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A Simple Ten Point Plan
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misterearl
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2/18/2006  9:54 AM


10. Get Marbury to push the ball.

9. Empower Stephon, Jalen and Frye tri-captains. Steph is from Brooklyn, Frye's Grandad was a Tuskegee Airman and Jalen talks a lot.

8. Make a critical decision between Nate or Crawford as best backup point candidate. Deal the other with Penny's contract.

7. Isiah knows young talent. Clearing Penny's roster spot makes space for best point walking the NBDL streets. Draft the best guard available in June.

6. Jalen and Qyntel share shooting guard. Both can shoot. Qyntel swings to three on some nights. Qyntel works on his handle. Certain nights Quentin swings to off guard. We are just now starting to see his normal game. It was good enough for Phoenix, why not NYC?

5. Frye works on his handle and moves to three. With the rugged skill-set Quentin Richardson the position suddenly has a sense of variety and a dose of unpredictibility. That is a good thing.

4. Lee moves back to four and cameos at center in an uptempo game. He shares time with Malik Rose until he gets more muscles or a Ben Wallace clone shows up.

3. Curry and Jackie Butler hold down center, Jerome James goes directly to Duke University weight management center and is required to lose 15 pounds, get in Olympian condition, or else he gets dumped like yesterdays trash.

2. Larry Brown turns work into play. Insults into support. Orchestration into jazz.

1. Summer League is mandatory for the entire roster

once a knick always a knick
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Marv
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2/18/2006  9:59 AM
Posted by misterearl:


8. Make a critical decision between Nate or Crawford as best backup point candidate. Deal the other with Penny's contract.

Please don't deal Nate. He's gonna be a great asset when he's used right and he's gonna be a 4th Q game-winner like Ben Gordon and Earl Boykins were last year.

I'd be so happy to see Jamal's ass shipped out of here.

Let Penny expire! THis f'g spending spree is a disease!!!!!
misterearl
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2/18/2006  10:26 AM
Marv- what bout the other 9 points?
once a knick always a knick
Marv
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2/18/2006  12:02 PM
Posted by misterearl:



10. Get Marbury to push the ball.

9. Empower Stephon, Jalen and Frye tri-captains. Steph is from Brooklyn, Frye's Grandad was a Tuskegee Airman and Jalen talks a lot.

8. Make a critical decision between Nate or Crawford as best backup point candidate. Deal the other with Penny's contract.

7. Isiah knows young talent. Clearing Penny's roster spot makes space for best point walking the NBDL streets. Draft the best guard available in June.

6. Jalen and Qyntel share shooting guard. Both can shoot. Qyntel swings to three on some nights. Qyntel works on his handle. Certain nights Quentin swings to off guard. We are just now starting to see his normal game. It was good enough for Phoenix, why not NYC?

5. Frye works on his handle and moves to three. With the rugged skill-set Quentin Richardson the position suddenly has a sense of variety and a dose of unpredictibility. That is a good thing.

4. Lee moves back to four and cameos at center in an uptempo game. He shares time with Malik Rose until he gets more muscles or a Ben Wallace clone shows up.

3. Curry and Jackie Butler hold down center, Jerome James goes directly to Duke University weight management center and is required to lose 15 pounds, get in Olympian condition, or else he gets dumped like yesterdays trash.

2. Larry Brown turns work into play. Insults into support. Orchestration into jazz.

1. Summer League is mandatory for the entire roster

10. Like it.

9. Just Steph., Frye's way too young and not good enough of a player yet. Jalen's just a temporary stop-gap.

8. Already spoke eto.

7. No. Trading Penny just adds to the madness ($-wise). It's rotting this franchise from the inside.

6. I'm liking Q1 more and more. Q2's okay but nothing special. He may have alraeadly given the best he has to offer. I especially don't like him at 2. I'd rotate Q1, Craw and Nate at the 2.

5. Yes. I like Frye getting minutes at 3. He'll kill with his length inside and will get his shot off over everyone from outside. Yea he'll get toasted on D but that's already happening at the 4.

4. I don't wnat to see Lee at the 5. Rotate him between 3 and 4.

3. Keep JJ on the roster. Send him to Duke in the off-season.

2. Larry Brown gets a personality transplant.

1. Not mandatory. Isiah and Larry talk Steph into making a unilateral commitment to it and urging all lhis teammates to join him.
misterearl
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2/18/2006  12:48 PM
Okay Marv, I propose we submit our Position Paper Compromise For Review and Approvals

Do I hear a second?

10. Push The Ball

9. Steph as captain. Frye gets first dibs on the "C" jersey in two years.

8. Please don't deal Nate. He's gonna be a great asset when he's used right and he's gonna be a 4th Q game-winner like Ben Gordon and Earl Boykins were last year.

