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isiah complains about what he started with--how about Joe Dumars?
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Killa4luv
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1/20/2006  1:48 PM
Posted by Rich:

The Pistons turned the corner when they acquired Rasheed, who only was traded to Detroit instead of New York because Danny Ainge agreed to have the Celtics become part of a three way trade because he didn't want to see the Knicks get Rasheed. If they had, the conversation might be very different.

totally agree, and can't possibly image them being the team they are now without him. He is HUGE for them, on d especially.

if we got rasheed and then signed Curry, things would be mighty different around these parts.
AUTOADVERT
Bonn1997
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1/20/2006  1:50 PM
Posted by Nalod:


I really can live with this team the rest of the season.

The rookies are playing a lot, Eddie is still growing into his body head, and maybe Craw has pubic hair now and can start to get it more consistant. Nate I still think is a side show and I can live with him 15 min a game.

Rebuilding sucks, especially when your 27million more than the next highest payroll (Dallas Mavs).

This is it guys, Rebuilding NY style. Be patient, season is not even halfway over. And it ain't about this year.
Words of wisdom
Swishfm3
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1/20/2006  2:01 PM
Posted by Nalod:


The only thing I am more tired than the losing, and I am sick of it, is the whining and laying of blame after every set back!

thank you.

I like to think the moves Dumars has made has been more luck than anything

Grant Hill was a FA and wanted out of Detroit. Sign and trade deal with the Magic that brought in Atkins and Wallace. NOBODY predicted Wallace to be this good...I believe Det went out and got the best deal that was available at the time.


and RIP...I personally questioned this move when it was made because Stack had a pretty good season that year and RIP was struggling with JOrdan. Obviously, Detroit came out with a steal with this one...
islesfan
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1/20/2006  2:02 PM
Posted by Nalod:


I really can live with this team the rest of the season.

The rookies are playing a lot, Eddie is still growing into his body head, and maybe Craw has pubic hair now and can start to get it more consistant. Nate I still think is a side show and I can live with him 15 min a game.

Rebuilding sucks, especially when your 27million more than the next highest payroll (Dallas Mavs).

This is it guys, Rebuilding NY style. Be patient, season is not even halfway over. And it ain't about this year.

It wasn't about Isiah's first year. It wasn't about Isiah's second year. It's not about Isiah's third year. So which year is it about before we should expect results?

And what does "Rebuilding NY style" mean? That you just fly by the seat of your pants while spending ungodly amount of money on players whose previous teams didn't want them anymore and trading away as many #1 picks as the NBA will allow?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
holfresh
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1/20/2006  4:13 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

never had cap space, his roster was poor and Grant Hill forced his hand into a deal.

His use of the MLE

Chauncey Billups
Antonio Mcdyess
Mo Evans
trades
Rip
ben
weed

never took on a bad contract or gave away multiple unprotected picks

his drafting has been mediocre! although taking prince at 24 makes up for Rodney White and Darko to a great extent-- change the chemistry and the team may not be the same


If isiah goes through the Dumars school of nBA GMing, we'll be all right!
Are you guys serious...What part of being over the salary cap don't you understand....Did you see our roster to begin with...We had no tradable parts...only Kurt Thomas....He came here with a starting roster of Kurt Thomas, Keith Van Horn,Howard Eisley,Dekimbe Motumbo,Shandon Anderson...on the bench Othella Harrington,Micheal Doleac,Micheal Sweetney,Charlie Ward,Frank Williams,Travis Knight,Maceij Lampe,...hurt was Allan Houston and Antonio McDyss....93 million in salary...Please if you guys can, tell me what can anyone do with this roster and salary position that can turn this organization around in two years..Please note that 9 of these player probally will not be in the nba one year from now......Are you really looking at this from a realistic standpoint or just from a fan's point of view who has no appreciation of what you can or can't do given a salary and talent scenario....I mean,please tell me the moves he could have made that he didn't...tell me who we should have kept that we lost in a trade.....
BRIGGS
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1/20/2006  4:27 PM
Posted by holfresh:

[quote]Posted by BRIGGS:

never had cap space, his roster was poor and Grant Hill forced his hand into a deal.

