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Boy, why dont they even give david lee a tiny run?
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martin
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12/13/2005  11:53 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

When David earns it? What has he done to suggest he earned less time than Malik and AD?

I think there is a big difference between earning playing time through hustle and effort versus seeing the skills develop to the point where they turn into a positive on the court during a game. Lee's shot is about as good as AD's or Rose's. AD/Rose KNOW how to play team D and KNOW where to be on the court on O, something David, as a rookie, needs to learn.
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Bonn1997
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12/14/2005  12:03 AM
Look at the +/- #s. AD is at -29.4 and Lee is at +8.8. I know you can't blindly follow those #s but aren't they good enough for Lee to suggest he shouldn't have seven consecutive DNP-CDs? If he's a nice young player and you know the team does well with him on the court (and poorly with him off the court), why not give him a couple of minutes each game?

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 12-14-2005 12:04 AM]
BasketballJones
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12/14/2005  12:06 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:

Look at the +/- #s. AD is at -29.4 and Lee is at +8.8. I know you can't blindly follow those #s but aren't they good enough for Lee to suggest he shouldn't have seven consecutive DNP-CDs? If he's a nice young player and you know the team does well with him on the court (and poorly with him off the court), why not give him a couple of minutes each game?

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 12-14-2005 12:04 AM]


That's interesting because my subjective impression is that good things happen when he's out there.
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PhilinLA
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12/14/2005  12:15 AM
Posted by King1:

Briggs I am with you. David is learning a position he has never played before. You will see his time go up in the near future. This kid understand the game can pass and rebound. He isnt a big scorer but he can do what Ariza and rose does. I just think you will see some moves in the next two days. I really dont think Lee will be traded. I am hearing Q, Rose and Ariza in a three way deal for Artest

I've heard Ariza is on the way out. Didn't know if it was for Artest or someone else who can play 3.
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crzymdups
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12/14/2005  12:18 AM
Posted by PhilinLA:
Posted by King1:

Briggs I am with you. David is learning a position he has never played before. You will see his time go up in the near future. This kid understand the game can pass and rebound. He isnt a big scorer but he can do what Ariza and rose does. I just think you will see some moves in the next two days. I really dont think Lee will be traded. I am hearing Q, Rose and Ariza in a three way deal for Artest

I've heard Ariza is on the way out. Didn't know if it was for Artest or someone else who can play 3.

Where are both of you hearing this stuff? Actual sources? How soon? Man, I would hate to lose Trevor, but it's clear Larry doesn't like him... and if it brings Artest back, obviously it's worth it...

¿ △ ?
PhilinLA
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12/14/2005  12:32 AM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by PhilinLA:
Posted by King1:

Briggs I am with you. David is learning a position he has never played before. You will see his time go up in the near future. This kid understand the game can pass and rebound. He isnt a big scorer but he can do what Ariza and rose does. I just think you will see some moves in the next two days. I really dont think Lee will be traded. I am hearing Q, Rose and Ariza in a three way deal for Artest

I've heard Ariza is on the way out. Didn't know if it was for Artest or someone else who can play 3.

Where are both of you hearing this stuff? Actual sources? How soon? Man, I would hate to lose Trevor, but it's clear Larry doesn't like him... and if it brings Artest back, obviously it's worth it...
Did you notice my posts while the Curry deal was going down? Sometime I hear `tings. I haven't heard Artest, but obviously what I heard about Ariza, and the signing of Woods, makes it seem like a big time 3 is coming our way.

http://amonthhoffundays.blogspot.com/ We got a ringer.
crzymdups
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12/14/2005  12:34 AM
Posted by PhilinLA:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by PhilinLA:
Posted by King1:

Briggs I am with you. David is learning a position he has never played before. You will see his time go up in the near future. This kid understand the game can pass and rebound. He isnt a big scorer but he can do what Ariza and rose does. I just think you will see some moves in the next two days. I really dont think Lee will be traded. I am hearing Q, Rose and Ariza in a three way deal for Artest

I've heard Ariza is on the way out. Didn't know if it was for Artest or someone else who can play 3.

Where are both of you hearing this stuff? Actual sources? How soon? Man, I would hate to lose Trevor, but it's clear Larry doesn't like him... and if it brings Artest back, obviously it's worth it...
Did you notice my posts while the Curry deal was going down? Sometime I hear `tings. I haven't heard Artest, but obviously what I heard about Ariza, and the signing of Woods, makes it seem like a big time 3 is coming our way.

