeated the entire organization from top to bottom, forcing all involved to only think about themselves.

Those who have posted with me for a while no I've been saying this since the MSG days. GEt a GM and coach that are willing to work togehter. Let them make mistakes and learn from their mistakes. Let them build a team together. That's when you will see a title. Patience is the only way. Hoping for the next hero player, or hero GM or superstar coach just leaves us with the status quo.

It's all so clear to me.
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TMS
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2/27/2006  6:41 PM
seems to me Isiah is willing to work w/LB... they're trying to build a team together... is it really all that easy?
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martin
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2/27/2006  6:52 PM
Posted by TMS:

seems to me Isiah is willing to work w/LB... they're trying to build a team together... is it really all that easy?

they hate each other, but they are willing to work with one another.
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TMS
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2/27/2006  6:55 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by TMS:

seems to me Isiah is willing to work w/LB... they're trying to build a team together... is it really all that easy?

they hate each other, but they are willing to work with one another.


what makes you say that? why would LB hate the guy who signed him to that ridiculous contract? & all i've ever heard from Isiah about LB was praise & admiration.
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SlimPack
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2/27/2006  7:11 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

What no one gets is that the names don't matter. The names constantly change and yet nothing in NY since Patrick has changed. We've had 50 new coach'es, built around Spree, Houston, Dice, Marbs and now Curry. All this in a couple seasons. WE are soon to be working on our 3rd GM.

Why does this keep happening. Why do we keep harping on the same problems and blaming the same people that just ahve different names. When are the knowledgeable NY fans going to stand up and demand a stable plan. Grab a proven winner of a coach(does not matter who just needs to be a proven winner like LB). Then grab a winner as a GM who can get on the same page as LB or whoever else. Then give them 3, 4, 5 years to turn this mess around without having to worry about being fired.

We fans seem to get some sort of satisfaction out of each firing. Feeling like we finally got the guy that did this to us and now we can turn it around. Yet we never do. Why? Because each time we fire someone we have to start over again. Each time we get a new GM or coach they have to get on the same page. We need a team that can build together. It's like we pit our coach's and GM's against each other and then watch them undermine each other. Each guy making a move to save his own arse. When will it end????? When will we get sick of it and realize it's not the star players' fault. It's not the coach's fault. It's not the GM's fault. It is the atmosphere of losing that has permeated the entire organization from top to bottom, forcing all involved to only think about themselves.

Those who have posted with me for a while no I've been saying this since the MSG days. GEt a GM and coach that are willing to work togehter. Let them make mistakes and learn from their mistakes. Let them build a team together. That's when you will see a title. Patience is the only way. Hoping for the next hero player, or hero GM or superstar coach just leaves us with the status quo.

It's all so clear to me.

are you implying that fans shouldnt want Isiah or Larry to be fired? I know that stability is a factor but, come on here bibbity, Isiah has done a piss poor job so far as knicks GM, and shows no signs of changing his methods that have lead to this situation. isnt it possible, if not likely that the longer he is allowed to be GM the more and more the knicks will lose? doesnt it therefore makes sense to fire him before he does more harm? I mean its not like Isiah ever said that it would take a couple of seasons for the knicks to be a good team or anything, if he did than it would be different, but Thomas specifically said that he wants to win now, and place a lesser priority on developing our rooks, and his decision in his trades and coaching hirings further support this. and he has utterly failed in his attempt to do so. Why shouldnt he therefore be fired? what makes you think that this team will get better if Isiah continutes to be the GM? What I ask you? WHAT?

and also technically larry brown should be fired too, simply becuase he isnt the right coach for this roster. Ill admit that Larry Wins wherever he goes, but we dont have the type of players that larrys unique coaching style needs in order to be successful.

P.S. on a side note, I dont want Isiah to be fired right now, but rather at the end of next season , Im willing to see what zeke can do this offseason.

P.S.S. I agree with you that only through rebuilding through a coach, and Gm thats on the same page that have the patience to slowly develop its players is the only way we will see a championship, but its already been proven that Isiah and Larry arent that coach and GM.



[Edited by - slimpack on 02-27-2006 9:08 PM]
NYKniCksFan87
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2/27/2006  7:12 PM
seems like bippity had more than 1 thing to say
''We don't have the luxury to take anybody lightly,'' New York's Quentin Richardson said. ''We're not that good.''
BigRedDog
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2/27/2006  8:40 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by TMS:

seems to me Isiah is willing to work w/LB... they're trying to build a team together... is it really all that easy?

they hate each other, but they are willing to work with one another.

Martin why did you say that? All I have ever heard was admiration for each other. Both have egos but seem to be working together.

fishmike 9/27/2024 11:00 PM Ug I hate this. The idea of Towns is great until you see what a pussy he is. Jules is a dog. DD was a flamethrower locked up cheap for 3 more years. First Leon move I hate
martin
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2/27/2006  9:05 PM
Posted by BigRedDog:
Posted by martin:
Posted by TMS:

seems to me Isiah is willing to work w/LB... they're trying to build a team together... is it really all that easy?

they hate each other, but they are willing to work with one another.

Martin why did you say that? All I have ever heard was admiration for each other. Both have egos but seem to be working together.

cause I hear stuff from people around the organization.
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