Here is what is going on in NY

OwnershipPersonally I think the lack of stability in NY is our biggest problem. Noone can last here. As soon as we start losing we blame one guy. Then that guy gets fired or traded and we blame the next guy and so on and so forth. Everytime we trade a guy away the new guy brings us excitement. WE believe he is our savior. Then when it isn't instantly turned around we boo and call for them to be fired or traded. Then they are and we complete the cycle. Ownership knows they don't have to build a team. All they have to do is trade someone away and bring in a new "savior" and the garden will be filled. We complain about this yet show up everytime a new "star" is acquired anyway.

GM's-Our GM's don't manage the team with the future in mind. This is common knowledge but there is a reason behind this. If you need this reason, see above. They know that if they don't win right away they will be fired. Why build a team when I won't be around to see that team excel? I need to be just good enough to have Dolan love me and I'm all set. That's been going on for years. This is why GM's will not truly rebuild in NY, they want to save their jobs

Coach's-Don, Herb and Lenny were never going to play the young guys. Why? Because they aren't crazy. They knew they had no support from anyone. Not the GM's, not the fans. They were placed on an island by themselves and we expected them to build a metropolis. If they lost games they would be fired. They had to do whatever they could to survive. Unfortunately the talent would not allow this. NOw we have a coach that is clearly one of the best of all times. Is clearly sticking to his guns and is clearly willing to teach the young guys and what do we want to do? Fire him because we are losing.

The cycle will never end and us fans are partially to blame. In Milwaukee they have the patience to rebuild. In Chicago they won the titles and can stomach some mediocrity because they understand. In NY we refuse to embrace stability. Let our kids grow. Let our coach teach. Let our GM, well let him build around Curry and Frye and see where it goes. It's either that or the alternative, fire Brown and go with a lesser coach who will be our savior. Fire Isiah and start a new plan yet again. Trade Steph for scraps and find a new "savior" to turn on. It's not going to be easy but patience is the only answer.

Your last paragraph sums it up perfectly Bip.

The cycle will never end and us fans are partially to blame. In Milwaukee they have the patience to rebuild. In Chicago they won the titles and can stomach some mediocrity because they understand. In NY we refuse to embrace stability. Let our kids grow. Let our coach teach. Let our GM, well let him build around Curry and Frye and see where it goes. It's either that or the alternative, fire Brown and go with a lesser coach who will be our savior. Fire Isiah and start a new plan yet again. Trade Steph for scraps and find a new "savior" to turn on. It's not going to be easy but patience is the only answer.

I think thats exactly what needs to go on here and you know what, I don't think it'll ever happen... atleast from a fan standpoint.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 12-22-2005 12:12 PM]

Yeah it's sad but I see it happening myself. Marbs will be traded for another guy that fans will think will turn us around. Or Zeke will be fired to bring in a new know-it-all GM that doesn't have the answers either. Or Larry will retire to get away from this circus that we all provide.

plan was flawed coming in.
plan has changed.
too early too see if new plan flawed.

isiah's knock - he's not patient...and that's scary.

let's see where we are next december as this one's purpose looks to be opening the eyes of management.

Plan A was awful! Plan B is much better. 23 games into it we are bailing?

Isiah is not getting fired.

Isiah is not the messiah! Its a matter of expectations. I was not for his hiring, and hated plan A, but I like whats going on now and long gave up the financial considerations.

My expectations of him were reasonable, and for this season were very low. Dunking Nate does not make for a superstar.

Had Isiah known larry was coming things would have been different. But its not.

I hope Isiah does not panic, it never helps dealing from a position of weakness.

ah, a small island of sanity on the forum. Good to know some people still have their heads on straight.

i dont agree with this and here is why.

i do not believe that q-rich, Jamal crawford or Steph marb will change.
That means the entire core of very high paid wings and PG do not have the ability to play up to a winning level. They each have their own flaws and ALL play terrible defense. I do not like Crawford's thin build at 2G.

we have consistently been destroyed. This is no an all 22+ under team where that MIGHt occur, this team has expensive vets up and down the roster. you have 4-5 years in the nBA--you are a VET since the average career is less than 7 years. and the one rookie who does get regular time actually has been our most consistent player

I played baketball through college, I have sat in on atleast 30-40 Uconn practices since 1991, so from just spending my own time on a college team and then watching perhaps a top 10 all time coach right up first hand, I feel comfortable saying there is no Larry Brown conspiracy--this is a scky spoiled low IQ team thrown together inchorenetly and I dont see the team *as is* making huge strides because of the guards and wings. We also lack a solid 3rd big who can rebound block shots maybe intimidate a bit we dont really have good interior or exterior defenders. This is why we give up so many points. The first line of defense stinks as does the second line. A sht team should still play good defense with a coach like brown, so right now we are below sht.

Sure we have frye and Curry, which IS the ONLY promise the ONLY promise let me say it again the ONLY promise that I see, and its not a bad promise, but with all those massive contracts in place with these other players and no lottery picks for atleast 3 years--payroll to the gazoo--its going to be hard to do something unless we admit huge chunks again, indeed have to br stripped --IF we can even do it.

OF course the caveat is also Curry, because he is one of the big hopes on this team. I over-rated him at the time of the trade, simply because Im a fan. I wanted him--like everyobne else to be a 25-10 player by playing more minutes but hes not and he WONT unless he loses 25+ pounds and puts in more dedication and heart to his game.


these guys like lee + ariza--these guys havent been big parts of the roster for the most part. Ariza is still way to raw and david lee just isnt good enough to command bigger minutes. Larry brown hasnt sat Lee because hes good, if he was good he would be in there like Frye. Not saying he cant bet better, but hes not right now--hes a tweener.

this thread overvalues the roster, and denotes some kind of master plan by larry brown and its not right.

we have hope in the two guys upfront the rest is awful

Posted by bobs3304:

^ agreed. the future is frye, curry, and brown.

i like how crawford's been playing when he receives minutes, i think he's a keeper.

i think Isiah HAS TO keep Nate and Lee.

Everyone else is expendable.

if it cost me ariza nate lee butler to help gut this team of its core wings to get lower cased contracts and maybe a pick or two, i do it. we may have to invest in BUYING draft picks, so we can identify 2-3 wings that can fit in the right way with the team. This has to go to a full out rebuild with curry and frye in place. HOPEFULLY with a solid draft where w e plugged 2-3 guards--wings that are high IQ, two way players and find a TEMPO PG.
Its going to take 2-3 years of this but if we can acquire 3-4 nice piks in the next two years, make 2 VERY VERY solid MLE signings and maybe a trade brings back a guy like a luther head? that we can completely re-adjust this team

^ I wouldn't drop Crawford unless it's for an upgrade in talent in the backcourt.

Q Rich for K-Thom is something I'd consider for sure.