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Mike Francesa is absolutely killing the knicks
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TMS
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2/23/2006  1:31 PM
how many times do franchise studs come along in the draft? the pick is gone... if you want to bash Isiah for giving it up in the Curry deal, knock yourself out... i won't argue with you... but this trade has nothing at all to do w/that... nor does any talk about "cap space" cuz we didn't have it to begin with, with or without this trade.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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wouldacouldashoulda
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2/23/2006  1:38 PM
Posted by TMS:

retool this team w/who exactly? a bunch of more overpaid role players like we already had? what bigname star was available out there for expiring contracts other than Francis? i'm more than fine w/criticizing Isiah for some of the boneheaded moves he's made, but this trade isn't one of them... anyone who wants to bash this one is just blowing hot air to hear themselves talk & pretend like they're experts on cap manipulation, blah blah blah... it was a good trade, end of story... Fatcessa needs to stick to baseball & the horses.
no, it was a bad trade. the last thing this team needs is another talented individual player. the best interest of the knicks was to let the contracts of Penny and AD expire off of the Knicks payroll, not take on more salary. sure, Steve Francis may be th ebest player available, but that doesn't mean getting him was the best situation for the Knicks.

anyone who wants to defend this trade is just blowing hot air to hear themselves talk & pretend like they're experts on team assembly, blah blah blah.

Elite
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2/23/2006  1:39 PM
i want them to have isiah on and say it to his face
crzymdups
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2/23/2006  1:40 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by crzymdups:

he's right. the knicks had a decent shot to retool this team with AD and Penny. They struck out and made their cap situation even less flexible.



How?

Earl Watson, Theo Ratliff, Darius Miles. Not sexy names that sell jerseys, but they play hard and play defense. Sure, they're overpaid, but so is Jalen.
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jaydh
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2/23/2006  1:41 PM
Posted by wouldacouldashoulda:
Posted by TMS:

retool this team w/who exactly? a bunch of more overpaid role players like we already had? what bigname star was available out there for expiring contracts other than Francis? i'm more than fine w/criticizing Isiah for some of the boneheaded moves he's made, but this trade isn't one of them... anyone who wants to bash this one is just blowing hot air to hear themselves talk & pretend like they're experts on cap manipulation, blah blah blah... it was a good trade, end of story... Fatcessa needs to stick to baseball & the horses.
no, it was a bad trade. the last thing this team needs is another talented individual player. the best interest of the knicks was to let the contracts of Penny and AD expire off of the Knicks payroll, not take on more salary. sure, Steve Francis may be th ebest player available, but that doesn't mean getting him was the best situation for the Knicks.

just curious, but what would be the point to just letting them expire? do you really think we want to get under the cap?
djsunyc
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2/23/2006  1:41 PM
Posted by TMS:

i don't buy any of those BS comparisons anyway... i'm looking at the talent we acquired & what we gave up... it's a good trade in my eyes... no need for me to analyze any further than that... we weren't getting any better w/Penny's expiring deal this year... i think this season needs to be all about setting ourselves up for a move in the offseason... forget the playoffs, it's not happening.

it doesn't matter what the plan is this offseason. whether they trade steph or trade FOR kg. it doesn't matter b/c francis is just not a good player to have on a team if you legitimately want to win.

he has not brought in one F CKIN defender. (on a side note, MS, just leave out a letter and then they don't show up as ****'s). not one F CKIN defender. i can't believe it. and then to go out and hire a coach who's entire philosophy is based on defense makes no sense.

we will NOT win operating like this. we haven't yet, and we WON'T. (and yes, i can see into the future)
TMS
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2/23/2006  1:42 PM
Posted by wouldacouldashoulda:

the last thing this team needs is another talented individual player.

quite possibly the dumbest thing ever said in the history of sports message boards... props.

