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Hypothetical: If LB was to retire early
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BlueSeats
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12/29/2005  1:18 AM
Just play along with the premise. What if LB and Isiah are in deep discord over the use of the roster and LB isn't on as solid footing as some of us presumed. (That might even explain why Steph feels secure in dogging the LB style, as some of us think he is.) Lets further assume that if LB will not get the roster moves he wants he will resign, with the blessings of his doctors and wife. As such the Knicks would not be on the hook for the rest of his contract.

Whether all that is plausible or not, lets just pick up from the hypothetical point where Larry choses to resign from the Knicks this season.

Of coaches available now, who would you want?

Does any one think Isiah would be a good option as a GM/coach? Is that too much power for one man? Would he serve the organization better as just the coach, or just the GM, or neither, or both?
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martin
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12/29/2005  1:29 AM
my god what a fickle crowd we have become.

Isiah has to know that he is limited and would never let Brown step down so quickly or take the helm without a surefire sigh that they were doing well.
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SlimPack
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12/29/2005  1:31 AM
Posted by BlueSeats:

Just play along with the premise. What if LB and Isiah are in deep discord over the use of the roster and LB isn't on as solid footing as some of us presumed. (That might even explain why Steph feels secure in dogging the LB style, as some of us think he is.) Lets further assume that if LB will not get the roster moves he wants he will resign, with the blessings of his doctors and wife. As such the Knicks would not be on the hook for the rest of his contract.

Whether all that is plausible or not, lets just pick up from the hypothetical point where Larry choses to resign from the Knicks this season.

Of coaches available now, who would you want?

Does any one think Isiah would be a good option as a GM/coach? Is that too much power for one man? Would he serve the organization better as just the coach, or just the GM, or neither, or both?

I dont think zeke wants to coach anyway, if all of these unlikely events were to inexpicably occur than I think I would go after westphal, I this team is better off pushing tempo.
BlueSeats
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12/29/2005  1:40 AM
Posted by martin:

my god what a fickle crowd we have become.

Isiah has to know that he is limited and would never let Brown step down so quickly or take the helm without a surefire sigh that they were doing well.

I'm not fickle. Other than a downward evolution of my feelings toward Marbury which occurred steadily over his first 4-12 months with us, my feelings have barely budged on any of our players or coaches. Oh, I also once thought F-Will and later TT could be productive for us.

I am hardly advocating a coaching change, but thru this constant turmoil the rumors of fallout between Isiah and Larry are inevitable. I'm just fishing for thoughts on who people think would be better suited to coaching this roster, with the understanding that past favorites, like Flip or Doc, are not currently available.
SlimPack
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12/29/2005  1:47 AM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by martin:

my god what a fickle crowd we have become.

Isiah has to know that he is limited and would never let Brown step down so quickly or take the helm without a surefire sigh that they were doing well.

I'm not fickle. Other than a downward evolution of my feelings toward Marbury which occurred steadily over his first 4-12 months with us, my feelings have barely budged on any of our players or coaches. Oh, I also once thought F-Will and later TT could be productive for us.

I am hardly advocating a coaching change, but thru this constant turmoil the rumors of fallout between Isiah and Larry are inevitable. I'm just fishing for thoughts on who people think would be better suited to coaching this roster, with the understanding that past favorites, like Flip or Doc, are not currently available.

while I still think that larry would be better in the long run, I think that if we had to go with another coach, we may as well chose one that can bring fully take advantage of this team's strengths
BlueSeats
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12/29/2005  2:13 AM
Posted by SlimPack:
while I still think that larry would be better in the long run, I think that if we had to go with another coach, we may as well chose one that can bring fully take advantage of this team's strengths


Sure, but that's easier said than done.

After the debacle of last season I think many of us felt the first order of business should be tightening up our D. Hence the early use of malik and AD.

curry in the deep post should be an obvious advantage for us, but he's rarely available.

Pick and Roll between Steph and Frye seems like an obvious threat, but I don't know what things were like here last year, but on realgm and K4L too many people couldn't wait to ship KT out cause he played too far from the paint and played like a "***** SF". If I'm not mistaken fishmike's hatred of KT surpassed even mine for Steph. I'd hate to see Frye fried for playing to far out just to work with Steph.

Jamal... still don't have him figured out. Not sure how best to utilize him. I think at PG, but I'm not sure.

So much is made of Browns "foolishness" for starting a defense and intangiables guy like AD, but SF is our position of greatest weakness/need and I see no obvious remedy there.

I guess if I had my druthers with what we have now I'd play JC, Steph, Ariza/Lee, Frye, Curry at the 1-5 respectively. But having said that I don't know JC can handle the point, I don't know that SM can play and guard the two, SF is weak regardless, Frye is green, Curry is rarely able to play let alone log big minutes. Maybe when curry is out you play Frye at center and Lee at PF.

In any case I'm not sure any of that makes for a winning combo. At least LB is trying to establish a post game and defense first. It's not working out so well, but I can't really fault the concept.

As far as mis-utilizing Steph... I have a hard time believing he doesn't wasn't Steph to penetrate or shoot. he just wants Steph to get his in the flow of the offense, and to make passes that lead to passes, rather than dominating the ball in an attempt to set up all scores. That said, I am surprised we don't see more pick and rolls, and I have no explanations for that, unless LB doesn't feel our bigs can roll.
Nalod
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12/29/2005  7:27 AM

The brown way is what your seeing. He has done this before as its been documented.

