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MSG Politics (and Marbury) Remain At The Core of This Streak
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misterearl
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2/14/2006  9:34 PM
Some things never change at The World's Most Famous Soap Opera

The night Dave Checketts wacked Ernie Grunfeld was a sad day indeed.That event set in motion the chain of events that led to Junior AND Senior Layden. The days of infighting at MSG are nothing new and date back to Red Holzman and GM Dick McGuire who fired him. It knida makes one miss the peaceful unproductive days of Al Bianchi and John McLeod.


Who will be the person to step in an assert his power?

The President or the Head Coach?

Interesting take on current MSG Politics >>>>


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/story/391249p-331874c.html

Brown knows this. So does Thomas.

History tells us Cablevision boss James Dolan puts no stock in public opinion. Even he could start paying attention if this blame game turns ugly, causing a fan backlash that has the Garden, on game night, resembling a cemetery at midnight.

Then, whoever is on the wrong end of a guilty verdict, whether it be Brown or Thomas, might find himself either in a very uncomfortable position or forced out.

Don't bet on Brown taking any kind of a fall.

By virtue of his position and circumstance the coach can control the message. Thomas? The combination of the sexual harassment suit filed against him and the Garden and his inclination to stay low profile (a Dolan rule all obedient Cablevision executives follow) has left him in a vulnerable position.

>>Thomas cannot fight back. Brown knows this.

Is that why Brown plays non-stop roulette with his lineups into the All-Star break?
once a knick always a knick
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Rich
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2/14/2006  9:43 PM
Although better than Layden, Ernie made a ton of bad moves too. He drafted poorly, and never was able to acquire a second star to compliment Ewing until he was past his prime.

In fact, the only reason Checketts and Grunfeld look good is that they inherited Ewing.

[Edited by - Rich on 02-14-2006 9:43 PM]
misterearl
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2/14/2006  9:47 PM
Rich - can you name a single GM that does not have a batch of transactions they would do-over?

In terms of grading productive upgrades against sidegrades or against those transactions that crash and burn, what do you consider a sucessful batting average for a GM?

.300?

.400?

.500?
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misterearl
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2/14/2006  9:48 PM
They ALL make bad moves.

Some just happen to have longer (Pete Babcoc in Atlanta for 10 years) to get it wrong.

[Edited by - MisterEarl on 02-14-2006 9:53 PM]
once a knick always a knick
Rich
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2/14/2006  9:53 PM
Posted by misterearl:

Rich - can you name a single GM that does not have a batch of transactions they would do-over?

In terms of grading productive upgrades against sidegrades or against those transactions that crash and burn, what do you consider a sucessful batting average for a GM?

.300?

.400?

.500?

Here's the way I look at it. Somehow, the Lakers have won 8 championsips since the Knicks last won one in '73. Drafting Ewing set them up to win at least one, if not more.

That's all I care about. If NY is really the "mecca," win a championship once a decade at least.
misterearl
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2/14/2006  9:59 PM
Rich - one only needs to look at the ownership in Los Angeles. Two words.

Jerry Buss.

We have Cablevision chaos and two Dolan's.

Consistency and a singular vision compared with drama and espionage.

We can all do that math.

>>Brown has been frank in his assessment of the Knicks' faults to a point that some players have begun to question the coach's judgment. When it was suggested to Rose that Brown is one of the finger-pointers, he said: "Right, right. Every one of us, top to bottom, is pointing fingers. Every one of us.

That's why, if I ruled the world, my first move is to place Bill Bradley in charge as the owner. Clyde is made an offer he can't refuse as President of Basketball Ops. I trust he can find a coach.

Maybe then we can live in peace



once a knick always a knick
Rich
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2/14/2006  10:02 PM
I'm looking at 33 years.

Gulf and Western, ITT, etc.
BRIGGS
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2/14/2006  10:07 PM
Posted by Rich:

[quote]Posted by misterearl:

Rich - can you name a single GM that does not have a batch of transactions they would do-over?

In terms of grading productive upgrades against sidegrades or against those transactions that crash and burn, what do you consider a sucessful batting average for a GM?

.300?

.400?

.500?

Here's the way I look at it. Somehow, the Lakers have won 8 championsips since the Knicks last won one in '73. Drafting Ewing set them up to win at least one, if not more.

That's all I care about. If NY is really the "mecca," win a championship once a decade at least.


I think a key to being a good GM in basketball is finding a style of play and finding players that fit it. Look at what Pheonix has done since they started this. SA Detroit the Knicks in the 90 the pacers etc....

Look at how Pat Riley SCRWD with his team br bringing in softies like walker and williams--he deviated from what they had--tried to get cute and now will pay.

the spurs have duncan the timberwolves have KG--are the players that far off in talent level? no but the spurs play a certain brand of basketball and EVERYONE they acquire fits in

same with the bulls its style of play you have to identify a style of play FIRST then acquire guys who fit it

example what T f does acquiring jerome james Mo taylor Nate Robinosn Trevor Ariza Q rich have in common--nothing its just acquiring fat


I think we should find guys with long arms, smart guys athletic guys who can play both ways--even if its through the draft and cultivate a style of play that empahasizes shot blocking defensive disruption and guys who can counter with fast breaks and a combination of inside outside play.