[Edited by - TMS on 02-23-2006 1:42 PM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
crzymdups
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2/23/2006  1:42 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by TMS:

i don't buy any of those BS comparisons anyway... i'm looking at the talent we acquired & what we gave up... it's a good trade in my eyes... no need for me to analyze any further than that... we weren't getting any better w/Penny's expiring deal this year... i think this season needs to be all about setting ourselves up for a move in the offseason... forget the playoffs, it's not happening.

it doesn't matter what the plan is this offseason. whether they trade steph or trade FOR kg. it doesn't matter b/c francis is just not a good player to have on a team if you legitimately want to win.

he has not brought in one F CKIN defender. (on a side note, MS, just leave out a letter and then they don't show up as ****'s). not one F CKIN defender. i can't believe it. and then to go out and hire a coach who's entire philosophy is based on defense makes no sense.

we will NOT win operating like this. we haven't yet, and we WON'T. (and yes, i can see into the future)

the future be bleak.
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crzymdups
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2/23/2006  1:44 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by wouldacouldashoulda:

the last thing this team needs is another talented individual player.

quite possibly the dumbest thing ever said in the history of sports message boards... props.

[Edited by - TMS on 02-23-2006 1:42 PM]

why is that dumb? is Francis more talented than Najera? sure. But somehow Najera is always an important part of a winning team and Francis is always the centerpiece on a disappointing lotto team. how do people not understand this?

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holfresh
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2/23/2006  1:45 PM
Guys I have watch enough ball in my life to know the Knicks have talent...You have to play a style that suits your talent...Blame Isiah if you want because it's easy, but the job he has done in my opinion was amazing....If you took the team and salary cap he inherited and turned it into what we have now after, everyone here would sign on to it...everyone....so how can you now kill him.....


My only question for this team is Larry, I just scratch my head and think he is just burying this team....Maybe he wants to run the show...He knows New York will back him over Isiah and wants the job...But Larry is a better coach than this....It's all on his shoulders if you ask me....
GoNyGoNyGo
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2/23/2006  1:46 PM
I totally disagree with all of this.

I am still of the glass is half full mind set. There is something amiss on the team. I am guessing its the hatred for Marbury by everyone on the team. Something has to be holding this team back from gelling. That is the most obvious reason. Will Francis be any better? Probably not, but he might be.

I think IT is looking for gold and if he strikes it, then everyone will eat crow. If not, the talent he has accumulated is tradeable. You are telling me that in 2 years when Marb and Francis are entering the last year of their contract a team will not trade for them? They will.

I have faith in LB and his coaching staff to bring it together. If Curry and Frye are not defenders, make them defenders!
crzymdups
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2/23/2006  1:47 PM
Maybe Isiah should hire someone who is REALLY good at NBA LIVE 2006 to coach this team. Maybe that would work.
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jaydh
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2/23/2006  1:47 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by wouldacouldashoulda:

the last thing this team needs is another talented individual player.

quite possibly the dumbest thing ever said in the history of sports message boards... props.

[Edited by - TMS on 02-23-2006 1:42 PM]

why is that dumb? is Francis more talented than Najera? sure. But somehow Najera is always an important part of a winning team and Francis is always the centerpiece on a disappointing lotto team. how do people not understand this?


so francis has been in the lottery every year in his career? and since when is he the centerpiece here?
djsunyc
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2/23/2006  1:48 PM
Posted by holfresh:

Guys I have watch enough ball in my life to know the Knicks have talent...You have to play a style that suits your talent...Blame Isiah if you want because it's easy, but the job he has done in my opinion was amazing....If you took the team and salary cap he inherited and turned it into what we have now after, everyone here would sign on to it...everyone....so how can you now kill him.....

what style of play should this team use?
crzymdups
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2/23/2006  1:50 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by holfresh:

Guys I have watch enough ball in my life to know the Knicks have talent...You have to play a style that suits your talent...Blame Isiah if you want because it's easy, but the job he has done in my opinion was amazing....If you took the team and salary cap he inherited and turned it into what we have now after, everyone here would sign on to it...everyone....so how can you now kill him.....

what style of play should this team use?