7. Penny's contract is allowed to expire

6. I'm liking Q1 more and more. Rotate Q1, Craw and Nate at the 2. (that's a LOT of cats to rotate Marv) Qyntel shoots nearly 50 per cent. How could he have peaked without the benefit of a training camp? The cat is still living out of suitcases.

5. Frye gets minutes at 3. He'll kill with his length inside and will get his shot off over everyone from outside. If he get toasted on D, that's wht you solidify the four spot with a rough and tumble shot-blocking compliment to David Lee - to be named later.

4. Lee rotates between 3 and 4. Then again if playing center at 6'9 was good enough for Dave Cowens...

3. Keep JJ on the roster. Send him to Duke in the off-season.

2. Larry Brown gets a personality transplant.

1. The Knicks enter three Summer League's. Steph is made assitant coach of one team. Kenny Smith an honorary coach of another. Paul Hewitt is invited to attend... just as an emergency precaution for Larry's wanderlust kicking in.

You can never have too many New York guys
once a knick always a knick
Knight
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2/18/2006  1:01 PM
1. You can't push the ball until you play good defense.

2. Steph should not be the captain of any team.

...That's too much disagreement already to move forward.
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
BRIGGS
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2/18/2006  1:15 PM
To have an effective up tempo team

A. You need more effective/effecient shooters
B. You need shot blocking/rebounding disruptive defenders to ignite fast breaks
C. Marbury is not really an effective push the ball fast break kind of guy--hes better in the halfcourt
D. The plan you outlined has way to many variables--ultimately you need to find 8-9 guys --- must cut the fat. Must identify the fat and try to remove it.
E.Larry Brown is not a good fit here. Paul Hewitt wouldve cost 40mm less and wouldve done a better job--no take backs.
F. Jerome James--who knows

If the plan is to basically to keep this thing together as is, sans a part or two--it wont work--in fact how do you sell it? There has to be guys they have ultimately identified as players who need new homes. If it was me, I would re-do much of the backcourt. If that meant taking Steve Fracis, I would do it. Even if Steve Francis is not a long term gig here, he gives you a major pawn to deal with for next year--if we can get rid of crawford--lets face it he needs to be gone-----and give Francis Marbury and Q-rich a good look over the last 30 soemthing--we'l be better for it. Its possible that NONE of the guards on this roster, including marbury may be here when /if we transform into a good team
RIP Crushalot😞
misterearl
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2/18/2006  1:31 PM
> 1. You can't push the ball until you play good defense.

Steve Nash sucks on defense yet he pushes the ball.

What gives?

once a knick always a knick
misterearl
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2/18/2006  1:43 PM
Briggs - no one used the term "up-tempo" whatever that means. We said "push the ball, which translates, for me, into dictating the offensive flow as opposed to taking what the defense gives you.

A. You need more effective/effecient shooters

Silly Briggs. Most guys at this level can hit an open shot. They are the best of the best. The question is whether you can create open shots from spots on the floor where players are comfortable.

B. You need shot blocking/rebounding disruptive defenders to ignite fast breaks

Who said anything about igniting fast breaks? C'mon dude, put down the babble you heard someone else say and think for yourself. Besides shot blocking is a rare commodity. The teams that are set in their personna can run off MADE baskets.

C. Marbury is not really an effective push the ball fast break kind of guy--hes better in the halfcourt

Don't agree, especially if you pair him with someone who knows what he's doing. Don't fall for the Marbury typecasting claptrap. Marbury is no Chris Paul but he gets to the rack at will so he must know something about driving the ball efectively

D. The plan you outlined has way to many variables--ultimately you need to find 8-9 guys --- must cut the fat. Must identify the fat and try to remove it.

Fat? Who you callin' fat?

E. Larry Brown is not a good fit here.

Fit? Larry Brown has been here all of five months. Damn. Can he get a year before you put him in a trash bin?

Besides

What does it matter what Paul Hewitt costs? You have no idea what kind of job Hewitt, Lenny, Herb or Don Chaney, for that mater, would do with this roster. It's pure speculation. And speculation ain't reality.

F. Jerome James--who knows

He goes to Duke, can't you read?

Sheesh
once a knick always a knick
Marv
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2/18/2006  1:55 PM
4. Lee rotates between 3 and 4. Then again if playing center at 6'9 was good enough for Dave Cowens...


Earl! If I didn't already know you're sensitive about your age, I'd insert a senility joke here! (J/K, work with me here).

I assume you well remember watching Dave Cowens play.

HE WAS A F'G ANIMAL!!!

Remember how wild and bull-like the short centers were then - Cowens, Unseld, Reed. Even Clifford Ray.