This is how Uconn plays--I like their style and its successful they directly recruit guys with long arms and athletiscm over guys who may be rated higher. they like long arms and athletiscm because it causes defenseive disruption and shot blocking causes easy offense.
RIP Crushalot😞
misterearl
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2/15/2006  7:13 AM
Briggs - what has Phoenix won? - or Chicago for that matter (without the amazing and hated Mister Jordan who was the Knicks major roadblock) ?

>>I think we should find guys with long arms, - Ariza, Qyntel, Jackie Butler

>>smart guys athletic guys who can play both ways - Frye, Lee, Jalen Rose

even if its through the draft and cultivate a style of play that empahasizes shot blocking defensive disruption - the draft means rookies, rookies take time to develop, what group of rookies come pre-packaged off the shelf as a cohesive unit?

>>and guys who can counter with fast breaks - we desperately need another lead guard, and a 6'6 - 6'7 off guard with a shot and excellent lateral speed, and swing forwards who can push the ball (Qyntel is a start)

>>and a combination of inside outside play - which is why youngsters Frye, Lee and Curry are near untouchable

Give it a moment for the next parts to be located by Tripucka, Isiah or the usher in section 404, the other scouts / and integrated by Larry who finally decides o his agenda, NOT the revolving door strategy he has used thus far

"Bad times don't last always"



once a knick always a knick
misterearl
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2/15/2006  8:39 AM
http://www.nj.com/knicks/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1139982429305540.xml&coll=1&thispage=2

For a 14-37 team, this is not surprising. Things are not right, and with all the losing, the blame game is starting to rev up.

It has already been publicly suggested that Brown and Thomas cannot work together, but it seems early to conclude that. But if they are at odds philosophically, there are three basic scenarios for how it would play out.

One, they figure it out and learn to coexist peacefully. The Knicks are expected to make trades before next week's deadline, and that could bring everyone together because Thomas seems dedicated to getting Brown players he wants. Already conciliation is in the air. Brown held a meeting with players at the team hotel Monday and encouraged everyone to stick together and not point fingers.

Plus, once Stephon Marbury comes back, the team should play better and win a couple of games, which will take a little pressure off and smooth over some of the friction.

A second possibility is that Brown comes to the conclusion he isn't the right man for this job after all and eventually leaves. Obviously, he has a history of doing that, but never after only one season. And that would also mean leaving roughly $40 million on the table, unless he gets a buyout.

And finally, Thomas could step down or be fired. It's possible, but owner James Dolan loves Thomas and recently stated that he supports his team president and approves of the direction in which he is taking the team.

But battle lines are being drawn, and now Brown is now starting to become the focus of criticism in the wake of the mounting defeats. The players, many of whom are more loyal to Thomas since he brought them in, are upset at being publicly criticized and are frustrated over the losing. They now feel free to make cracks about Brown in front of reporters.

once a knick always a knick
BasketballJones
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2/15/2006  8:45 AM
"Stick together guys, because there will soon be a bunch of trades sending many of you to other teams. Because I don't like coaching you. So I want you to really bond together and become a team"

[Edited by - BASKETBALLJONES on 02-15-2006 08:45]
https:// It's not so hard.
OAK
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2/15/2006  8:50 AM
Posted by misterearl:

what has Phoenix won?

LOL! misterearl = isiah's secret lover

Pheonix Suns = 100 times better than this current Knicks team.

but evereyone's entitled to his opinion, so it's okay that misterearl is in love with Isiah's horrible team. Some people like fat chicks, some love skinny ones. What can you say...
misterearl
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2/15/2006  8:57 AM
Oak - you funny. Now, would you care to make a point with some substance?

Perhaps, if you bothered to read and COMPREHEND you would realize the point of the article is that the Knicks are the product of leadership at all levels. Not simply Isiah.

We can wait until you gather your thoughts . It's quite possible you may stumble upon something of value to offer.

You think?

[Edited by - MisterEarl on 02-15-2006 09:00 AM]
once a knick always a knick
Nalod
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2/15/2006  8:58 AM
This is Dolans mess. He need not sell the team, just find the right guy to run it and not ruin his money.

That article is BS! Now its a story about what Steven A. Thinks? The dude runs a show, its topical and he takes a stand.

Its a big combo. Larry don't like young players and did not think he would have to rely on them. And they are not the sharpest crayons in the box.

Lets point fingers at both those facts.

Isiah's roster construction has not been that well thought out. he got the TYPE of players he wanted, which conflicts with Larrys TYPE of player, and it was not Strategicly implimented.

