Posted by tomverve:

Frye is not a terrible rebounder. He's currently got a 13.8 rebound rate-- not spectacular, ranks 53rd overall-- but not *terrible.* Compare to Troy Murphy (14.1), Lamar Odom (13.9), Udonis Haslem (13.9), Dirk Nowitzki (13.7). If Frye is a terrible rebounder, then so are all those guys.

Give me a break. Do you watch the games or do you just watch charts and graphs? I'm telling you what I see. Thats with my own eyes as the game is actually taking place. Right now Frye is getting rebounds because he's 6'11 and guarding players in the paint. Right place and right time. He should be getting more and in time will be getting more, but right now he's not good. Larry Brown obviously sees it. Frye isnt losing minutes because of his scoring.

Posted by fishmike:

Give me a break. Do you watch the games or do you just watch charts and graphs?

I do both-- I watch every Knick game, and occassionally I'll have a gander at the stats. You do the same thing.

Imagine someone who never looked at the numbers. They might watch a bunch of Suns games and conclude that Shawn Marion is a terrible shooter. His form sucks, and in the games this guy watched, he always seemed to miss his jumpers. The truth is that Marion's form does suck, and he could be a much better jump shooter than he is, but the bottom line is that he's not *terrible* at jump shooting. If you showed this guy Marion's FG% on jumpers he might roll his eyes and say something like "do you watch the games or do you just use charts and graphs? I'm telling you what I see with my own two eyes."

I'm telling you what I see. Thats with my own eyes as the game is actually taking place. Right now Frye is getting rebounds because he's 6'11 and guarding players in the paint. Right place and right time.

There are guys of comparable height who guard players in the paint and do much worse. So it can't be just about height and positioning. Something about Frye separates him from those truly 'terrible' rebounders. If you're not seeing it, you're not looking hard enough, cuz it's there.

He should be getting more and in time will be getting more, but right now he's not good.

I'm arguing against the claim that he's a "terrible" rebounder. I'm not saying that he's already a great rebounder or that he doesn't have a lot of room for improvement. Right now I'd say he's a decent rebounder who could do better. He's not a terrible rebounder. Tim Thomas was a terrible rebounder.

Marion's shooting technique sucks too, and you could critique him for that. But bottom line, his jump shot is still good enough to go in for a fairly good percentage.

Likewise, Frye's rebounding technique might suck, but the bottom line is that he's still good enough to grab a fairly good percentage of the available rebounds. That he has a poor technique implies that he has room for improvement, but it doesn't mean that his actual rebounding output is as bad as one might think it is.

Tom is correct here IMO. Frye has HUGE room for improvement and is only an adequate rebounder right now. He doesn't get and hold great positioning and he doesn't box out great. But he is FAR from being a bad rebounder as well. He grabs an adequate # of rebounds and they aren't all rebounds that just happen to bounce to him.

My guess is the reason Frye doesn't always stay on the court in crunch time has much more to do with his man to man and help defense than with his rebounding.

I thought the Marion example was a good illustration of the benefit of looking at stats in addition to watching the games.

Posted by Bonn1997:


My guess is the reason Frye doesn't always stay on the court in crunch time has much more to do with his man to man and help defense than with his rebounding.

Frye has finished almost every game in 2006. He's getting minutes in crunch time. AD is getting some of his minutes earlier in the game though. LB has Frye on a much short leash in the 2nd quarter for instance, where before Frye would be getting lots of shots in the second quarter and would often score in double figures there. But Frye finished the Atlanta game, the Minnesota game, most of the Dallas game, the Cavs game, etc. I didn't see the end of the Toronto game, but there wasn't much crunch time in that game anywya.

that said, I absolutely agree with Fish that it's obvious from watching the game that Frye's form, timing, effort needs work on rebounding. Sure, stats can tell you he does a decent job on the boards, but they can't tell you how he gets what he gets and what he misses. Frye has physical tools to be a top 15 rebounder in this league, he needs work to get there though.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 01-18-2006 2:23 PM]