These guys were ready to throw you to the mat or elbow you in the throat on every f'g play! It was bliss, don't you remember?

Lee has a lot going for him, and I personally see him as being to able to play a Rodman-like role. I think he could become one of the best rebounders in the league. But Cowens was a totally different sort of animal, literally and figuratively.
Knight
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2/18/2006  2:05 PM
Posted by misterearl:

> 1. You can't push the ball until you play good defense.

Steve Nash sucks on defense yet he pushes the ball.

What gives?

Steve Nash is a special player. But anyways, did you hear what Jalen said about learning how to make multiple efforts? Our players first need to learn how to play team defense and be in the right positions before they learn how to initiate an uptempo offense off of that--you can't just "push the ball" without the right positioning and knowing what to do AFTER you block out and grab the board which is learning how to make multiple efforts.
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
BRIGGS
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2/18/2006  2:18 PM
Posted by misterearl:

Briggs - no one used the term "up-tempo" whatever that means. We said "push the ball, which translates, for me, into dictating the offensive flow as opposed to taking what the defense gives you.

A. You need more effective/effecient shooters

Silly Briggs. Most guys at this level can hit an open shot. They are the best of the best. The question is whether you can create open shots from spots on the floor where players are comfortable.

B. You need shot blocking/rebounding disruptive defenders to ignite fast breaks

Who said anything about igniting fast breaks? C'mon dude, put down the babble you heard someone else say and think for yourself. Besides shot blocking is a rare commodity. The teams that are set in their personna can run off MADE baskets.

C. Marbury is not really an effective push the ball fast break kind of guy--hes better in the halfcourt

Don't agree, especially if you pair him with someone who knows what he's doing. Don't fall for the Marbury typecasting claptrap. Marbury is no Chris Paul but he gets to the rack at will so he must know something about driving the ball efectively

D. The plan you outlined has way to many variables--ultimately you need to find 8-9 guys --- must cut the fat. Must identify the fat and try to remove it.

Fat? Who you callin' fat?

E. Larry Brown is not a good fit here.

Fit? Larry Brown has been here all of five months. Damn. Can he get a year before you put him in a trash bin?

Besides

What does it matter what Paul Hewitt costs? You have no idea what kind of job Hewitt, Lenny, Herb or Don Chaney, for that mater, would do with this roster. It's pure speculation. And speculation ain't reality.

F. Jerome James--who knows

He goes to Duke, can't you read?

Sheesh




Up-tempo=dictating a faster tempo of play-see Pheonix

You need more effective/effecient shooters--i don't know where i said anything about wide open jumpers--i said we need more effective/effecient shooters i.e guys who shoot in the 44-45% range instead of sub 40. Have you noticed what our guys shooting % are? On top of our guards collectively are in the lower end of the league in terms of defense--proof--go look it up they sck.

Shot blocking does ignite fast breaking and easier baskets + it puts fear of players going into the lane. Thats what i would like to see guys who can move up and down, but have a shot blocker in there with them. Pretty much what a Hilton Armstrong or josh Boone do for Uconn or Ben Wallace Tim Duncan does for those teams. Shot blocking could make up for the crp frontline defnse we have somewhat.

Fat--having to many variables--cutting the set rotation down to 9 guys to find cohesion. We have to much fat on the roster, thats why LB plays 90 different line-ups.

Jerome James--like I said who knows. he could go down to Duke and his hamstring hurts on day 2. I count him as 0 and when I see otherwise, then Ill be plesantly surprised.

You are making sound like the ingredients are here. I disagree. I think we dont have enough real ballers, way to much flash, not enough heart or desire
poor IQ+ fundamentals.
RIP Crushalot😞
Marv
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2/18/2006  2:30 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:


Up-tempo=dictating a faster tempo of play-see Pheonix

You need more effective/effecient shooters--i don't know where i said anything about wide open jumpers--i said we need more effective/effecient shooters i.e guys who shoot in the 44-45% range instead of sub 40. Have you noticed what our guys shooting % are? On top of our guards collectively are in the lower end of the league in terms of defense--proof--go look it up they sck.

Shot blocking does ignite fast breaking and easier baskets + it puts fear of players going into the lane. Thats what i would like to see guys who can move up and down, but have a shot blocker in there with them. Pretty much what a Hilton Armstrong or josh Boone do for Uconn or Ben Wallace Tim Duncan does for those teams. Shot blocking could make up for the crp frontline defnse we have somewhat.

Fat--having to many variables--cutting the set rotation down to 9 guys to find cohesion. We have to much fat on the roster, thats why LB plays 90 different line-ups.

Jerome James--like I said who knows. he could go down to Duke and his hamstring hurts on day 2. I count him as 0 and when I see otherwise, then Ill be plesantly surprised.

