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For me one play sums up the mentality of our players
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Bippity10
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2/1/2006  3:25 PM
After two of the most humiliating performances of our season, they year, the decade, Nate gets a breakaway and goes in for the dunk. What does he do afterwards..........Jump up and down, flex and celebrate.

What is a coach supposed to do about this mentality?
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Marv
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2/1/2006  3:31 PM
He's supposed to utilize it, because it's the same mentality that's produced balls-out play, harrassing defense, hitting the hardwood for loose balls, driving fearlessly to the hoop, leading the team in rebounds at guard, etc. It was one of the driving forces in our rapidly-fading-from-memory 6 game stint of impersonating a real team.
djsunyc
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2/1/2006  3:31 PM
it's demonstration of nate's mentality and maturity (or lack thereof).

i wouldn't be surprised if he's benched friday even if he's one of the few guys that plays hard every second out there even if he's a bonehead from time to time.

what would you do?

[Edited by - djsunyc on 02-01-2006 3:31 PM]
Killa4luv
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2/1/2006  3:32 PM
he's been doing this all season. He is the type of player that is concerned more about himself than the team. But its a double-edged sword, because thats part of the reason he can come in off the bench and play well when we are down. He was a big part of many of our comebacks for that same reason. He just needs to stop celebrating when we are down, its selfish, immature, and shows poor allegiance to the team.

What is a coach supposed to do about this mentality?

Go out of your way to reprimand him. Call a timeout and bench his ass, even if it means you;ve get 4 pfs out there. We're getting blown out anyway.
djsunyc
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2/1/2006  3:34 PM
granted, he just found out he made the dunk contest and he's been trying to get one in game play all year at the garden.

timing was way off but man, he's just a kid...
tkf
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2/1/2006  3:35 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

After two of the most humiliating performances of our season, they year, the decade, Nate gets a breakaway and goes in for the dunk. What does he do afterwards..........Jump up and down, flex and celebrate.

What is a coach supposed to do about this mentality?

youth.. ah these youths... LB can bench him for that, or wait until he matures. I think he will do the latter. A lot of young players do stupid things, much worse than that... Remember when keyshawn Johnson scored his first NFL touchdown and took his helmet off and went crazy celebrating. The jets had a 1-15 season. Keyshawn didn't turn out too bad now did he?

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
oohah
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2/1/2006  3:44 PM
What is a coach supposed to do about this mentality?

Win more than 14 games out of 44. The coach get the W's and the L's, this is the pros, he cannot be exempt from blame.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Bippity10
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2/1/2006  3:49 PM
Yeah, I love Nate's enthusiasm and effort but to me that just shows a temporary loss of focus on what your goal is.........WINNING THE GAME. That has been our problem this year and is a mentality that oozes through the pores of our team. As soon as the other team makes a run at us we worry about our feelings, and woe ways us, and it's Marbs' fault or it's Larry's rotations. Our players need a crash course in keeping their focus upon the only thing that is important. Winning!!!!!

I would not bench Nate for this. But I would have a special 15-20 minute film session highlighting this moment and try to get a feel for how our players respond to it. To me it was very troubling.

He's young, but not to young to know about winning. Some of his idiotic play comes from his unbridled enthusiasm, which is fine. The rest comes from not understanding that winning comes before highlights. I don't care what age you are.
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Bippity10
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2/1/2006  3:51 PM
I am a showman and a talker and always loved playing to the crowd. But when I was getting my ass kicked I just wasn't in the mood to celebrate and flex. I had one thing on my mind, getting my team back in the f'in game. I didn't blame coach's, or teammates or anyone else. I blamed myself and I did something about it.
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oohah
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2/1/2006  4:12 PM
Yeah, I love Nate's enthusiasm and effort but to me that just shows a temporary loss of focus on what your goal is.........WINNING THE GAME. That has been our problem this year and is a mentality that oozes through the pores of our team. As soon as the other team makes a run at us we worry about our feelings, and woe ways us, and it's Marbs' fault or it's Larry's rotations. Our players need a crash course in keeping their focus upon the only thing that is important. Winning!!!!!