His use of the MLE

Chauncey Billups
Antonio Mcdyess
Mo Evans
trades
Rip
ben
weed

never took on a bad contract or gave away multiple unprotected picks

his drafting has been mediocre! although taking prince at 24 makes up for Rodney White and Darko to a great extent-- change the chemistry and the team may not be the same


If isiah goes through the Dumars school of nBA GMing, we'll be all right!
Are you guys serious...What part of being over the salary cap don't you understand....Did you see our roster to begin with...We had no tradable parts...only Kurt Thomas....He came here with a starting roster of Kurt Thomas, Keith Van Horn,Howard Eisley,Dekimbe Motumbo,Shandon Anderson...on the bench Othella Harrington,Micheal Doleac,Micheal Sweetney,Charlie Ward,Frank Williams,Travis Knight,Maceij Lampe,...hurt was Allan Houston and Antonio McDyss....93 million in salary...Please if you guys can, tell me what can anyone do with this roster and salary position that can turn this organization around in two years..Please note that 9 of these player probally will not be in the nba one year from now......Are you really looking at this from a realistic standpoint or just from a fan's point of view who has no appreciation of what you can or can't do given a salary and talent scenario....I mean,please tell me the moves he could have made that he didn't...tell me who we should have kept that we lost in a trade.....



If that was the case, how come we traded more players than any other team in the last 2 years and added the most payroll by far?

Why take on any kind of payroll, especially massive payroll, if they feel the short term is a wash?

From the trade deadline last year--we added

Mo taylor 25mm$
Malik Rose and what will be picks 30+28 for another 30mm
Q-rich 40mm
Jerome james 30mm
-------------------
discounting any draft picks this is what isiah spent 125mm on

the only guy we got who ==value is Curry, but we negotiated poorly to get him when no one else wanted him.

and the whole thing doesnt fit

why take jerome james over gerald wallace?

you rebuild with jerome james and malik rose? or draft picks or what? its discombulated.
RIP Crushalot😞
holfresh
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1/20/2006  4:28 PM
The pistons have been playing together for about five years excluding Sheed Wallace,The parts are not even in place yet,the Knicks have not even played 40 games yet and we are measuring the two franchises...I mean really...The difference is this, Dumars have the full support of everyone in Detroit because thats where he played....he has thr option to be patient and be selective...he can also make mistakes,not picking Carmelo, and not have the fan base go against him...In Detroit, Dumars carrried more weight than Larry Brown...He is more secure to do more that is in the best interest of the team....Isiah don't have that luxury here...Larry Brown just got here and he is the anointed one...Forget that most of the personnel decisions that Brown was allowed to make in the past has been a total catastrophy....Isiah came here with the Knicks not making the playoff for the last 3 yrs and now he is the problem with the Knicks..Amazing...
holfresh
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1/20/2006  4:33 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by holfresh:

[quote]Posted by BRIGGS:

never had cap space, his roster was poor and Grant Hill forced his hand into a deal.

His use of the MLE

Chauncey Billups
Antonio Mcdyess
Mo Evans
trades
Rip
ben
weed

never took on a bad contract or gave away multiple unprotected picks

his drafting has been mediocre! although taking prince at 24 makes up for Rodney White and Darko to a great extent-- change the chemistry and the team may not be the same


If isiah goes through the Dumars school of nBA GMing, we'll be all right!
Are you guys serious...What part of being over the salary cap don't you understand....Did you see our roster to begin with...We had no tradable parts...only Kurt Thomas....He came here with a starting roster of Kurt Thomas, Keith Van Horn,Howard Eisley,Dekimbe Motumbo,Shandon Anderson...on the bench Othella Harrington,Micheal Doleac,Micheal Sweetney,Charlie Ward,Frank Williams,Travis Knight,Maceij Lampe,...hurt was Allan Houston and Antonio McDyss....93 million in salary...Please if you guys can, tell me what can anyone do with this roster and salary position that can turn this organization around in two years..Please note that 9 of these player probally will not be in the nba one year from now......Are you really looking at this from a realistic standpoint or just from a fan's point of view who has no appreciation of what you can or can't do given a salary and talent scenario....I mean,please tell me the moves he could have made that he didn't...tell me who we should have kept that we lost in a trade.....