Players not in shape or injury prone this year. Eddy, James, and Richardson have been problematic.

Team was doing well until Marbs got hurt.

AnuchaGate, a big distraction.

It adds up to a mess.

THe blood thirst of keeping fans interest must be promoted to achieve ratings. This increases the tension factor.

Too bad nobody (fans, coaches, management and ownership) does not have the balls to be patient and set it right.
misterearl
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2/15/2006  9:02 AM
>>it was not Strategicly implemented

Nalod - how should any plan have been "strategically implemented" if Larry has only been here for 5 months?

Would you please define Strategicly implemented?



once a knick always a knick
BasketballJones
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2/15/2006  9:03 AM
Posted by Nalod:

This is Dolans mess. He need not sell the team, just find the right guy to run it and not ruin his money.

That article is BS! Now its a story about what Steven A. Thinks? The dude runs a show, its topical and he takes a stand.

Its a big combo. Larry don't like young players and did not think he would have to rely on them. And they are not the sharpest crayons in the box.

Lets point fingers at both those facts.

Isiah's roster construction has not been that well thought out. he got the TYPE of players he wanted, which conflicts with Larrys TYPE of player, and it was not Strategicly implimented.

Players not in shape or injury prone this year. Eddy, James, and Richardson have been problematic.

Team was doing well until Marbs got hurt.

AnuchaGate, a big distraction.

It adds up to a mess.

THe blood thirst of keeping fans interest must be promoted to achieve ratings. This increases the tension factor.

Too bad nobody (fans, coaches, management and ownership) does not have the balls to be patient and set it right.

"Nobody's right if everybody's wrong."
https:// It's not so hard.
realhiphop
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2/15/2006  10:34 AM
Great point made! This is my biggest problem with Isiah. He doesn't commit to a style of play before creating a team. That's why our team has no identity. We have to decide if we're going to be a half court team or transition team. Then we commit to getting players that fit within the system.
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Rich:

[quote]Posted by misterearl:

Rich - can you name a single GM that does not have a batch of transactions they would do-over?

In terms of grading productive upgrades against sidegrades or against those transactions that crash and burn, what do you consider a sucessful batting average for a GM?

.300?

.400?

.500?

Here's the way I look at it. Somehow, the Lakers have won 8 championsips since the Knicks last won one in '73. Drafting Ewing set them up to win at least one, if not more.

That's all I care about. If NY is really the "mecca," win a championship once a decade at least.


I think a key to being a good GM in basketball is finding a style of play and finding players that fit it. Look at what Pheonix has done since they started this. SA Detroit the Knicks in the 90 the pacers etc....

Look at how Pat Riley SCRWD with his team br bringing in softies like walker and williams--he deviated from what they had--tried to get cute and now will pay.

the spurs have duncan the timberwolves have KG--are the players that far off in talent level? no but the spurs play a certain brand of basketball and EVERYONE they acquire fits in

same with the bulls its style of play you have to identify a style of play FIRST then acquire guys who fit it

example what T f does acquiring jerome james Mo taylor Nate Robinosn Trevor Ariza Q rich have in common--nothing its just acquiring fat


I think we should find guys with long arms, smart guys athletic guys who can play both ways--even if its through the draft and cultivate a style of play that empahasizes shot blocking defensive disruption and guys who can counter with fast breaks and a combination of inside outside play.

This is how Uconn plays--I like their style and its successful they directly recruit guys with long arms and athletiscm over guys who may be rated higher. they like long arms and athletiscm because it causes defenseive disruption and shot blocking causes easy offense.
tkf
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2/15/2006  11:46 AM
Collin Cowherd made a funny point about the knicks today. He said the team resemebled his grandmothers attick. A bunch of stuff that seemed to make no sense. He said, you would go up there and find a beach ball, a picture of marlena Deitrich, a old whale bone, Motorcycle Helmet, just a bunch of mish mosh junk that never fit or ever made sense. These are your knicks.. A attic full of mish mosh junk..LOL.. WOW!

[Edited by - tkf on 02-15-2006 11:47 AM]
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Nalod
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2/15/2006  12:06 PM
Posted by tkf:

Collin Cowherd made a funny point about the knicks today. He said the team resemebled his grandmothers attick. A bunch of stuff that seemed to make no sense. He said, you would go up there and find a beach ball, a picture of marlena Deitrich, a old whale bone, Motorcycle Helmet, just a bunch of mish mosh junk that never fit or ever made sense. These are your knicks.. A attic full of mish mosh junk..LOL.. WOW!

[Edited by - tkf on 02-15-2006 11:47 AM]

Thats my point.

Stragically implimented = Strategery.

Isiah is collecting names. Adding Larry was another name.

But im under the impression the team would fair no better under Herb. The only diffeence is Herb would have lost the team by now.

The only thing that suprised me is just how bad this has been, not that is has been a mess. That I expected. Larry expected, Isiah tells us what we want to hear. Dolan is in LaLa land.
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