first off, i am as confused as all of you are about what's going on. lb is getting paid alot of money to right the ship but i ask you all this...at what point does the fault lie on the players? (fish talked about this before as well)

i mean it was chaney's fault.
then it was lenny's fault.
and now it's larry's.

do you really think a coach can make that big a difference in terms of our win/loss record? wasn't the purpose of this season to develop our young guys and win some games in the process? well, the wins aren't there...and none of our young guys are as good as we all thought but they are developing, no?

lb put out a lineup last night of steph, q1, rose, mo, and curry. and guess what, they were in the game till the half. so what happened in the 2nd half? same players but they collapsed. and no matter who they put in, they go down 30 points. 30 points. and that's not the first time this year.

do some of the players look scared? yes, i think they do and it's mostly the young guys. and if you hear the post games, lb doesn't blame them one bit. he calls out people that he feels are dogging it. why should eddy curry play when zaza gathers 5 consecutive offensive rebounds? why should nate robinson play if he throws a cross court pass at 5'8" tall?

but they have to man-up as well. i'm sick of seeing them scared. that's the only way you're going to know who's really the guys you can count on. lee is tough. he plays tough. he doesn't look scared. guys need to play like him. now i see why lb loves this kid. how many guys on this team can you honestly say play like david lee throughout the game? look no further as to why the lineups are constantly jumbled.

it's very frustrating seeing guys like malik rose and q1 marching out there but i think there's a reason why...and it'll probably be more clear after the deadline.

but regardless, how BAD are our players that if we play vets or rooks, we still get blown out?

so sure, fire lb and bring in an uptempo guy so we can play like golden state. we can be .500 and still be one of the worst defensive teams in the league. you know what that's called? fool's gold.

i'm not saying lb's hands are clean in this but man, how many coaches do we have to go through before we realize it's the guys putting on the uniforms and lacing up the sneakers?

even lb wants to go with the youngs guys already but he can't yet b/c how else do you justify the contracts? it's almost like he has to play the vets to justify isiah's moves. you have jerome james, malik rose, and q - three acquisitions over the past year, all making big $$$'s. how can you not play them? especially when this organization refuses to go full rebuild already?

i think we're going to see it differently after the deadline. unfortunately, the season will be gone by then (if it's not already) but i think that's what needed to happen to make everyone realize that the roster sucks and it's going to take some time to fix it. i was dissapointed when trev and sweets didn't get the major minutes nor were featured after the season was lost last year but i think this year is different. i think it's pretty clear we need to turn the page and i think they might actually do it.

the team is in the business of winning...but it's obvious that it's not in the cards. this is fate and this is what's supposed to happen. we're supposed to be this bad. it's the only way we get a kick in the ass as a franchise.

good post.

At the begining of the season the Knicks were excited cuz they basically filled in alot of holes in the roster. All the Knicks needed was a coach to lead them. Brown was that guy and we all were excited.

WTF happened?

The players are bad....this year. People talk "track records"....but all the players had great track records before this season. I blame Larry for this because he totally killed any confidence that this team had in the begining.

He made comments that Q could of had a breakout game reciently but they just didn't make "the extra pass" to find him. I recall on numerous occations where Q was going well and then Larry Brown took him out and benched him for the rest of the game or at least a quarter or two. Larry is just as much of a snake as people say Isiah is.

Larry keeps saying this team is like a college team.....how can you expect the players to win if you keep saying to the media that they belong in the NCAA?

What was the problem early on with Marbury's game? Brown had that dude all over the place. Marbury is a 9 year vet and was a walking 20/8.....Marbury is not a one of those good player on a bad team players....Marbs can play. How does anyone explain his play at the begining of the year?

How does anyone explain AD for almost the entire season? How does anyone explain Malik Rose ever taking the tag off his uniform? How can anyone explain Lee's DNP's this year?

The players suck......I will not deny that but......at the same time they are not this bad.

Larry has screwed this team up. The "track record" does not apply to this season. Larry has been doing stuff all year that I have never seen him do. I just don't understand it.

Larry said the team gave up? Well then step down!!! The team has not responded to him all year.....he has not played to the strength of these players at all.


Everything is screwed all to hell cuz Isiah already said Brown was untouchable.....so fire Isiah? I like the moves Isiah has made as the GM and I don't think it's his fault at all but if he was fired I'd make an effort to show up to the press conference to shake his hand and tell him how much i appreciated his effort.......but with the next GM......who are they gonna keep? What will they do? Will they trade the rookies? will they trade the vets? It will be turmoil again for another season.

Another Brown question.......What will it take? What will make Brown settle into a rotation? Starting line-up? game plan? How long will it be ok for him to continue to blast the players in the media? When will it be his fault?

What happens next? Who the hell knows? Something has got to give.....soon like before the trade deadline and up to the final hour of the deadline......either trade the vets to bring in some star power or trade marbs and begin the process of cutting cap. Either road would be a welcome one.

Posted by fishmike:

I dont even think its fools gold. I strongly doubt we would be .500 but thats just me.

The best coaching job I have seen so far is when Chaney won 37 games w/ Eisley, Ward, Spree, Houston, KT, Othella and Spoon

yup, and AFTER dice went down and spree was gone for the first 2 weeks of the season. we were in the playoff hunt till the final week of the season. i felt chaney rever really got enough credit for that.

Posted by EnySpree:

How does anyone explain AD for almost the entire season? How does anyone explain Malik Rose ever taking the tag off his uniform? How can anyone explain Lee's DNP's this year?