If that was the case, how come we traded more players than any other team in the last 2 years and added the most payroll by far?

Why take on any kind of payroll, especially massive payroll, if they feel the short term is a wash?

From the trade deadline last year--we added

Mo taylor 25mm$
Malik Rose and what will be picks 30+28 for another 30mm
Q-rich 40mm
Jerome james 30mm
-------------------
discounting any draft picks this is what isiah spent 125mm on

the only guy we got who ==value is Curry, but we negotiated poorly to get him when no one else wanted him.

and the whole thing doesnt fit

why take jerome james over gerald wallace?

you rebuild with jerome james and malik rose? or draft picks or what? its discombulated.

At the time he got James, we had no center....none...nada...Curry was not on the radar...
I doesnt not matter if you are 50 or 70 million over the salary cap...You still can't sign free agents...I think that cap is about 47 million...The knicks were not seeing that number in about 5 years....By the way, can Gerald Wallace play center?
jaydh
Posts: 22855
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1/20/2006  4:37 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by holfresh:

[quote]Posted by BRIGGS:

never had cap space, his roster was poor and Grant Hill forced his hand into a deal.

His use of the MLE

Chauncey Billups
Antonio Mcdyess
Mo Evans
trades
Rip
ben
weed

never took on a bad contract or gave away multiple unprotected picks

his drafting has been mediocre! although taking prince at 24 makes up for Rodney White and Darko to a great extent-- change the chemistry and the team may not be the same


If isiah goes through the Dumars school of nBA GMing, we'll be all right!
Are you guys serious...What part of being over the salary cap don't you understand....Did you see our roster to begin with...We had no tradable parts...only Kurt Thomas....He came here with a starting roster of Kurt Thomas, Keith Van Horn,Howard Eisley,Dekimbe Motumbo,Shandon Anderson...on the bench Othella Harrington,Micheal Doleac,Micheal Sweetney,Charlie Ward,Frank Williams,Travis Knight,Maceij Lampe,...hurt was Allan Houston and Antonio McDyss....93 million in salary...Please if you guys can, tell me what can anyone do with this roster and salary position that can turn this organization around in two years..Please note that 9 of these player probally will not be in the nba one year from now......Are you really looking at this from a realistic standpoint or just from a fan's point of view who has no appreciation of what you can or can't do given a salary and talent scenario....I mean,please tell me the moves he could have made that he didn't...tell me who we should have kept that we lost in a trade.....



If that was the case, how come we traded more players than any other team in the last 2 years and added the most payroll by far?

Why take on any kind of payroll, especially massive payroll, if they feel the short term is a wash?

From the trade deadline last year--we added

Mo taylor 25mm$
Malik Rose and what will be picks 30+28 for another 30mm
Q-rich 40mm
Jerome james 30mm
-------------------
discounting any draft picks this is what isiah spent 125mm on

the only guy we got who ==value is Curry, but we negotiated poorly to get him when no one else wanted him.

and the whole thing doesnt fit

why take jerome james over gerald wallace?

you rebuild with jerome james and malik rose? or draft picks or what? its discombulated.

At the time he got James, we had no center....none...nada...Curry was not on the radar...
I doesnt not matter if you are 50 or 70 million over the salary cap...You still can't sign free agents...I think that cap is about 47 million...The knicks were not seeing that number in about 5 years....By the way, can Gerald Wallace play center?


no, but James Jones and Diop would have been a better option and we would probably have been a much better team.
BRIGGS
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1/20/2006  4:42 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by holfresh:

[quote]Posted by BRIGGS:

never had cap space, his roster was poor and Grant Hill forced his hand into a deal.