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TMS
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2/23/2006  1:50 PM
so you wanted Isiah to trade Penny's expiring contract for the guys like Eduardo Najera, Earl Watson & let's say Theo Ratliff, all of whom have longterm big money deals, & all of whom won't carry this team to much more than a ~.500 record next year, would that have been more acceptable to you? haven't we been there & done that w/assembling teams to barely compete for a #8 seed? isn't it time you thought more on a grandscale & try to bring in the type of talent that can net you stud players down the road? do you think overpaid role players is the answer to our problems at this point? i sure don't... i don't care if they help us win 40 games... this team is never going to allow a youth movement to occur, so the next best option is to go this route, accumulate TALENT, & go from there.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Bonn1997
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2/23/2006  1:52 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by holfresh:

Guys I have watch enough ball in my life to know the Knicks have talent...You have to play a style that suits your talent...Blame Isiah if you want because it's easy, but the job he has done in my opinion was amazing....If you took the team and salary cap he inherited and turned it into what we have now after, everyone here would sign on to it...everyone....so how can you now kill him.....

what style of play should this team use?

On offense the first option should always be relentless attacking of the basket by Steph and Steve. Get FTs and get opponents big men in foul trouble. Feed Frye and Curry down low (or Frye and others on the perimeter as 2nd options or as double teams are drawn when Steph and Steve penetrate to the basket). On defense, I have no clue.
djsunyc
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2/23/2006  1:52 PM
Posted by TMS:

so you wanted Isiah to trade Penny's expiring contract for the guys like Eduardo Najera, Earl Watson & let's say Theo Ratliff, all of whom have longterm big money deals, & all of whom won't carry this team to much more than a ~.500 record next year, would that have been more acceptable to you? haven't we been there & done that w/assembling teams to barely compete for a #8 seed? isn't it time you thought more on a grandscale & try to bring in the type of talent that can net you stud players down the road? do you think overpaid role players is the answer to our problems at this point? i sure don't... i don't care if they help us win 40 games... this team is never going to allow a youth movement to occur, so the next best option is to go this route, accumulate TALENT, & go from there.

again, you are starphucking just like isiah.

it's those type of players that help BUILD A TEAM. not a collective of individual talents that just stand on the court holding their d cks in their hands waiting for the other guy to shoot the ball.
crzymdups
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2/23/2006  1:54 PM
Posted by TMS:

so you wanted Isiah to trade Penny's expiring contract for the guys like Eduardo Najera, Earl Watson & let's say Theo Ratliff, all of whom have longterm big money deals, & all of whom won't carry this team to much more than a ~.500 record next year, would that have been more acceptable to you? haven't we been there & done that w/assembling teams to barely compete for a #8 seed? isn't it time you thought more on a grandscale & try to bring in the type of talent that can net you stud players down the road? do you think overpaid role players is the answer to our problems at this point? i sure don't... i don't care if they help us win 40 games... this team is never going to allow a youth movement to occur, so the next best option is to go this route, accumulate TALENT, & go from there.

what's the point of losing with no picks?

look at Dallas, they START Adrian Griffin and Diop, two defensive role players. It seems like some people here, and certainly Isiah, want to build a fantasy roster that averages 20ppg at every position. The NBA doesn't work like that. You need role players who defend and a few guys who can fill it.

Now we have a starting lineup of Francis, Marbury, Curry, Rose, Frye, all guys who average around 15ppg but none of them are defensive stoppers or great rebounders or intangibles guys. These guys are useless if they don't score and they can't all score at once. It's a dumb way to build a team.

edit:

look at OUR one winnning stretch this season, we were starting Marbury, Curry and basically three guys who defend, rebound and force turnovers: DLee, AD and Nate. We had NO problem scoring then because Curry and Marbury create open shots for their teammates just by doing what they do. It makes no sense to add Francis to Marbury, Francis creates his own shots, he doesn't need Marbury pounding the ball and creating shots for him. No one needs Jalen in the corner while Marbury and Francis fight for the ball...

[Edited by - crzymdups on 02-23-2006 1:56 PM]
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holfresh
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2/23/2006  1:54 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by crzymdups:

he's right. the knicks had a decent shot to retool this team with AD and Penny. They struck out and made their cap situation even less flexible.



How?

Earl Watson, Theo Ratliff, Darius Miles. Not sexy names that sell jerseys, but they play hard and play defense. Sure, they're overpaid, but so is Jalen.



Cap situation less flexible???? The knicks were over the cap no matter what they did...Unless you say whn Isiah got here he should let all contracts expire then yeah...but the cap was 93 mil and they would have been over it until 08-09 I think....So what difference does it make, 93 mil or 123....what is the difference....
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Mike Francesa is absolutely killing the knicks
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