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Full blown rebuild......it's just prime time to do it
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BasketballJones
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1/20/2006  6:46 PM
Posted by jaydh:

how is curry/garnett/marbs not a good core? with that kind of team, good players would be willing to take pay cuts(signing the MLE) to play with them, just like payton and malone did with LA, payton&zo did with miami, and NVE&finley did with the spurs.

That could be a great core. I just think the Knicks are in the habit of continually changing, trading, moving players around trying to get someone better without ever giving the players a chance to gel. Not to make excuses, but we've got a whole new team this year, and a new coach. I had hoped it wouldn't be this bad, but I still think the Knicks should give it some more time.


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nykshaknbake
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1/21/2006  12:29 AM
In the same way we wouldn't be able to get a player of Marb's caliber w/ expirings, why should we give up one for the same? I fyou want to rebuild completly, which I dun see apoint of b/c we have such young players in key roles already, you would have to trade Marbs but we better at least be getting quality back or some pretty good draft picks. Trading Marbury for nothing will not get you a superstar or anyone near Marbs caliber if you're doing it for the imaginary cap space. You just get rid of Marbs period.
Posted by djsunyc:

i've been busy today at work and haven't really gotten a chance to make a long tired post but i think the knicks' brass need to make a serious decision about what EXACTLY they want to do with this team. and really, at the end of the day the choice should be one of two things:

1. go full rebuild and trade steph for deals that expire next year

OR

2. go and trade the expiring deals and some of the young kids for some veteran players to try to win WITH steph

going half assed on both attempts will lead to nothing more but frustration.
crzymdups
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1/21/2006  12:34 PM
You know what year we should have tanked and gone into full blown rebuilding? 2003. We were 20-42 and finished the season 10-10. Had we tanked the final 20 games and gotten a top five pick we would have gotten Bosh, Wade, Melo or Lebron. That's when we should have tanked, instead of trying to let Chaney save his job. Instead, Chaney saves his job and Layden gets us Mike Sweetcakes in the draft.

Trading Marbury is ridiculous without the picks in the next two years. If we trade Marbury, we will definitely be worse than Chicago next year and lose the pick. If we keep Marbury, we'll probably be better than Chicago. This team cannot afford to trade Marbury, yes we'd be awful but if you aren't going to get picks it makes no sense to be awful.

How about a little patience and we stop blaming Marbury for losses he didn't even play in?

[Edited by - crzymdups on 01-21-2006 12:34 PM]
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crzymdups
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1/21/2006  12:40 PM
Posted by EnySpree:


Marbs is wasting the better years of his career playing with the Knicks.....Marbs is not a dumb player, Marbs is what he is......he's 20 and 8. He needs to be on a team that is primed a ready for a Championship run. With the way the Knicks are going he will be 30 something before they actually start winning.

Steve Nash is 30 something and the Suns are winning. Why don't we just sit tight and let Marbury get healthy and then let the team start winning again?

or, wait, are we going to trade one of the biggest contracts in the league WHILE he's injured to get even less value?
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Marv
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1/21/2006  12:45 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

You know what year we should have tanked and gone into full blown rebuilding? 2003. We were 20-42 and finished the season 10-10. Had we tanked the final 20 games and gotten a top five pick we would have gotten Bosh, Wade, Melo or Lebron. That's when we should have tanked, instead of trying to let Chaney save his job. Instead, Chaney saves his job and Layden gets us Mike Sweetcakes in the draft.
[Edited by - crzymdups on 01-21-2006 12:34 PM]

Layden would've traded up to get Darko.
Killa4luv
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1/21/2006  1:03 PM
Posted by codeunknown:

I don't have time for a complete reply but - I would not trade Steph now - Fishmike mentioned the lost picks. Not only are we deprived of our picks but its likely that our top pick goes to a team that isn't even that bad - like Chicago or Utah. We can't help the league become more competitive to our detriment.