The players suck......I will not deny that but......at the same time they are not this bad.

do you think frye would be able to start games at the PF spot and not get into foul trouble 5 mins in? or get destroyed on the boards and on the defensive end? is that what he needs in his development right now?

lee was being groomed for the sf spot and got pt when they felt he was ready to play it. outside of the 2 or 3 game stretch, he has played minutes since the last week of last year.

what evidence do you have that the players are not this bad?

what has any of them shown over their career that they are winning players?

in fact, the worst players on this team have all been part of winning teams - q1 and rose.

what has crawford ever proven?
or marbury?
or eddy curry?

how good are they or how good do you think they are?

it's obvious that they're not as good as all of us thought...so they are what they are.

these guys are ONE WAY players. none of them play defense. none of them. how do you expect to win on a consistent basis? the more i think about it, if EVERYTHING clicked, we still wouldn't be that much better than a .500 team.

Posted by TMS:

you know it's a SAAAAD state of affairs when people are trying to bring up Don Chaney as an example of good coaching.

i will say this...if chaney was such a bad coach, and the team still won 37 games, then what was the reason? would they have more wins if they had another coach? if the answer to that is yes, then you're saying that roster was better than this one.

Marbs before he got hurt was playing great! A big turnaround!

Lee: Bonafied NBA player. And at a new position.

Frye: Top 3 rookie of the year thus far.

Jackie Blue: Making big progress and its shows.

Reezy: Getting shown what skills are needed to be in the league. He is being called out on his fundamentals.

Mo. T: Best season in a few years!

Qdog: Maybe our SF of the future?

Larry does have a positive footprint on this team.

THese questins still loom:

Curry: Seems like he is playing as well as last year. No camp and injuries are his excuse.
Nate: A 15 min novalty player.
Rose, AD, Penny: not an issue either way.
Qich: No nash, no value!

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by djsunyc:

Posted by fishmike:

I dont even think its fools gold. I strongly doubt we would be .500 but thats just me.

The best coaching job I have seen so far is when Chaney won 37 games w/ Eisley, Ward, Spree, Houston, KT, Othella and Spoon

yup, and AFTER dice went down and spree was gone for the first 2 weeks of the season. we were in the playoff hunt till the final week of the season. i felt chaney rever really got enough credit for that.

remember the core of that team won 50 games, went to the finals etc... they were just significantly under-sized without mcdyess once he was injured.

we dont have pros like houston sprewell thomas ward we have no players like that--what they didnt have in size and talent they had in heart will and iQ. a lot of those guys are old school type players

this is going to hurt... really bad. Ok... here goes.
We miss Kurt Thomas.

Posted by Nalod:

Marbs before he got hurt was playing great! A big turnaround!

Lee: Bonafied NBA player. And at a new position.

Frye: Top 3 rookie of the year thus far.

Jackie Blue: Making big progress and its shows.

Reezy: Getting shown what skills are needed to be in the league. He is being called out on his fundamentals.

Mo. T: Best season in a few years!

Qdog: Maybe our SF of the future?

Larry does have a positive footprint on this team.

THese questins still loom:

Curry: Seems like he is playing as well as last year. No camp and injuries are his excuse.
Nate: A 15 min novalty player.
Rose, AD, Penny: not an issue either way.
Qich: No nash, no value!

Totally agree on all points.

You left out Craw who is the true mystery of this team. I think Larry has to answer for what he's done to Craw's confidence. Benching him the first night of the season after starting him throughout preseason, he's a point guard, no a shooting guard, shoot it, pass it. Give Craw one role and he can be valuable. Give him too many and he is a mess.

Posted by crzymdups:

and, DJ, I think that look on the players' faces isn't fear, it's confusion. they have not had solid roles all season. we've set a record for different starting lineups, somewhat due to injury, but mostly due to Larry.

A coach is supposed to bring leadership, but also consistency and an identity. This team has one of the only low post centers in the league, one of the best pick and roll PGs in the league, one of the best shooting big men in the league and we have no identity. That and the lack of a consistent lineup are totally on Brown. I give him a pass on Q (injury, the tragedy with his bro) and somewhat Curry (until New Year's), but his destruction of Craw, his toying with Marbury until New Year's, his toying with Frye, Ariza and Lee, all that is on Brown.

i guess it really is on how you see it. it could be toying or it could be weeding out the weak. regardless, it's pretty apparent that lb doesn't care about w's and l's (like many said) and it's about finding his guys for next season.

Eny- you hit it on the head for the most part.

There is no way you can convince me that this roster is the third worse roster in the league (which is what there record is right now.) Were talking about LARRY BROWN here. The guy who most of the media calls the best coach in the league.
Great coaches are supposed to bring wins with them regardless of roster. I'm not saying they should be a legit playoff threat, but they shouldn't be this bad. George Karl walked into a horrible situation, and without any player movement turned that team around in half a season. Thats what good/great coaches are supposed to do. If this is not the case, we should have kept Herb as the coach.

Brown is a confidence killer. Not only does he call his players out in the media, but he jerks them in and out of the lineup. Young players are more fragile mentally as they try to feel their way through the league. Giving them incosistant minutes and calling them out in the media is somehting a veteran player can deal with but not younger players.

Hoew many times do you see, Lee, Ariza, Craw, Curry, Nate make a mistake and the first thing they do is look over at the bench. What do that team of coaches (I swear there are at least two coaches to every one player) do? Slam the play books on the floor, bury thier heads into thier hands, throw their hands up.....These players are walking on eggshells on the court. They are thinking too much and this is Larrys fault.

How about going with a consistant rotation for a change? How about making a statement and sticking with it instead of flip flopping?

Brown has been incosistant, so how do you expect the players to be consistant?