I have full faith that him and Isiah are on the same page. Larry understands the task and the fact he came on board too late to impact the roster after we had made so many changes. Im sure he has approved Curry.

We have seen the dumping into curry and the team stands around. Last nite I saw Curry getting the ball in motion which made the flow better and it was much easier for Eddie. I was impressed with his agility and power. And this on still a tender ankle and still way out of shape.

We are giving up way too easy Three pointers, and too many transition points. Our offense is scoring enough, but tighten up those two areas and we are very formitable!

I see progress. I THINK Larry only cares about them working on one or two things a game and not worry about the win. That will come.

We could post a few more victories but they would not be based on the foundation that Larry, his 5 coaches and Isiah want.

Its possible larry's health could fail him and I am sure a back up plan is in place. Larry would take a leave of absence before just leaving.
franco12
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12/29/2005  9:31 AM
if Brown were to retire this year- and I think this is a more likely scenario for next year- I think its either Isiah that has to take over or Herb that gets the gig.

Westphal would be a great choice- herb interviewed him at one point- so its likely he would be added to herb's staff.
JohnWallace44
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12/29/2005  10:34 AM
IT could and should coach in that instance. We may find Marbs to be untradeable and in that case I think onlt Isiah can inspire this bunch.
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rojasmas
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12/29/2005  11:25 AM
We might win a couple games this year!
We could be the Dallas Mavs of the East.
tkf
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12/29/2005  11:32 AM
I don't see Brown retiring, unless his health does fail, but if he did, then I would go after a guy like westphal.Marbs numbers will increase, but to me that is about all, we will get our 35 wins and people will still complain about our lack of coaching. When people start seeing the problem for what it is then we will be better off. We have a PG that doesn't seem to fit with the pieces around him, I mean, Steph did what he wanted when herb was here, when chaney was here and when Lenny was here, and the results were still the same...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
jaydh
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12/29/2005  11:44 AM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by martin:

my god what a fickle crowd we have become.

Isiah has to know that he is limited and would never let Brown step down so quickly or take the helm without a surefire sigh that they were doing well.

I'm not fickle. Other than a downward evolution of my feelings toward Marbury which occurred steadily over his first 4-12 months with us, my feelings have barely budged on any of our players or coaches. Oh, I also once thought F-Will and later TT could be productive for us.

I am hardly advocating a coaching change, but thru this constant turmoil the rumors of fallout between Isiah and Larry are inevitable. I'm just fishing for thoughts on who people think would be better suited to coaching this roster, with the understanding that past favorites, like Flip or Doc, are not currently available.

man, just be patient. like someone said the other day, LB always has a record like this when he first takes over a team. LB and Isiah arent going anywhere. get over it.
TheSage
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12/29/2005  11:50 AM
1. Brown is not retiring
2. I have reluctantly reached the conclusion that Steph is not the long term answer-we have seen spurts of what he can do followed by what appears to be antagonism toward what LB is trying to accomplish. He sometime appears to be VC try to get out of Toronto
3.Isiah will be out before LB is gone unlessthey really are on the same page
4. Some of the expiring contracts will be moved for picks and contracts with or without getting any significant upgrade in talent
5. The younger players will get increasingly more time
6.We will probably not be a playoff team but will be better than many of them by seasons end

[Edited by - TheSage on 12-29-2005 11:51 AM]
BlueSeats
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12/29/2005  12:26 PM
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by martin:

my god what a fickle crowd we have become.

Isiah has to know that he is limited and would never let Brown step down so quickly or take the helm without a surefire sigh that they were doing well.

I'm not fickle. Other than a downward evolution of my feelings toward Marbury which occurred steadily over his first 4-12 months with us, my feelings have barely budged on any of our players or coaches. Oh, I also once thought F-Will and later TT could be productive for us.

I am hardly advocating a coaching change, but thru this constant turmoil the rumors of fallout between Isiah and Larry are inevitable. I'm just fishing for thoughts on who people think would be better suited to coaching this roster, with the understanding that past favorites, like Flip or Doc, are not currently available.

man, just be patient. like someone said the other day, LB always has a record like this when he first takes over a team. LB and Isiah arent going anywhere. get over it.

huh? it was a hypothetical.

i support brown. he might just be the best thing going for this team right now.
gunsnewing
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12/29/2005  12:33 PM
I wanted Isiah to coach the players he drafted last year before we got Larry Brown. I'm perfectly happy having Larry Brown as our coach as he continues to weed out the wussies and teach the guys who want to learn. It may take a while but it's going to be very rewarding once this organization gets going in the right direction
Killa4luv
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12/29/2005  12:38 PM
PJ carlisimo. Hes a popovich assistant (that means defense) and he knows how to work different kinds of offenses.
gunsnewing
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12/29/2005  12:45 PM
Posted by tkf:

I don't see Brown retiring, unless his health does fail, but if he did, then I would go after a guy like westphal.Marbs numbers will increase, but to me that is about all, we will get our 35 wins and people will still complain about our lack of coaching. When people start seeing the problem for what it is then we will be better off. We have a PG that doesn't seem to fit with the pieces around him, I mean, Steph did what he wanted when herb was here, when chaney was here and when Lenny was here, and the results were still the same...

^^what tkf said!


Hypothetical: If LB was to retire early

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