His use of the MLE

Chauncey Billups
Antonio Mcdyess
Mo Evans
trades
Rip
ben
weed

never took on a bad contract or gave away multiple unprotected picks

his drafting has been mediocre! although taking prince at 24 makes up for Rodney White and Darko to a great extent-- change the chemistry and the team may not be the same


If isiah goes through the Dumars school of nBA GMing, we'll be all right!
Are you guys serious...What part of being over the salary cap don't you understand....Did you see our roster to begin with...We had no tradable parts...only Kurt Thomas....He came here with a starting roster of Kurt Thomas, Keith Van Horn,Howard Eisley,Dekimbe Motumbo,Shandon Anderson...on the bench Othella Harrington,Micheal Doleac,Micheal Sweetney,Charlie Ward,Frank Williams,Travis Knight,Maceij Lampe,...hurt was Allan Houston and Antonio McDyss....93 million in salary...Please if you guys can, tell me what can anyone do with this roster and salary position that can turn this organization around in two years..Please note that 9 of these player probally will not be in the nba one year from now......Are you really looking at this from a realistic standpoint or just from a fan's point of view who has no appreciation of what you can or can't do given a salary and talent scenario....I mean,please tell me the moves he could have made that he didn't...tell me who we should have kept that we lost in a trade.....



If that was the case, how come we traded more players than any other team in the last 2 years and added the most payroll by far?

Why take on any kind of payroll, especially massive payroll, if they feel the short term is a wash?

From the trade deadline last year--we added

Mo taylor 25mm$
Malik Rose and what will be picks 30+28 for another 30mm
Q-rich 40mm
Jerome james 30mm
-------------------
discounting any draft picks this is what isiah spent 125mm on

the only guy we got who ==value is Curry, but we negotiated poorly to get him when no one else wanted him.

and the whole thing doesnt fit

why take jerome james over gerald wallace?

you rebuild with jerome james and malik rose? or draft picks or what? its discombulated.

At the time he got James, we had no center....none...nada...Curry was not on the radar...
I doesnt not matter if you are 50 or 70 million over the salary cap...You still can't sign free agents...I think that cap is about 47 million...The knicks were not seeing that number in about 5 years....By the way, can Gerald Wallace play center?


It doesnt matter if we have a C or not, you dont spend that much money on jerome james--thats what got us fcked with weatherspoon, who by the way was much better than james. Just because we need a C doesnt mean you go out and throw your whole MLE at a career bust turning 30. If we came into the year with no C, so what? what would be the difference in our recoprd? heck we have two C and we sck. makes 0 sense. you create a style of play, you get players and a coach that===that style of play. randomly throwing money at jerome james malik rose mo taylor and q rich is going backwards and it shows--

how about we make believe that we have to spend our money wisely--maybe decisions will be made with more thought. were stuck with these players.
RIP Crushalot😞
holfresh
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1/20/2006  4:42 PM
Isiah has brought to the Knicks the 3 most dificult positio to fill on an NBA roster.....A Center, A point guard, and a Head Coach...That is where we start...It is important that those 3 guys figure how to work together this year and yes it takes that long...This is not baseball..Then it is important to work Frye into that mix....No other parts on the Kincks matter right now....Those 4 pieces have to figure how this group go forward by the end of this year....All other parts are expendable....But you have to be patient...2 years is no time..Finally there is a fooundation that can be built....We had nothing before Isiah...I mean nothing....The games were unwatchable,
Now there is hope....So how can you kill this guy??? We had the best draft this past year in the NBA....That has not happened since Patrick Ewing...About 20 years...
holfresh
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1/20/2006  4:44 PM
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by holfresh:

[quote]Posted by BRIGGS:

never had cap space, his roster was poor and Grant Hill forced his hand into a deal.

