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jaydh
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1/3/2006  2:10 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by martin:
Posted by McK1:
and only the **OPTION** to switch with us in 07, doesnt mean we are switching, but even if we are, the bulls pick couldnt be much worse.



2 first rounders (both likely in the top 15) and 20 mill in cap-space in a top 3 market to go along with Deng Gordon Heinrich Duhon and Sweetney all still playing on their rookie contracts and Chandler.

Projection is the key here. Bulls have a ton of assets to boost themselves externally as well as internally

realistically the Bulls have had this same option for like the last 5 years, and they are still treading water. Remember the year TMac was a free agent... wouldn't go to Chi.

I can't remember the last big name free agent switching teams. TMac to Orlando, Shaq to LA, who else?

a) different regime

b) Joe Johnson to Atlanta. KG might want to go home after this season . 20 mill in capspace and the roster spot(s) + multiple draft picks + perhaps young talent on rookie contracts is good clean deal to a motivated seller

i would think KG wants to win now, not go through another rebuilding project at this point in his career.
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McK1
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1/3/2006  2:11 PM
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by McK1:

Any GM who says Nate Robinson was the best pg in a draft that featured CP3 Williams and Felton and only fell b/c he is 5' 9 is clearly an imbecile

he def was not even a PG when he was drafted; but he did fall only because of his height, a definate lottery pick if he was 6'6"


[Edited by - jaydh on 01-03-2006 2:01 PM]

Gerald Green was supposedly a definite lottery pick as well. Detroit beating LA has advanced the thinking past just get as many guys who can dunk as possible. Nate's a project

[Edited by - McK1 on 01-03-2006 2:11 PM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
jaydh
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1/3/2006  2:12 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by McK1:

Any GM who says Nate Robinson was the best pg in a draft that featured CP3 Williams and Felton and only fell b/c he is 5' 9 is clearly an imbecile

he def was not even a PG when he was drafted; but he did fall only because of his height, a definate lottery pick if he was 6'6"


[Edited by - jaydh on 01-03-2006 2:01 PM]

Gerald Green was supposedly a definite lottery pick as well. Detroit beating LA has advanced the thinking past just get as many guys who can dunk as possible. Nate's a project

[Edited by - McK1 on 01-03-2006 2:11 PM]


so all nate can do is dunk??
efw
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1/3/2006  2:22 PM
Only rarely does a draft pick really help a team, initially. I don't like the idea of Isiah giving away so many draft picks but I'm not going to kill myself if we don't have a lotto pick this year. Teams that rely on draft picks to win flounder in incompetence and frustrations - see Atlanta, Clippers, NO, Bulls, and Toronto.

The best way to build a real contender is through trades and free agent signings. That's why Indiana has been able to rebuild "on the fly," continuing to make the playoffs for 17 straight years. When's the last time they had a lotto pick?

The draft is important, but we just got three quality players last year and may have had the best draft of anyone. We need to surround these players with quality veterans. Unfortunately, Isiah's hands are tied considering the cap. So he has to do it through trades. Personally, if I had this year's pick back, I'd still trade it with Sweets and Thomas to Chicago for Curry (not to mention that AD's expriring contract will play a significant role in determining the real success of the trade). And I know from looking at previous year's posts that many of you would agree.

[Edited by - efw on 01-03-2006 2:22 PM]
McK1
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1/3/2006  2:25 PM
on the pro-level...yeah.

40% shooting; 43 assists 38 TO's

LB will make a pro out of him. He may never have a true position but he will be a game changer at guard like Earl.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
islesfan
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1/3/2006  2:28 PM
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by FireIsiah:

The point is that sweetney is playing just as good as curry and we gave up a top 5 pick. The question would be would u rather have Morrison/Aldridge/Gay and Sweetney or just Curry?

Your name is really dumb.

But in any case, we are not picking in the draft tommorow, it will be at the end of the season. We have alot of ground to make up, but I doubt we will be the 3rd or even 5th worst team in the league by seasons end. I would rather have Curry. The point Zeke made is valid, Curry is in the same age group as thoses guys and if he were in the draft he would be the #1 pick by a long shot. If you can turn Sweets into Curry, you do it. We cannot cry over milk that hasn't been spilled yet. The pdraft still has to happen and the guy picked still has to pan out in a major way, AND Curry has to show no improvement. When all of those things happen holler at me. Until then, STFU.