We are better off trading Marbury for expiring deals in two years at around summer 07 - when hopefully he's healthy and producing for a winning team. Even then, he will be only 30 years old and his value should not have plummeted too significantly -it may even increase with a winning squad and Brown's influence. At that point, the cap space yield would be immediate, we keep the pick in 08 and extra picks would be a bonus.
This makes the most sense if rebuild is the plan.

But you can always see what those expirings and some youngsters will get you too. These are the 2 roads to travel.
Bonn1997
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1/21/2006  1:25 PM
Posted by Marv:
Posted by crzymdups:

You know what year we should have tanked and gone into full blown rebuilding? 2003. We were 20-42 and finished the season 10-10. Had we tanked the final 20 games and gotten a top five pick we would have gotten Bosh, Wade, Melo or Lebron. That's when we should have tanked, instead of trying to let Chaney save his job. Instead, Chaney saves his job and Layden gets us Mike Sweetcakes in the draft.
[Edited by - crzymdups on 01-21-2006 12:34 PM]

Layden would've traded up to get Darko.
He probably would have. He wasn't into athletic guys like Bosh, Carmelo, Wade. He loved guys like Keith Van Horn. Or he might have taken Kaman ahead of Wade.



[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 01-21-2006 1:25 PM]
crzymdups
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1/21/2006  1:25 PM
Posted by Marv:
Posted by crzymdups:

You know what year we should have tanked and gone into full blown rebuilding? 2003. We were 20-42 and finished the season 10-10. Had we tanked the final 20 games and gotten a top five pick we would have gotten Bosh, Wade, Melo or Lebron. That's when we should have tanked, instead of trying to let Chaney save his job. Instead, Chaney saves his job and Layden gets us Mike Sweetcakes in the draft.
[Edited by - crzymdups on 01-21-2006 12:34 PM]

Layden would've traded up to get Darko.

sigh. i really can't argue that one.
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Killa4luv
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1/21/2006  1:42 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

Trading Marbury is ridiculous without the picks in the next two years. If we trade Marbury, we will definitely be worse than Chicago next year and lose the pick. If we keep Marbury, we'll probably be better than Chicago. This team cannot afford to trade Marbury, yes we'd be awful but if you aren't going to get picks it makes no sense to be awful.
bottom line truth. We can get better keeping:
Steph
Frye
Curry

Everyone else should be on the block.
SlimPack
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1/21/2006  1:53 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

yes we'd be awful but if you aren't going to get picks it makes no sense to be awful.

How about a little patience and we stop blaming Marbury for losses he didn't even play in?

[Edited by - crzymdups on 01-21-2006 12:34 PM]

aren't we awful without picks with marbury? oh well I guess your still right that we shouldnt trade him now nor this offseason becuase we could improve, but I still think marbury should be traded after next year as the start of some reasonable managing, but the only way thats going to happen is if isiah thomas gets fired by then.
codeunknown
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1/22/2006  10:01 AM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by codeunknown:

I don't have time for a complete reply but - I would not trade Steph now - Fishmike mentioned the lost picks. Not only are we deprived of our picks but its likely that our top pick goes to a team that isn't even that bad - like Chicago or Utah. We can't help the league become more competitive to our detriment.

We are better off trading Marbury for expiring deals in two years at around summer 07 - when hopefully he's healthy and producing for a winning team. Even then, he will be only 30 years old and his value should not have plummeted too significantly -it may even increase with a winning squad and Brown's influence. At that point, the cap space yield would be immediate, we keep the pick in 08 and extra picks would be a bonus.
This makes the most sense if rebuild is the plan.

But you can always see what those expirings and some youngsters will get you too. These are the 2 roads to travel.

This makes the most sense in any scenario. I've made no secret of the fact that I'd rather not trade our expiring contracts. Even if we do, however, and trading Marbury no longer affords us cap space in 08, we still need to reinvest Marbury's value at some point - preferably before his value degrades by 09 and forward. The term, "rebuild," is sort of a token description that doesn't really delineate a specific strategy - every team is looking to get better. Trading Marbury does not mean "starting over" in 2 years if Curry and co. have improved as expected. It merely means that we prevent a major asset from becoming obsolete.
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