His use of the MLE

Chauncey Billups
Antonio Mcdyess
Mo Evans
trades
Rip
ben
weed

never took on a bad contract or gave away multiple unprotected picks

his drafting has been mediocre! although taking prince at 24 makes up for Rodney White and Darko to a great extent-- change the chemistry and the team may not be the same


If isiah goes through the Dumars school of nBA GMing, we'll be all right!
Are you guys serious...What part of being over the salary cap don't you understand....Did you see our roster to begin with...We had no tradable parts...only Kurt Thomas....He came here with a starting roster of Kurt Thomas, Keith Van Horn,Howard Eisley,Dekimbe Motumbo,Shandon Anderson...on the bench Othella Harrington,Micheal Doleac,Micheal Sweetney,Charlie Ward,Frank Williams,Travis Knight,Maceij Lampe,...hurt was Allan Houston and Antonio McDyss....93 million in salary...Please if you guys can, tell me what can anyone do with this roster and salary position that can turn this organization around in two years..Please note that 9 of these player probally will not be in the nba one year from now......Are you really looking at this from a realistic standpoint or just from a fan's point of view who has no appreciation of what you can or can't do given a salary and talent scenario....I mean,please tell me the moves he could have made that he didn't...tell me who we should have kept that we lost in a trade.....



If that was the case, how come we traded more players than any other team in the last 2 years and added the most payroll by far?

Why take on any kind of payroll, especially massive payroll, if they feel the short term is a wash?

From the trade deadline last year--we added

Mo taylor 25mm$
Malik Rose and what will be picks 30+28 for another 30mm
Q-rich 40mm
Jerome james 30mm
-------------------
discounting any draft picks this is what isiah spent 125mm on

the only guy we got who ==value is Curry, but we negotiated poorly to get him when no one else wanted him.

and the whole thing doesnt fit

why take jerome james over gerald wallace?

you rebuild with jerome james and malik rose? or draft picks or what? its discombulated.

At the time he got James, we had no center....none...nada...Curry was not on the radar...
I doesnt not matter if you are 50 or 70 million over the salary cap...You still can't sign free agents...I think that cap is about 47 million...The knicks were not seeing that number in about 5 years....By the way, can Gerald Wallace play center?


no, but James Jones and Diop would have been a better option and we would probably have been a much better team.

Jones didn't want tocome to New York, Isiah tried to get him....
jaydh
Posts: 22855
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1/20/2006  4:45 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by jaydh:

no, but James Jones and Diop would have been a better option and we would probably have been a much better team.

Jones didn't want tocome to New York, Isiah tried to get him....

I thought Jones didnt come because he wanted a little more than the LLE which we couldnt do since we gave the MLE to JJ already.
holfresh
Posts: 38679
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Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081
1/20/2006  4:50 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by holfresh:

[quote]Posted by BRIGGS:

never had cap space, his roster was poor and Grant Hill forced his hand into a deal.

His use of the MLE

Chauncey Billups
Antonio Mcdyess
Mo Evans
trades
Rip
ben
weed

never took on a bad contract or gave away multiple unprotected picks

his drafting has been mediocre! although taking prince at 24 makes up for Rodney White and Darko to a great extent-- change the chemistry and the team may not be the same


If isiah goes through the Dumars school of nBA GMing, we'll be all right!
Are you guys serious...What part of being over the salary cap don't you understand....Did you see our roster to begin with...We had no tradable parts...only Kurt Thomas....He came here with a starting roster of Kurt Thomas, Keith Van Horn,Howard Eisley,Dekimbe Motumbo,Shandon Anderson...on the bench Othella Harrington,Micheal Doleac,Micheal Sweetney,Charlie Ward,Frank Williams,Travis Knight,Maceij Lampe,...hurt was Allan Houston and Antonio McDyss....93 million in salary...Please if you guys can, tell me what can anyone do with this roster and salary position that can turn this organization around in two years..Please note that 9 of these player probally will not be in the nba one year from now......Are you really looking at this from a realistic standpoint or just from a fan's point of view who has no appreciation of what you can or can't do given a salary and talent scenario....I mean,please tell me the moves he could have made that he didn't...tell me who we should have kept that we lost in a trade.....



If that was the case, how come we traded more players than any other team in the last 2 years and added the most payroll by far?

Why take on any kind of payroll, especially massive payroll, if they feel the short term is a wash?