Stop hating. I think his name is great.

And the milk has been spilt already. The picks are gone. It's just a matter of how big the spill is going to be. And we're not judging this on just this year's pick. If Sweetney plus the FOUR picks turn out to be bigger pieces to the puzzle than just Curry, then Isiah screwed up in a big way.

4 picks...lol, what 2 2nd rounders? if they can find a good player in the 2nd round, then they will be lucky as hell. we gave up the unprotected 1st next year, and only the **OPTION** to switch with us in 07, doesnt mean we are switching, but even if we are, the bulls pick couldnt be much worse.

So end of the 1st rd picks are supposed to be a big deal when Isiah acquires them but 2nd rd picks that could be just 1-5 picks later aren't worthless?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
rain
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1/3/2006  2:48 PM
Your serious? Hating is what you do best. But you hate your own team. All there is, from you, criticizism of our current team. Isiah was left with a mess, remember. If you actually contributed something of use.. say ideas for improvement.. you'd be taken seriously. Until then, your a troll... who hates his own team. Layden laid the foundation, with help from Dolan.
[/quote]

Stop hating. I think his name is great.

And the milk has been spilt already. The picks are gone. It's just a matter of how big the spill is going to be. And we're not judging this on just this year's pick. If Sweetney plus the FOUR picks turn out to be bigger pieces to the puzzle than just Curry, then Isiah screwed up in a big way.
[/quote]

jaydh
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1/3/2006  2:48 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by FireIsiah:

The point is that sweetney is playing just as good as curry and we gave up a top 5 pick. The question would be would u rather have Morrison/Aldridge/Gay and Sweetney or just Curry?

Your name is really dumb.

But in any case, we are not picking in the draft tommorow, it will be at the end of the season. We have alot of ground to make up, but I doubt we will be the 3rd or even 5th worst team in the league by seasons end. I would rather have Curry. The point Zeke made is valid, Curry is in the same age group as thoses guys and if he were in the draft he would be the #1 pick by a long shot. If you can turn Sweets into Curry, you do it. We cannot cry over milk that hasn't been spilled yet. The pdraft still has to happen and the guy picked still has to pan out in a major way, AND Curry has to show no improvement. When all of those things happen holler at me. Until then, STFU.

Stop hating. I think his name is great.

And the milk has been spilt already. The picks are gone. It's just a matter of how big the spill is going to be. And we're not judging this on just this year's pick. If Sweetney plus the FOUR picks turn out to be bigger pieces to the puzzle than just Curry, then Isiah screwed up in a big way.

4 picks...lol, what 2 2nd rounders? if they can find a good player in the 2nd round, then they will be lucky as hell. we gave up the unprotected 1st next year, and only the **OPTION** to switch with us in 07, doesnt mean we are switching, but even if we are, the bulls pick couldnt be much worse.

So end of the 1st rd picks are supposed to be a big deal when Isiah acquires them but 2nd rd picks that could be just 1-5 picks later aren't worthless?


who says end of the 1st round picks are such a BIG deal? but yes, an end of the 1st round pick is better than any pick in the 2nd round, even if it is only a few later. many nba players have been drafted in the late first round, the same cant be said for 2nd round picks.
FireIsiah
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1/3/2006  2:56 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by FireIsiah:

The point is that sweetney is playing just as good as curry and we gave up a top 5 pick. The question would be would u rather have Morrison/Aldridge/Gay and Sweetney or just Curry?

Your name is really dumb.

But in any case, we are not picking in the draft tommorow, it will be at the end of the season. We have alot of ground to make up, but I doubt we will be the 3rd or even 5th worst team in the league by seasons end. I would rather have Curry. The point Zeke made is valid, Curry is in the same age group as thoses guys and if he were in the draft he would be the #1 pick by a long shot. If you can turn Sweets into Curry, you do it. We cannot cry over milk that hasn't been spilled yet. The pdraft still has to happen and the guy picked still has to pan out in a major way, AND Curry has to show no improvement. When all of those things happen holler at me. Until then, STFU.

