When you have a payroll of 90MM+ and are staring a 40MM dollar luxury tax payment at years end with a roster that everyone's knows is extremely flawed--you work from behind the eight ball.

This is my opinion. The only players that I believe the Knicks can potentialy move where it makes sense is Latrell Othella Kurt and Ward.

For all those people who have snubbed Latrell --I have a very hard time buying that there isn't a market for a 20 point scorer who plays hard on both ends of the floor. The stuff with PJ kind of reared it's head a bit with the late season missed practice fiasco[which shouldve been kept in house but Layden is just not a qualified General manager}which other managers have slyly brought up along with his age and that he is *slipping*. Well 32 is prime years IMO in basketball--- it's where some of your physical tools slightly erode that are replaced by basketball savvy i.e experience and players tend to become better shooters as their careers move along. I thought Latrell's jumper was the best Ive seen it last year and that his 40% shooting was more a circumstance of other teams keying on him and playing big minutes back to back and suffering with 3-13s on day 2.


Kurt Thomas --the most logical player to move simply we have a glut at one position and his play is worth more than his contract--although i view Kurt Thomas at this point as *selling high* or in other words he may have peaked and while he may stay at that level for a short time--he is also a player who could easily injure his ankle again and or drop off in play. the time to sell is when the player is viewed at his highest but the position is more than covered.


Othella a very good role player top notch role player although he is a step below Kurt but not much. I'm not trading both but one or the other has to go. we have to reduce the glut at three and I only see Othella moving in a trade that involves Latrell.

Ward still a very relaible back up tough nosed clutch player who has played in perphaps 100 playoff games. yes he may have slowe down a bit but he only has 2 years on his salary and would be a nice dump at the end of it. He will contribute on any playoff bound team and play well and is a greta hedge in case of injury. Comes off the books in 2004 at 6.5MM



Now we are moving into August. If we are going to change this roster in any way it wil in all probablities be this month to 6 weeks or nothing at all. I dont think it would be wise to move people close to camp or during camp. And for a few of you guys who tried to put F williams or Dice back into a trade you cant because they cant move until decemeber.


So what can we get back and what makes sense for the season? What are my goals through the trade?

Well I like one trade that I heard yesterday that involved Penny hardaway. Yes he is a gamble and a half but we are already playing that game. His contract runs just one year longer and is purported to be in good health again. We don't need Penny to play 40 mts. He can play 26-28 mts a night and takes some games off on the back to backs. But in return for this GAMBLE in which we are giving up a healthy 82 game playing tough nosed/heart player I want a hedge back. Its no mystery that Stefan and Penny cant co-exsist. The whole Penny in Pheonix has been a disater and Latrell we probably be a better fit. But what I want back is Joe Johnson and a lottery restricted 2003 first round pick[which becomes uncoditional in 2004]. I think we may have to throw in Lavor Postell to make the salaries match and perhaps Denvers second rounder. Now joe Johnson is 20 and i want to give him three or four years to develop. i think he is the kind of player who will be very good in three years and still contribute off the bench as a sub at small forward.


That trade is Penny Hardaway/Joe Johnson/2003 1 rounder for Latrell Sprewell/Lavor Postell and Denvers 2003 2nd rounder.

Trade puts players at need position PG and SF as well as hedges with a pick in the draft that most likely will be in the teens for a pick that will be 30.


Then a sign and trade with dallas for Wang Zhi Zhi a in 2003 and an uncoditional first rounder in 2006 for Kurt Thomas.

trade adds draft picks[or as i like to call them chips] and adresses the center position with size and skill
Im going to use my mid level exemption at the max for Donyell Marshal for 6 years with mutual opt outsd after three at a flat rate of 4.7mm
and utilize the 1.4 mm for 1 year on Doleac
Lineup

PG-Penny Hardaway
SG Allan Houston
SF-Donyell Marshall
PF-Antonio Mcdyess
C-Wang Zhi Zhi

10 man rotation
PG Charlie Ward
SG Shanden Andersen
SF Joe Johnson
PF-Othella Harrington/weatherspoon
C-Mike Doleac/Weatherspon
and for the rookie minimum I would sign loren woods Smush parker and AAron Mcghee to fill out the roster for the 15.

I have also obtained an additional first round pick in 2003 and 2006.

Hmm, nice work I guess. I just wonder, when is the last time you saw Penny play? He's been plagued by injuries for a long time and when he cam back into the lineup he expected to be the star of the show while tere were better players like Marion and Marbury. Penny might look nice but he can't play PG anymore, he just can't. He might if the Knicks swithched to the triangle or something but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

so this

>That trade is Penny Hardaway/Joe Johnson/2003 1 rounder for Latrell Sprewell/Lavor Postell and Denvers 2003 2nd rounder.

is too heavily in the suns favor. What you should think of with this trade as well is that coangelo the owner of the suns wants choir boys as players, remeber him shipping out Kidd and Clifford Robinson?

I love Joe Johnson though and with the drafting of Casey Jacobsen we might have a chance of getting him in a trade, I like him alot. Eventhough he's more a 6'9" SG then a SF.

Next trade though is very nice, been thinking about it but thought we might give up too much for wang but the inclusion of 2 picks makes up for that.

>Then a sign and trade with dallas for Wang Zhi Zhi a in 2003 and an unconditional first rounder in 2006 for Kurt Thomas.

So this trade gets a thumbs up, although it's a highly risky move and I doubt mr. ply-it-safe- layden would be bold enough to do it and whether he even cares about future considerations like draft picks.