From the trade deadline last year--we added

Mo taylor 25mm$
Malik Rose and what will be picks 30+28 for another 30mm
Q-rich 40mm
Jerome james 30mm
-------------------
discounting any draft picks this is what isiah spent 125mm on

the only guy we got who ==value is Curry, but we negotiated poorly to get him when no one else wanted him.

and the whole thing doesnt fit

why take jerome james over gerald wallace?

you rebuild with jerome james and malik rose? or draft picks or what? its discombulated.

At the time he got James, we had no center....none...nada...Curry was not on the radar...
I doesnt not matter if you are 50 or 70 million over the salary cap...You still can't sign free agents...I think that cap is about 47 million...The knicks were not seeing that number in about 5 years....By the way, can Gerald Wallace play center?


It doesnt matter if we have a C or not, you dont spend that much money on jerome james--thats what got us fcked with weatherspoon, who by the way was much better than james. Just because we need a C doesnt mean you go out and throw your whole MLE at a career bust turning 30. If we came into the year with no C, so what? what would be the difference in our recoprd? heck we have two C and we sck. makes 0 sense. you create a style of play, you get players and a coach that===that style of play. randomly throwing money at jerome james malik rose mo taylor and q rich is going backwards and it shows--

how about we make believe that we have to spend our money wisely--maybe decisions will be made with more thought. were stuck with these players.

It's does not matter, we were in salary hell for the next 5 years....Allan Houston was half the cap for the next 3 years.....We needed a body....You can't play in the east without a center..If you remember...we were being killed with Kurt Thomas at center...It's not a crazy contract either..It's 5 mill a year...tradable...Yor guys are just moaning about the bad moves..What about the good moves?
holfresh
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1/20/2006  4:55 PM
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by jaydh:

no, but James Jones and Diop would have been a better option and we would probably have been a much better team.

Jones didn't want tocome to New York, Isiah tried to get him....

I thought Jones didnt come because he wanted a little more than the LLE which we couldnt do since we gave the MLE to JJ already.

If he knew Curry would be a Knick, JJ would not be here...We needed a center more than a sml forward..
Bonn1997
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1/20/2006  4:57 PM
BRIGGS: why take jerome james over gerald wallace?

Do you not understand what it means to be a RESTRICTED free agent on a team that reportedly would match any MLE offer? That's why every team (not just the Knicks) ignored Wallace.
holfresh
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1/20/2006  5:00 PM
My big problem with the team right now is that Larry is not giving Steph,Curry and Frye the playing time together so they can get to know each others game....Right now that waht the Knicks are about...Those 4 pieces....
holfresh
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1/20/2006  5:04 PM
It's not about Ariza,Lee,Robinson,Crawford(who can be great off the bench on a winning team...But in the end, Isiah will get it done...Watch for Al Harrington in a Knick uniform next year...You heard it here first...The guy loves Isiah and wants to be in NY...Free Agent next year..He wont be in Atlanta next year...They are not paying him and Joe Johnson..
jaydh
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Joined: 8/16/2001
Member: #96
1/20/2006  5:13 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by jaydh:

no, but James Jones and Diop would have been a better option and we would probably have been a much better team.

Jones didn't want tocome to New York, Isiah tried to get him....

I thought Jones didnt come because he wanted a little more than the LLE which we couldnt do since we gave the MLE to JJ already.

If he knew Curry would be a Knick, JJ would not be here...We needed a center more than a sml forward..


thats where diop comes in. if we are rebuilding, why sign a 30yr old center rather than a 24yr old center.
jaydh
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1/20/2006  5:14 PM
Posted by holfresh:

It's not about Ariza,Lee,Robinson,Crawford(who can be great off the bench on a winning team...But in the end, Isiah will get it done...Watch for Al Harrington in a Knick uniform next year...You heard it here first...The guy loves Isiah and wants to be in NY...Free Agent next year..He wont be in Atlanta next year...They are not paying him and Joe Johnson..

why would we want harrington. just another all offense no defense player.
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isiah complains about what he started with--how about Joe Dumars?
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