Actually the name is what really should happen to Isiah. Curry was great in overtime but where was he for the whole game, 7 pts at the end of regulation. Thomas locked him up, i wish we still had him instead of Q. Curry scored all his points when that guy Burke (12th man) was covering him. And why should I STFU when we are 8-21 and still have no outside shooter, interior rebounder, defensive specialist or a small foward on this roster? Isiah has done a good job!!!!! Highest payroll in the league and we start 3 rookies.
I want to leave something that's going to stand for a long timeI want to leave a legacy,I want to leave tradition.I want to leave an imprint,a blueprint in terms of how people play,and how they coach and how they respond when they put on the Knick uni.
ultknicks524
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1/3/2006  3:02 PM
who says end of the 1st round picks are such a BIG deal? but yes, an end of the 1st round pick is better than any pick in the 2nd round, even if it is only a few later. many nba players have been drafted in the late first round, the same cant be said for 2nd round picks.

Are you kidding me? You are saying that 29th and 30th pick in the draft is better than a 35th pick (5th pick in the second round)?
jaydh
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1/3/2006  3:04 PM
Posted by ultknicks524:
who says end of the 1st round picks are such a BIG deal? but yes, an end of the 1st round pick is better than any pick in the 2nd round, even if it is only a few later. many nba players have been drafted in the late first round, the same cant be said for 2nd round picks.

Are you kidding me? You are saying that 29th and 30th pick in the draft is better than a 35th pick (5th pick in the second round)?

yes...just as 15 is better than 16, and 16 is better than 17, and so on......
PhilinLA
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1/3/2006  3:07 PM
Interesting that Anthony sees no causation between having a big man in the middle and guys like Thomas fouling out. Let him get over last season, he hasn't even had healthy legs yet and he's still outplaying Sweets. Get a clue, GA.
http://amonthhoffundays.blogspot.com/ We got a ringer.
Bonn1997
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1/3/2006  5:12 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by martin:
Posted by McK1:
and only the **OPTION** to switch with us in 07, doesnt mean we are switching, but even if we are, the bulls pick couldnt be much worse.



2 first rounders (both likely in the top 15) and 20 mill in cap-space in a top 3 market to go along with Deng Gordon Heinrich Duhon and Sweetney all still playing on their rookie contracts and Chandler.

Projection is the key here. Bulls have a ton of assets to boost themselves externally as well as internally

realistically the Bulls have had this same option for like the last 5 years, and they are still treading water. Remember the year TMac was a free agent... wouldn't go to Chi.

I can't remember the last big name free agent switching teams. TMac to Orlando, Shaq to LA, who else?

a) different regime

b) Joe Johnson to Atlanta. KG might want to go home after this season . 20 mill in capspace and the roster spot(s) + multiple draft picks + perhaps young talent on rookie contracts is good clean deal to a motivated seller
Joe Johnson's hardly a star. But he did a *sign and trade*, which any team over the cap can do. The JJ signing is irrelevant to any claims that you need cap space to rebuild.

nyballer
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1/3/2006  5:25 PM
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by ultknicks524:
who says end of the 1st round picks are such a BIG deal? but yes, an end of the 1st round pick is better than any pick in the 2nd round, even if it is only a few later. many nba players have been drafted in the late first round, the same cant be said for 2nd round picks.

Are you kidding me? You are saying that 29th and 30th pick in the draft is better than a 35th pick (5th pick in the second round)?

yes...just as 15 is better than 16, and 16 is better than 17, and so on......

eh not necessarily, theres contract differences and such that give you more flexibility when drafting a second rounder early as opposed to a late first rounder.
"easy like sunday morning..." - walt clyde
Bonn1997
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1/3/2006  5:31 PM
Posted by nyballer:
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by ultknicks524:
who says end of the 1st round picks are such a BIG deal? but yes, an end of the 1st round pick is better than any pick in the 2nd round, even if it is only a few later. many nba players have been drafted in the late first round, the same cant be said for 2nd round picks.