>Im going to use my mid level exemption at the max for Donyell Marshal for 6 years with mutual opt outs after three at a flat rate of 4.7mm and utilize the 1.4 mm for 1 year on Doleac

Donyell aye? Well if you're going to spend the entire exception you might as well give it to Marshall, he sure gave the Kings fits during their 1st round encounter. 1 year for 1.4 to Doleac? I'll be surprised if he takes the million dollar exception for two years, but one year might be even better as teams have alot more money/cap space next year.

Oh and the midlevel is 4.55 mil this season, I'm not sure but I thought the maximum raise per year was 10 or 12.5 % and indeed signed to a maximum of 6 years.

Overall well thought out scenarios but the Suns won't cooperate but Dallas might since they've got the hots for KT.

Actually it's only 2 trades that are very possible. Well right now the Knicks have a tremendous payroll and they are just so thin it's mind boggling. Personally I wanted to move towards a youth movement starting with the draft but the reality is that the Knicks just aren't smart enough to do that. So I thought to myself--what is out there and how can we find some structural balance. Of course there is high risk that is associated but with high risk comes high reward. From all accounts Penny's knee has healed and I would not do the deal unless they included a serious hedge--first round pick+Joe Johnson [who at 6-9 played a good deal of point at Arkansas and IMo has a nice upside] i think clubs have been way to easy putting him back on the trading block because the kid would be a senior in college]these kinds of kids need 3-4 years to gell but this kid could produce now if needed.

Doing the wang Z move should be a very easy transaction. Again you are moving in a player who has peaked for a younger NEED player who has just began his move up. since we are giving Dallas a direct need i want to pawn a future first rounder of them. It could be 2008-2010 but it has to be unconditional. Knowing Cuban he would throw it in. I always like the idea of hedging a first rounder if I can get it. dallas should be good for the next few years but Im targeting their finished cycle. With Zhi zhi you get a high skilled 7-1 player who has shown the signs of moving his game effectively inside at 23 years old. He has what i would call by far the highest skill level of any center available higher than Oklawandi IMO. With weight training this kid could be a monster player in 2 years.

Wang ZhiZhi has not signed yet. He only played @ the Summer League
at GS to avoid an agreement he had with Dallas to go back to China. Incidentally, this came from the star telegram 2 days ago


"Wang Zhizhi's advisor, Simon Chan, said the Warriors, Knicks, Heat and Trail Blazers are among the teams interested in the Mavs' restricted free agent. In six games with the Warriors' summer-league team last month, Wang averaged 12.5 points and six rebounds in 28.2 minutes. That includes scoring 14 points and grabbing 14 rebounds in a game against the Grizzlies"


Briggs since you are so inclined to trade with Phoenix, and... u only want to do so unless their's a serious hedge, then don't target Joe Johnson. Joe Johnson at best will only be slightly better than Anderson in his prime.
However there's Amare Stoudamre. Since everyone else except us knicks fans perceive the team as a failiure franchise with no hopes of making the playoffs.. why don't we offer our picks to Phoenix instead?
A 1st rounder, 2 2nd rounders and Spree + filler for Stoudamire and Penny. Hey I'm just imitating your high risk, high reward theory.
Joe Johnson will develop into a role player at best but Stoudamire will definitely be an all star given 3-4 years in the league.

Thanks for posting Jerry West's comments from ESPN here again. I'm sure many of us have all see that thank you very much, hover u have not addressed the needs, ...need indeed but not "NEEDLESSLY"

Joe Schome Johnson is at best a role player who plays SG and Penny is washed up who cannot play pg any longer. Have u ever considered a roster with 4 pgs? That is Penny playing point in your books.

It could be the diference of making the playoffs when you lose Spree and I for one would not want that to happen next year.

Ok criticise me if u like but here is another idea. If they want to get rid of Penny why not give them Ward,Anderson and a second rounder for Penny? Ward's contract ends earlier so they get cap relief and they don't have issues on who should start since JJ is the better SG.
The catch here is Anderson who is a decent backup for Phoenix.
Penny will not be a dominant PG but he can bring the ball up much better than Spree or Houston. Spree Houston and Penny with no glut at the PG and Penny wil be able to guard slower 3's on the defensive end.

Posted by BRIGGS:

Put it this way I wouldnt do the deal unless Penny passed a very large battery of tests and I would still demand my hedge. I don't know if Phoenix would give up a first rounder next year but I do know that they want to get rid of Penny much more than we want to get rid of Spree. We want to trade Spree they want to dump penny who has one year longer on his contract. Unless they through me a nice 1st round hedge along with JJ and with complete medical clearance I don't do the deal. Penny only has to play 26-28 mts a night with Ward playing the other 20. And the other two moves are contigent on whether I can addres the point guard. Now today I have read that gary payton may have become available. Of course in the best interests of the club Im going to go after GP first and I think it is possible we could get something done with a 1st round pick next year and Latrell. they clearly want to rebuild but they dont want to pay Lewis nor will they give GP and extension. something is going to come to a head soon and the best opportunity to pick something up on the cheap is to be sitting at the door with cash in hand so to speak. But i dont think in evaulating it closely will we have something good enough to get GP. I think a team like Chicago can give a much better deal and have cap room to start so they dont have to match $-$. They could easily give up fizer Crawford and E Rob + a 1 to get GP and that WOULD make Chicago a playoff team this year IMO if they also brought on Rodney Rogers to play the 4 and bring Chandler off the bench.

You would be looking at
Curry
Rogers
rose
J wil
GP
Chandler
Baxter
hassell
mason
dag bagloric

Thats the problem I think the Knicks will continue to have. Teams that want to give up star players with no baggage want young players in return. We dont have that. So latrell if he goes will go for something that has baggage[in all probabilities]

good trade for both teams.

Couldn't agree with you more.