I still dont think the knicks should go after artest, the only way we would get him is to give up at least two of our valuable young players, artest's personality makes him too big of a question mark in my opinion for a team that is as young, and a franchise that is as financialy unstable as this one. I think we need to just bide our time, and accumulate more assets, before we spend them on another risky endeavor, like we did with curry.

Posted by SlimPack:

I still dont think the knicks should go after artest, the only way we would get him is to give up at least two of our valuable young players, artest's personality makes him too big of a question mark in my opinion for a team that is as young, and a franchise that is as financialy unstable as this one. I think we need to just bide our time, and accumulate more assets, before we spend them on another risky endeavor, like we did with curry.

on the other hand, giving up $$ and prospects that may not amount to much for maybe the best 2-way player in the league is almost too much NOT to go after him. There were a LOT of dectrators for Weed Wallace, but boy can both of them play. And on D, Artest makes people around him better.

Posted by Bonn1997:

It's not that I don't like Artest; it's that I don't trust him. He's quit on his team too many times and has the wrong attitude. The exp contracts could be part of trades involving Rashard Lewis or maybe Chandler + either Duhon or Deng. Maybe Wally. Maybe Jalen plus Denver's unprotected #1 and a 2nd rd pick. Maybe Pierce. Maybe Lamar Odom plus Brian Grant. Maybe Pietrus plus Foyle. Maybe Battier or Warrick plus Eddy Jones or Mike Miller. Those are just some possibilities that come to my mind in less than a minute. I'd prefer any of those to Ron. Spare us the talk about those guys never amounting to the talent Ron is. There's no dispute about that. We need winners; not simply talented players with the wrong attitude.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 01-03-2006 6:07 PM]

most of these are not realistic or plain silly if were spending money, we should spend it on an impact player, not draft picks, potential players or think that teams are in the business to make the knicks better. artest is available--he can be had hs an impact player.

us trading for artest would be alot riskier than detroit trading for rasheed wallace, wallace's teammates liked and respected him, apparently the same can't be said about artest, I know that in order to be a good team you have to take risks but I think this would be too big a risk. I doubt artest would change his disruptive ways even after a change of scenery.

you have to give them back some playable talent + the expiring contract

davis
Ariza
Nate
Butler


they did darn well with dale davis last year, assuming tony davis is not in the hospital with a disk problem--he should fit the bill+ they get three playable young prospects.

Posted by martin:

surprisingly, I think NY still has a shot at Artest. Donnie is taking too much time. The more time that passes the more time NY has of getting involved somehow.

it's probably a situation where donnie hasn't gotten the offers he expected, and is guaging what the direction of the team is. at the same time, i'm sure him and isiah spoke and they probably agreed to revisit a possible trade after a few more games go by with the knicks to see whether we can get back into this or not.

Bonn, since Briggs hasn't (and shouldn't) waste his time commenting on your proposals, I will.

First of, none of the guys you mentioned are "winners" othern than Chris Duhon, who won an NCAA Championship with Duke. Great, maye we should sign Jay Williams, he's a winner, too.

Rashard Lewis is a subpar defender, and hasn't won anything. He's a good shooter, hip hip hooray, I'd rather have Artest.

Chandler, Duhon, and Deng just don't do it for me, plus, how many times can Isiah get hosed by Paxson? Should we put an over/under on this? He's already given them cap space (for Crawford) and every forseeable Knicks draft pick (for Curry/Davis), what else is he going to offer them?

Maybe Wally World. Why is Minnesota going to trade their 2nd best player to get cap space when they can just make a deal for Artest? That makes no sense, plus Wally isn't a "winner" and I can't see him pushing the Knicks to any type of winning record.

"Maybe Jalen plus Denver's unprotected #1 and a 2nd rd pick." I'll make that trade, just to get draft picks, but that's a high price to pay to get a few draft picks that Isiah shouldn't have traded anyway. Jalen isn't a winner, though.

"Maybe Pierce." Once again, if you take Pierce, you're going to take on LaFrentz too, and I'd rather have the insane Ron Artest than the pouty Paul Pierce, who seems to be constantly bitching and moaning.

"Maybe Lamar Odom plus Brian Grant." Maybe if Kobe gets hurt for the year the Lakers will do this. What has Lamar Odom amounted to? Several drug suspensions, one playoff appearance, and mediocre numbers? Brian Grant? Come on, Bonn, even you don't want these two insetad of Artest.

"Maybe Pietrus plus Foyle. Maybe Battier or Warrick plus Eddy Jones or Mike Miller." Pietrus and Foyle for cap space is do-able, I like that move. Neither has won anything, but Pietrus is young and is a solid defender, so that's a move I like. Why Jerry West is going to give up Battir, Warric, Eddy Jones, or Mike Miller is beyond me. He won't trade Battier straight up for Artest, now he's going to move him to the Knicks with some of the better Grizzlies for cap space? Come on.

"Spare us the talk about those guys never amounting to the talent Ron is. There's no dispute about that. We need winners; not simply talented players with the wrong attitude."

Spare us the talk, Bonn, of getting a bunch of spare parts and jokers who aren't "winners" anyway.

I'd rather take a chance on Artest and give them Ariza (who isn't even in the rotation and is expendable now that the Knicks have Qyntel Woods), Nate Robinson, and Jackie Butler and cap space and have a chance with Artest. If not, he goes crazy and gets suspended for life, whatever, I'd rather take the chance and have one of the 10 best players in the league.

If you assess the best/worst case scenario, the best case with Artest is he comes here, averages 20 points/game, and plays tremendous wing defense and the Knicks make the playoffs and possibly advance. The worst case is he loses it and the Knicks lose some (lets face it) mediocre prospects who will never amount to more than half the player Ron Artest is.

The best case scenario with the guys you came up with "in a minute" (I'm sure you spent more than 60 seconds assessing who could be had through offering cap relief, either that or you have every NBA roster memorized) is the Knicks go .500 and get worked (if) they make the playoffs. The worst case is they don't make the playoffs and they have a bunch of losers with huge contracts (kind of like right now).

When you assess it like that, I find it hard to say "I don't want Ron Artest because he's not a winner." Give me a break, Artest was a major contributor on a team that lost in 6 games in the ECF to the eventual champion Detroit Pistons, most of the guys on your list haven't gotten out of the first round.