Are you kidding me? You are saying that 29th and 30th pick in the draft is better than a 35th pick (5th pick in the second round)?

yes...just as 15 is better than 16, and 16 is better than 17, and so on......

eh not necessarily, theres contract differences and such that give you more flexibility when drafting a second rounder early as opposed to a late first rounder.
1st rd picks come with Bird rights and a cheap 4 year contract. That's better than 2nd rd picks. You usually sign them for a shorter contract and then have to pay them big bucks if they pan out. Now team's have these players' Bird rights but they have to use up the MLE to re-sign them. I'd much rather have a late first round than early 2nd rd pick.

misterearl
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1/3/2006  7:01 PM
Has anybody seen Milos Vujanic, Clarence Weatherspoon, Howard Eisley, Chollie Ward, Travis Knight, Maci ej Lampe or Tim Thomas lately?
once a knick always a knick
martin
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1/3/2006  7:17 PM
^ They were caught havin' drinks with Big Game on New Years Eve. Kept feeding him shots.
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McK1
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1/3/2006  7:18 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by McK1:
Posted by martin:
Posted by McK1:
and only the **OPTION** to switch with us in 07, doesnt mean we are switching, but even if we are, the bulls pick couldnt be much worse.



2 first rounders (both likely in the top 15) and 20 mill in cap-space in a top 3 market to go along with Deng Gordon Heinrich Duhon and Sweetney all still playing on their rookie contracts and Chandler.

Projection is the key here. Bulls have a ton of assets to boost themselves externally as well as internally

realistically the Bulls have had this same option for like the last 5 years, and they are still treading water. Remember the year TMac was a free agent... wouldn't go to Chi.

I can't remember the last big name free agent switching teams. TMac to Orlando, Shaq to LA, who else?

a) different regime

b) Joe Johnson to Atlanta. KG might want to go home after this season . 20 mill in capspace and the roster spot(s) + multiple draft picks + perhaps young talent on rookie contracts is good clean deal to a motivated seller
Joe Johnson's hardly a star. But he did a *sign and trade*, which any team over the cap can do. The JJ signing is irrelevant to any claims that you need cap space to rebuild.

BYC rules make it much more difficult to pull off sign and trades for capped out teams. Its not the same thing. Thats why Isiah has to try and concoct huge multiplayer trades.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
Bonn1997
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1/3/2006  7:28 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by McK1:
Posted by martin:
Posted by McK1:
and only the **OPTION** to switch with us in 07, doesnt mean we are switching, but even if we are, the bulls pick couldnt be much worse.



2 first rounders (both likely in the top 15) and 20 mill in cap-space in a top 3 market to go along with Deng Gordon Heinrich Duhon and Sweetney all still playing on their rookie contracts and Chandler.

Projection is the key here. Bulls have a ton of assets to boost themselves externally as well as internally

realistically the Bulls have had this same option for like the last 5 years, and they are still treading water. Remember the year TMac was a free agent... wouldn't go to Chi.

I can't remember the last big name free agent switching teams. TMac to Orlando, Shaq to LA, who else?

a) different regime

b) Joe Johnson to Atlanta. KG might want to go home after this season . 20 mill in capspace and the roster spot(s) + multiple draft picks + perhaps young talent on rookie contracts is good clean deal to a motivated seller
Joe Johnson's hardly a star. But he did a *sign and trade*, which any team over the cap can do. The JJ signing is irrelevant to any claims that you need cap space to rebuild.

BYC rules make it much more difficult to pull off sign and trades for capped out teams. Its not the same thing. Thats why Isiah has to try and concoct huge multiplayer trades.

It didn't stop Isiah from pulling off sign and trades for Jamal and Eddy the last two years. I don't think more money was involved in those deals than in the JJ, Boris Diaw, multiple picks deal. Who cares if slightly more players were involved in the Isiah deals?
McK1
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1/3/2006  7:43 PM
yep he pulled off s&t for 2 Bulls cast-offs. the process helped Chicago clear 20 mill in cap space after this season since Pax demanded only ending contracts. Phx just got a 4.9 mill trade exception. Huge difference.

Now if we wanted to pull off a deal for Joe Johnson, Isiah had nothing to get a deal done with. Too many variables have to be in place doing it the capped out way. Quality of player is a huge benefit to what kinds of swap you pull off as well. And yes Joe Johnson is a much more quality player than anyone in a Knicks uniform.

You can win a championship with a mucker for a center. You can't win a championship without great guard play

the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
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