I remember very well, and that's why I want to know what you know! oh well, just keep us posted.

for some reason, I really feel like we're getting Artest. it feels like it's a good fit for both teams and Artest's agent will do some steering behind the scenes.
¿ △ ?
PhilinLA
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12/14/2005  12:41 AM
you might be right about that. That's the best story and might be best for the League. All I've heard was trades were on the way, and when I asked about the kids, I was told maybe Ariza would go, but it would be for someone good.
http://amonthhoffundays.blogspot.com/ We got a ringer.
Bippity10
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12/14/2005  10:12 AM
Again, you miss the point. It doesn't matter if he has earned it in OUR EYES, or on some statistical website. It only matters when he earns it with LB. Then he will play. His time will come but you will have to be patient. For once we are not playing for an 8th seed, we are playing to build a team. LB has made it clear that the youngins will clearly have to outplay the vets to play. I'm alright with that. David's growth is not being stunted. Kwame has been given minutes for no reason and look at his growth. David is a motivated guy and will be hungrier as the season goes on. This only helps us.
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nitro
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12/14/2005  10:22 AM
Hopefully Lee will get some run now. I am thinking he should be the 4 man behind Channing. Bulter should be the 5 man behind Eddie. We will see with these guys getting extended mintues, how good they are. Let the five vets help the young guys in practice and then let their contracts expire., try to trade JJ and Malik.
Bonn1997
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12/14/2005  12:21 PM
Again, you miss the point. It doesn't matter if he has earned it in OUR EYES, or on some statistical website. It only matters when he earns it with LB.
It sounds like LB has some crazy expectations about what Lee needs to do to earn it but maybe it will work out.
Bippity10
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12/14/2005  12:33 PM
Bonn: I used to have this policy where I never would start freshman. This of course was bogus but everyone bought into it because I never started freshmen. They all would bitch and moan about how unfair it was. I had a lot of talented freshman but I knew that I would not win with any of them.

Then one day I had three freshman walk into my gym. From day one they were better than my starters. Because I only care about championships I prayed this would be different. I prayed that they wouldn't be boneheads. I prayed they wouldn't be mentally weak and whine and moan because I was going to give my less talented vets the benefit of the doubt. Because I knew the whiners and complainers felt entitled. And I knew that people who feel entitled will wilt under the pressure when the games become important.

Guess what I sat these guys for 8 games. I was bitched at by everyone. These kids did not whine or complain. They played harder and harder. They came to me to ask why they weren't playing when they were better than the guy ahead of them. I said simply "play harder". Guess what these guys walked out confused but the next day they came in playing even harder. I started working all of them in by game 5. By game 10 they were all starting. By game 20 they wanted to prove to the world that they could outplay all those older than them simply by outworking them.

I could have started them from day one but I did not. I wanted to build winners. I wanted to build guys that will kill for what's rightfully there's. I've done this before and it's completely backfired. But I have enough trophies in my case to say that I will do it again. I DO NOT START FRESHMAN
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Bippity10
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12/14/2005  12:36 PM
LB is a winner. He is going to build a team of winners. David Lee will play. David Lee has proven he belongs. But David Lee must play even harder. David Lee must become Larry's guy. It will happen but you must be patient.
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joec32033
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12/14/2005  12:37 PM
Bip, that is a great philosophy, albeit a risky one because there are some personalities that would respond poorly to something like that (and I don't mean a loser mentality, but some people need to be nurtured as opposed to challenged). I am gonna have to use that.
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Bippity10
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12/14/2005  12:41 PM
I agree, and some coach's will nurture those players and win doing it that way. Some coach's will not. Guys like Riley and LB and Popovich aren't nurturers and never will be. That's just the way LB is. I see the finals appearances and I have to trust LB.
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Bippity10
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12/14/2005  12:44 PM
Guys like LB find "their guys" and then dump all those that can't hang. He's had enough of a career to prove that this works(so does Riley). You will see some of our guys respond to it positively as the season goes on. Other guys will whine and be sent packing. I'm okay with that. But it's going to take more than 20 games to figure it out.
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joec32033
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12/14/2005  12:44 PM
I agree with that 100%. Thing is Larry is also MUCH more of a teacher than either Pop or Riles.
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Knicksfan
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12/14/2005  12:48 PM
Yeah, that's a great philosophy, Bip. You can almost see that happening on the Knicks from day 1, and now we are seeing guys like Frye starting and others like Nate, Ariza and Butler will see more playing time after being all-veterans in the first games. I feel that Larry would like to give Lee that time too but other than him needing to play harder, we have too many PFs for him to do anything. Once we get rid of one or two, I believe Lee will go through the same process the other young players have...
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Knicksfan
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12/14/2005  12:53 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

Guys like LB find "their guys" and then dump all those that can't hang. He's had enough of a career to prove that this works(so does Riley). You will see some of our guys respond to it positively as the season goes on. Other guys will whine and be sent packing. I'm okay with that. But it's going to take more than 20 games to figure it out.

I see him struggle with that because on this roster most of the players aren't "Larry guys", and many of them are very important parts of the team. That's why it has been so tough for him. Its kind of funny that most of the "Larry guys" are the young and inexperienced players.
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Bippity10
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12/14/2005  12:53 PM
Posted by Knicksfan:

Yeah, that's a great philosophy, Bip. You can almost see that happening on the Knicks from day 1, and now we are seeing guys like Frye starting and others like Nate, Ariza and Butler will see more playing time after being all-veterans in the first games. I feel that Larry would like to give Lee that time too but other than him needing to play harder, we have too many PFs for him to do anything. Once we get rid of one or two, I believe Lee will go through the same process the other young players have...

Yup. David will be on the court in due time.

I just hope that people will like me
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Boy, why dont they even give david lee a tiny run?
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