You are making sound like the ingredients are here. I disagree. I think we dont have enough real ballers, way to much flash, not enough heart or desire
poor IQ+ fundamentals.

Briggs, yoiur points are good, I can't argue with them.

But I'd love your opinion on this - what if we had had a diffrent coach in who had played to this team's strengths from day 1 and instilled a different level of motivation. Someone who tapped into the energy and fresh air the rookies initially brought in with them. Again, I keep getting Rick Pitino in mind, but it could be anyone who represents that.

Couldn't this have worked a lot better than it has? That long-lost 6-game streak seemed to feed off Marbury's particular skills and the energy of the rooks and even Curry. Craw played well off the bench.

I'm concerned that we're heading backward into more mediocre overpriced vets and I think that's the absolutely WRONG direction for this franchise.
Knight
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2/18/2006  2:34 PM
what if we had had a diffrent coach in who had played to this team's strengths from day 1 and instilled a different level of motivation. Someone who tapped into the energy and fresh air the rookies initially brought in with them.

I think a different point guard who acted like he loved playing for the Knicks and had fun playing would make more of a differece than a new coach.
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
Marv
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2/18/2006  2:40 PM
Posted by Knight:
what if we had had a diffrent coach in who had played to this team's strengths from day 1 and instilled a different level of motivation. Someone who tapped into the energy and fresh air the rookies initially brought in with them.

I think a different point guard who acted like he loved playing for the Knicks and had fun playing would make more of a differece than a new coach.

I think Marbs got there before his injury.
Knight
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2/18/2006  2:43 PM
Posted by Marv:
Posted by Knight:
what if we had had a diffrent coach in who had played to this team's strengths from day 1 and instilled a different level of motivation. Someone who tapped into the energy and fresh air the rookies initially brought in with them.

I think a different point guard who acted like he loved playing for the Knicks and had fun playing would make more of a differece than a new coach.

I think Marbs got there before his injury.

He was making some strides. I think Jalen will help take the burden off Marbury a little bit which will help. It was nice to see Marbury be the first one out to bump chests with Craw after that last shot.
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
Rich
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2/18/2006  2:51 PM
Did you read what Billips said in today's papers: Larry wants veterans. That desire will destroy the long range future of this team. Hiring him was a HUGE mistake.
Knight
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2/18/2006  3:07 PM
Posted by Rich:

Did you read what Billips said in today's papers: Larry wants veterans. That desire will destroy the long range future of this team. Hiring him was a HUGE mistake.

Larry didn't say anything, Billups said that Larry likes and needs veterans. Every team who wants to win needs veterans. Getting veterans on this team can be done without sacrificing our future.
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
PresIke
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2/18/2006  5:07 PM
Briggs' point that the need for a good shot blocker to help weak front-line defense (guards) is exactly what is missing from the Knicks. This is a major problem for the team because our guards are not good defenders, and then we don't have a real intimidator in the paint to help erase mistakes.

The Knicks don't necessarily need a Dekembe Mutombo in his prime kind of defender to improve (although that would be great) but someone like Hilton Armstrong (who seems to me like a young Ratliff) would help us SIGNIFICANTLY.

That's one of the reasons the Jerome James signing, in hindsight, seems odd with the Knicks having guys like like Frye and Curry who are not really good/consistent shot blockers or defenders. I say "in hindsight" because at the time he was signed, despite his inconsistent play over his career, James was meant to be our starting center when we had ZERO big guys (other than drafting Frye). But because we went for Curry James became even less valuable because he's only going to come in handy against slower Centers and one's who rely more on a post up game, like Yao Ming (who he did well against), Duncan, Shaq. That's the only value I really see in James, but most teams don't have big time centers. What seems to work well for several teams is to have an athletic big man who can block shots, like Camby, Amare or Dalembert (who's team isn't great, but that's not all his fault, and the Sixers are still better than us).

I REALLY HOPE we can get Hilton Armstrong with one of our picks because we DESPERATELY need a guy like him to help us fill a major hole, especially if we make no significant improvement in acquiring guards who play defense. With Marbury, who's gotten better but is still a so-so defender that is often inconsistent, and Crawford who has guys fly by him all of the time, what other practical answer in the near future (barring other moves made by Isiah or some miraculous turn around defensively by our guards, Frye and/or Curry and maybe Lee) do we have for solving our defensive inefficiencies?

[Edited by - PresIke on 02-18-2006 5:09 PM]
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
McK1
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2/18/2006  5:19 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:


E.Larry Brown is not a good fit here. Paul Hewitt wouldve cost 40mm less and wouldve done a better job--no take backs.

...and so would've Izzo!!!
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
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