Unhappy anniversary

Isiah Thomas has been Knicks president for two years and has made many moves aimed at bettering the team. Few have worked out that way.

December 30, 2003
Trades Clarence Weatherspoon to Rockets for Moochie Norris and John Amaechi
Norris averages 3.5 points over 68 games as a Knick before being traded back to Rockets for the equally overpaid Maurice Taylor.

January 5, 2004
Trades Howard Eisley, Charlie Ward, Antonio McDyess, Maciej Lampe, Milos Vujanic and two first-round draft picks to Suns for Stephon Marbury, Penny Hardaway and Cezary Trybanski
Marbury leads Knicks to playoffs, then falls out of favor after declaring himself "best point guard in NBA." Hardaway is a non-entity with an albatross contract. Expiring contracts allow Suns to generate salary cap room to sign Steve Nash and reach Western Conference finals the next season.

February 15, 2004
Trades Keith Van Horn to Bucks and Michael Doleac to Hawks for Tim Thomas and Nazr Mohammed
Just as Doleac is becoming productive pick-and-roll partner for Marbury, he is dealt along with the underwhelming Van Horn. Only problem is, Thomas, acquired to bring "athleticism," is even more underwhelming, as 6-10 forward has no presence on boards. Mohammed shows promise, but lasts just 12½ months at Garden.

March 12, 2004
Signs Vin Baker
A project after flaming out in Boston. What makes less sense is re-signing Baker after project fails.

August 18, 2004
Trades Frank Williams, Othella Harrington, Dikembe Mutombo & Cezary Trybanski to Bulls for Jamal Crawford & Jerome Williams
Trade doesn't do much for Bulls, but Crawford signs long-term deal to add another player with a hefty contract and no defense.

February 24, 2005
Trades Nazr Mohammed, Jamison Brewer and two first-round picks to Spurs for Malik Rose
Rose has no interest in playing for Knicks, and is of little use to the team. Mohammed, averaging 10.9 points and 8.1 rebounds at the time of his trade, gives Spurs the frontcourt depth they need as they go on to win NBA title.

June 28, 2005
Trades Kurt Thomas and Dijon Thompson to Suns for Quentin Richardson and Nate Robinson
Productive power forward goes to Phoenix for wayward-shooting swingman and energetic but enigmatic rookie.

August 2, 2005
Signs Jerome James
Five years, $30 million down the drain for center who rates as backup at best.

August 15, 2005
Waives Jerome Williams
Only Isiah could use the Allan Houston Rule to not get rid of Allan Houston. Knick prez catches a break when Houston retires before season.

October 14, 2005
Trades Tim Thomas, Michael Sweetney, two second-round picks and a first-round pick to the Bulls for Eddy Curry and Antonio Davis
Could be a good deal if Curry ever gets in condition, but center with questionable ticker has also had leg woes since arriving at Garden out of shape.

pretty bad

I guess after two years he gets his. Gee, how long before we call for his head.

Layden was brutalized but had a decent record, and now Isiah. I rooted for Laydog and tried to understand his process. I understand Isiahs process,and root for him the same to succeed.

I rooted for the end of starphuching and go young. We have done this and must accept the price to pay to do this. Some draft picks, big money, and patience while the process is worked.

Slamming this team, this process, and the coach makes for good press.

Its a process. The rookies must got thru this, the vets must be played and found wanting, and a few tweeks still need to be done.

Layden had a decent record????? What, what, what???

Posted by Bippity10:

Layden had a decent record????? What, what, what???

Did we not have a 50 win season? I thought I read he was only 3 games under .500 in his tenure.

ITs a whole lot better than Isiahs 2 years.

I don't bash Isiah cuz I did not bash Layden. There are circumstances with each of those guys. Im not defending either, certainly not Laydens, but "I UNDERSTAND!".

Isiah angers me from time to time but nothing like Layden, who we were in desperate need to get rid of. The guy just kept digging us in the same whole and digging and digging and burying deeper and we were going nowhere with him. Sweetney and Frank Williams weren't progressing, there's was too much turbulence in terms of the coaching situation, Chaney fighting for his job. NOW, with Isiah, we can improve, as much of a pain in the neck moves he's done, like James. But he still has work to complete. Layden finished his job and it was his time to go.

Posted by Allanfan20:

Isiah angers me from time to time but nothing like Layden, who we were in desperate need to get rid of. The guy just kept digging us in the same whole and digging and digging and burying deeper and we were going nowhere with him. Sweetney and Frank Williams weren't progressing, there's was too much turbulence in terms of the coaching situation, Chaney fighting for his job. NOW, with Isiah, we can improve, as much of a pain in the neck moves he's done, like James. But he still has work to complete. Layden finished his job and it was his time to go.

I agree with this statement. I wasn't bother about Layden until his draft moves. Like 2000, where he selected Harvey only to trade him for Strickland.

Like I mention in the other post, hoopshype

http://www.hoopshype.com/general_managers/scott_layden.htm

Posted by Bippity10:

My problem with Layden stems from the fact that he was building our team around Dice, even after Dice went down with the second knee injury. He was waiting for Dice to come back and save him. Then you add the Utah crap on top of that and bingo

That is a bunch of BS, Layden was never banking the future of the Knicks on Dice, that was the media and you know it.

LAyden even said that Dice was not a savior to the team, Layden was not that stupid, this is one thing I am very sure about, the NY media made it impossible for Dice to co-exsist in NY by labeling him as a savior and then the so -called subsquent failure. This is exactly the thing Bip was talking about, a big star not getting fair treatment from the NY media and the fans as well.

Posted by attaboy2005:

Posted by Bippity10:

My problem with Layden stems from the fact that he was building our team around Dice, even after Dice went down with the second knee injury. He was waiting for Dice to come back and save him. Then you add the Utah crap on top of that and bingo

That is a bunch of BS, Layden was never banking the future of the Knicks on Dice, that was the media and you know it.

I have to agree with Bip. Trading your best up-and-coming big guy(Camby) and your lotto pick(Nene) for an end of the round pick and AD did appear as though Layden expected big things from him. Otherwise, what would be the point of trading your best big guy(and Nene) on a bigman deprived team.

Posted by jaydh:
I have to agree with Bip. Trading your best up-and-coming big guy(Camby) and your lotto pick(Nene) for an end of the round pick and AD did appear as though Layden expected big things from him. Otherwise, what would be the point of trading your best big guy(and Nene) on a bigman deprived team.

Layden definitely wanted Dyess as another all-star with Allan, and kept saying "lets wait till Antonio is back to see what we've got" and that waiting is what kept him employed as long as it did. But the other factor was his desire to move Camby as part of his "character" rebuilding. He hated Camby since that fight with Danny Ferry that got JVG punched in the face, ad then the bad karma with the situation with his sister during the playoffs.

It was part of the whole Utah to NY program of bringing in choirboys and removing anyone with testicles or with whom Dolan didn't pray.

One thing I think we've seen - without trying to defend either Layden or Thomas - is how hard it has been for the Knicks to make decent trades with the newer salary cap rules.

Of course we had to get rid of guys like Weatherspoon, Eisley, and Norris. But otherwise, the only trade either of these gms has made that I've really liked was the one for Curry. That was another gamble, but I think a worthwhile one.



[Edited by - BASKETBALLJONES on 12-20-2005 3:01 PM]