Bippity, not long ago, you were applauding the coach "teaching the players" rather than concentrating on winning. If that really is true, how do you expect the players to put the highest premium on winning?

How can we ask the players for consistency when there is nothing consistent for them to work with?

If LB had put the premium on winning rather than whatever he has been doing, the players would understand that EVERYTHING to do with the team is in the service of WINNING GAMES. At this point what are they playing for exactly? Pride? Pride doesn't matter to them anymore, because even if you show enormous pride like Lee, all of a sudden, you are riding the pine behind Rose inexplicably.

I don't excuse Robinson's theatrics on the wrong end of a blowout, he should not do that. But it really does not bother me much because the team did not try to win games for the first third of the season.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Nalod
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2/1/2006  4:13 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

After two of the most humiliating performances of our season, they year, the decade, Nate gets a breakaway and goes in for the dunk. What does he do afterwards..........Jump up and down, flex and celebrate.

What is a coach supposed to do about this mentality?
Bippity10
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2/1/2006  4:18 PM
You cannot reward guys for inconsistent effort. End of story. After watching last two games who should be gettin consistent minutes??????????? The effort comes first, consistent minutes comes next. Enough excuses.

Qyntel has been playing great and his minutes are mirroring this. Marbs gets consistent minutes for a reason. The rest of this line-up would get the same rewards the moment they play like they want the rewards. Until then, I applaud Larry for not coaching to save his job like Don Chaney and Lenny and Herb did. Lessons first, minutes second.

If this was a team of guys that proved in the past that they know how to win and play hard every night I would be right there with you. But this is a line-up of guys that have never given consistent effort and is fall back on their bad habits everytime they get minutes. They need to get rid of these habits. If not there are two alternatives being traded or receiving inconsistent minutes. You cannot reward quiiting and lack of pride with a set rotation.

Effort has nothing to do with rotations. NOthing!!!!! It has to do with pride.
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oohah
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2/1/2006  4:52 PM
Bippity, you are now contradicting yourself in the same post:

You cannot reward guys for inconsistent effort. End of story. After watching last two games who should be gettin consistent minutes??????????? The effort comes first, consistent minutes comes next. Enough excuses.

Robinson, Lee, and Frye play balls to the wall more than any of the other players on the Knicks. They did it in preseason, they did it during the inconsistent rotations during first third of the season, I have never seen those three dog it in any way.

Effort has nothing to do with rotations. NOthing!!!!! It has to do with pride.

The preceding quote contradicts the first. Not long ago, you were saying they would play when the learn to play the right way. Now it is when the give enough effort, no, when they play with pride.

The fact is, to absolve LB from responsibility requires contradiction, because his game plan has contradicted itself from game to game.

Pride, effort, and quality of play obviously have little to nothing to do with who gets minutes this year.

Enough excuses? If the players don't deserve excuses, then neither does the coach. He has done a bad job this year, time to admit it.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
misterearl
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2/1/2006  4:57 PM
Bipp - I'd love to see Qyntel at the two guard.

Marbury is injured and should be shut down until he heals. Expecet a CBA guard to be rought in at any minute.

Lee starts at three. Frye at four with Mo at backup. Curry at five. Jackie Butler is sixth man.

Extra laps for everyone.

Hell, I'm even taking extra laps.
once a knick always a knick
Bippity10
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2/1/2006  5:46 PM
Posted by oohah:

Bippity, you are now contradicting yourself in the same post:

You cannot reward guys for inconsistent effort. End of story. After watching last two games who should be gettin consistent minutes??????????? The effort comes first, consistent minutes comes next. Enough excuses.

Robinson, Lee, and Frye play balls to the wall more than any of the other players on the Knicks. They did it in preseason, they did it during the inconsistent rotations during first third of the season, I have never seen those three dog it in any way.

Effort has nothing to do with rotations. NOthing!!!!! It has to do with pride.

The preceding quote contradicts the first. Not long ago, you were saying they would play when the learn to play the right way. Now it is when the give enough effort, no, when they play with pride.

The fact is, to absolve LB from responsibility requires contradiction, because his game plan has contradicted itself from game to game.

