Passing ability, Decision making.
This is harming the half-court game just as much. Look at tonight's game. When they play half-court they are disoriented, inefficient, and end up with one broken play after another which deteriorates into one-on-one against the shot clock.
When playing a transition style, their play was much smoother, more inspired, etc. and the decision-making was much better during that time as well. The energy carried over into their half-court play during that time too.
The difference is the Knick's players have a much stronger ability to make plays on both offense and defense when they play a faster tempo.
So there is no reason they are bad. There is no possibility they can learn to play better?
That is not what I am saying at all. If they play more uptempo they WILL play much better, even when they do need to settle down and play half-court. Just like tonight against the Suns. They were much better when they played fast. More entertaining too. They seemed to enjoy it and come together more as a team as well.
So Woods, Frye, Lee, Curry, Nate etc - all know everything there is to know and know how the best ways to maximize each others skills. Yes they are very knowledgeable about basketball compared to you and me - but they are playing against players that have also played all their lives. Relative to other NBA players they are low on the learning curve.
I did not say that. My point is that this ain't rocket science. They most likely already know how to play a transition style, and they ain't strangers to half-court either. They are just better at transition basketball. Why? Because it suits their abilities.
I disagree that we have a clear indication of what style best suits them
Okay. I think looking at the players is evidence enough. I think it will become more clear as they play more transition.
We are losing like you say because we're not very good. My point is you can sometimes take short cuts that will make you a little better but limit your long-term growth. I think LBs style it to make the big changes even if it hurts in the short-term.
What short cut? I don't subscribe to the school of thought that half-court is "The Way to Play" and running is a gimmicky short cut. I think that is rhetoric. (I am not saying you are engaging in rhetoric, but I hear this stuff so often.) It is all decided by your personnel. The championship teams do both very well.
Most of these players have never been successful with any system and certainly not playing with each other. LB is trying to figure out what works.
I could have saved him about 25 games of dabbling. What works is playing a style that suits your player's abilities.
My observation and that of most posters on this board that I have read is that Marbs does not advance the ball quickly and slows the offense down by holding the ball too much.
Because the offense is too structured for his style of play and it restricts his abilities. I really don't worry about what other people say anyway.
These are not the qualities that suit a running point guard.
This is not nearly as much of a problem when he runs.
I do agree he has the physical ability and many of the skills to run - but I haven't seen the mind set.
You've seen the mind-set for him to be successful in the half-court? I haven't.
And what team that used the pressing defense as more then a seldomly used change of pace have you seen succeed? This is not meant to be sarcastic I just can't remember a team then has successfully usinh the press on a regular basis particularly in the post season. The press is also another "Team skill" to learn it is not a matter of people just covering people further up court. It needs to be coordinated and practiced - at this point the practice time could be better spent. THough I have no objection to implementing in the future when the team has learned the basics of defense.
The point is not to press all game a la the runnin' rebels. It is to pressure the ball a lot more, meaning when it is appropriate. The 80's Celtics pressed plenty, as did the Lakers, and the Bulls pressed quite well too. Not all the time, but when the time was right.
This point I agree with fully. The athletes are good finishers. My concern is that I don't think Craw, Nate, Lee, or Q the guards who will be controlling the ball will do a good job running the break
All I can say is that in my observation, they are far worse at running a half-court game. And when the pace is fast, the guards' ability to break down defensive players opens it up for the athletes and the shooters to do their thing.
Transition ball requires quicker decisions I've always found both playing and observing. I think you are correct it leads to more scoring opportunities but mistakes in transition lead to more opportunites for the opposition also.
In transition the play develops while you run downcourt and the right play is fairly obvious and instinctual. In half-court if you miss a cut/cutter etc. the whole thing dies and we have JC for a bad fallaway.
To me the key is to get this team playing cohesively on defense and offense, making good decisions with the ball and having good shot selection.
I believe they will do this better if they pick up the pace.
The record is bearing out that the team is not very good. To me it bears out also that the team needs to learn. I don't know how else they can improve - besides getting new players.
That is what will happen, we will add/drop some players. I think the whole LB is 'teaching' is overblown and more of an excuse than anything.
I see the better approach as concentrating on the basics of taking care of the ball, good shot selection and Team defense. I think our big disconnect is that I think it is easier to learn the basics first in the half-court game - then decide if you want or need to run.
I don't see how concentrating on the things you mentioned exclude playing transition ball. They should already know the basics, with maybe the exception of Ariza. Like I wrote above I find the whole teaching/learning bit to be an excuse for inexcusably poor play.
Our second disagreement is perhaps that I place more trust in LB then you do. This maybe partially because I didn't expect this team to get off to a good start so perhaps am not as disappointed by their current play.
I trusted him until I saw him doing stuff that was nuts (Starting Rose., etc.), and not doing things that are plain as day (Make proper use of athletic players, especially when they are not particularly skilled.) I think the "Larry has a Grand Plan" school of thought is slightly naive, he is searching for anything at this point. Maybe transition play will finally come up in the queu.
Either way I've enjoyed the interaction. And no matter what style works - I hope we agree we are both hoping they start improving soon.
I enjoyed it too and I do hope they improve as well.
oohah