Pride, effort, and quality of play obviously have little to nothing to do with who gets minutes this year.

Enough excuses? If the players don't deserve excuses, then neither does the coach. He has done a bad job this year, time to admit it.

oohah


I'm not contradicting myself I am contradicting you. My points are consistent. Dave's play has been inconsistent. Channing's effort on defense has been pathetic at times. Both displayed a lack of confidence during Marb's absence. Nate has been reminded several times not to take his draft status for granted. This was done publically and was done for a reason. And Nate has not learned the difference between a solid game winning play and a highlight reel dunk attempt. Until they do, nothing changes. Some of these guys would not see a minute on a better team. Taht being the case they should not be rewarded just becasue they are on a bad team. I do not absolve the rookies anymore than the vets. They have played harder but in certain areas of necessity such as defense, rebounding, and limiting horrible turnovers they are just as guilty if not more so than anyone. Not all rookies need to make some of the assinine mistakes these guys make on a night in and night out basis.
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Bippity10
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2/1/2006  5:50 PM
Okay I don't have a chance to re-iterate every point I am trying to make everytime I post. So since you remember them anyway you should not need me to re-iterate them. There is no contradiction in my words. My message has stayed the same since day one. Let's sum it up this way.

Consistent minutes can be gotten by playing basketball the right way which includes the following:

1.) Giving a nightly effort which means playing with pride(one in the same not a contradiction)

2.) Playing basketball the right way which means giving a nightly effort which means playing with pride(one in the same, not a contradiction).

I just hope that people will like me
Bippity10
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2/1/2006  5:54 PM
1.) On my basketball team, those players that are fragile and lose confidence every other night(although I may love them) they do not get consistent minutes because they will lose confidence when I need them most.

2.) Those that give me inconsistent effort get inconsistent minutes because I constantly have to adjust to when they decide to play hard.

3.) Those that make smart plays one quarter and boneheaded plays the next quarter get inconsistent minutes because I am constantly adjusting to when they decide to play with intelligence.

All those players in categories 1, 2 and 3 and fans that at one time were in categories 1, 2 and 3 always complain about minutes and things being unfair.

4.) Those players that play my way, play hard every night, no exactly where they stand, what their role is and what minutes they are going to get.

5.) Those players that play my way, play hard every night, hate the rest of the players on the team for dragging them down and creating such uncertainty from quarter to quarter.

All players in categories 4 and 5 and fans that used to be in categories 4 and 5 know that this is the only way and don't whine and complain.

If I cannot rely on you to do things the proper way, you cannot rely on getting minutes.

[Edited by - Bippity10 on 02-01-2006 6:00 PM]
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Bippity10
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2/1/2006  6:02 PM
Lastly, Eventually David and Channing and all our young guys will TAKE the minutes away from the vets. They are too good not to. The shame of it all is that they should have TAKEN the minutes away a long time ago!

On a side note: Could you imagine Bill Parcells watching his team lose by 9 touchdowns on back to back weeks rewarding all his guys with increased playing time???
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TemujinKnick
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2/1/2006  6:48 PM
I think Marv is right. If the rest of the team played as hard and high energy as Nate this team would be insane in a good way. Instead of driving the rest of us insane with rage and sadness.
oohah
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2/1/2006  7:27 PM
You cannot reward guys for inconsistent effort. End of story. After watching last two games who should be gettin consistent minutes??????????? The effort comes first, consistent minutes comes next. Enough excuses.

Effort has nothing to do with rotations. NOthing!!!!! It has to do with pride.

2.) Playing basketball the right way which means giving a nightly effort which means playing with pride(one in the same, not a contradiction).

No contradictions there...

I'd like to address the last point: So playing the right way = Playing with effort = playing with pride?

Can you "play the right way" and still make mistakes?

If so, then the rookies would have been starting and logging the majority of minutes from the get go. They have always played with "Pride" and "Effort". They have made mistakes, but they have not been lacking in pride or effort.

Obviously Pride and Effort are not the criteria for getting the majority of minutes. Otherwise, how do you explain Eddie Curry's always getting the playing time?

oohah






[Edited by - oohah on 02-01-2006 7:29 PM]
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
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