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i feel bad for steph, move him to sacramento
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djsunyc
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12/13/2005  9:55 AM
man, watching lb trying to change steph is so painful. not only is his skillset being pigeonholed by lb, but he's stuck as he has to wait for frye and curry to evolve into a legitimate playoff ready frontcourt...and that could take another year or two.

i think the BEST situation for steph right now would be to move him to sacratomato.

he gets to finally play with a jumpshooter in peja.
he plays with a pick and pop guy in miller.
he has a post up guy in SAR.
and he will be allowed to do whatever he wants.

GREAT fit for him.

for us, we'd trade him for bibby and skinner.

bibby is clearly a downgrade talent wise but i think he brings us a headier presence and we KNOW he can hit the big shots when it's needed...very chauncy-esque. skinner is just there to make the dollars work and he only has one more year on the deal.
AUTOADVERT
Pharzeone
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12/13/2005  10:06 AM
A big no thanks to Mike Bibby, who has now has a lot to explain why he can't win without C-Webb.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
JayNYC
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12/13/2005  10:07 AM
I said this in the other thread...

I like the deal. Steph is a better scorer. Bibby is the better Point Guard.. plain and simple. He is a leader, and he scores when the game is in the balance. I think he is exactly the type of point guard Larry Brown would want' outside of maybe Steve Nash.

I'd hate to see Stephon go, only because he is a NY dude 4 real.. But I dunno. He doesn't look like he is getting it in the LB system. Sure he's had major improvement defensively, but is that really a stretch. (ALL DEFENSE INVOLVES IS EFFORT!) Offensively he is not doing it, he doesn't look comfortable in his role as a set up man. Bottom line, that's what a point guard is supposed to do! He ain't no two-guard cause he is too small, and can't shoot. He's a talented scorer.. The gift and the curse, not a floor general thats his knock. As big a supporter as I am about Starbury, I dunno if I can justify him being here any longer. Given the make up of the team and what LB is asking him to do.
Inhale deep like the words of my breath/ I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death-- Circa 1994 Nasty Nas: NY State of Mind
Killa4luv
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12/13/2005  10:07 AM
Excuse me whle I earl

This is not the kind of trade you make for Steph. What is the purpose of downgrading at the pg? To get Brian Skinner? Yeah just what we need, another PG who plays no D, and another mediocre PF.

Then you have to think about Bibby and Crawford together. Defensively that would be the weakest backcourt in the league.

What are going for? The all-no defense team, h and by the way we have the defensive player of the year? Its illogical.

Style of play wise, it makes infinitely more sense to ship Craw out to Sac-town for Bonzi who is in his last year and is putting up 16 an 8 boards. Bonzi plays D, and rebounds, and thats the kind of player we should be looking for. Not a less talented version of a player we have, plus another run-of-the-mill pf.
Bonn1997
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12/13/2005  10:09 AM
i feel bad for steph, move him to sacramento
Why? If we do this deal, then we have to feel bad for both Steph and Bibby!
djsunyc
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12/13/2005  10:11 AM
in a perfect world, getting bibby would be predicated on getting artest.

crawford AND bibby can not start together nor will they. crawford is a point in lb's eyes, not a SG. if we get bibby, then crawford is the permanent backup PG.

i admit we downgrade talent-wise but do we downgrade PG-wise?

it would look like this: bibby, artest, SF TBD, frye, curry with craw, nate, qyntel, mo/skinner, butler/james

crawford's trade value right now is DOO DOO. you really can't get anything for him, that's why i never mention him in trades. he's only really valuable to us. nobody is taking that contract back.
rvhoss
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12/13/2005  10:17 AM
last night, it felt like it was the breaking point for steph, he reverted back to his scowling at other players: e.g. for curry "not coming to the ball.

I think this is directly related to Brown forcing his will on the players and not allowing them to improvise on offense, but to do EXACTLY what he says...get the ball to curry, get it to him regardless if he has 4 guys around him and they are playing zone.

I think brown needs to turn marbs lose or allow him to be traded, because this Marbury, while he's playing the "right way", ain't no marbury I know of, we can put anybody out there to play like that.

I think even baron davis would be lost as a PG in this offense, which appears to be made for a crappy PG with skills similar to LB's. Either that or Marbs is petrified to deviate from the offense or risk being benched the next game and losing his consecutive start streak.

Something has to happen, because we just wasted 30 points from our rookie.

While I'm all for getting better each game, and I still see tons of improvement from possession to possession, it's hard coming to this board after losses and it's taking all the fun out of being a fan constantly arguing with "knick fans"

When you argue with non knick fans, they don't usually have enough knick bashing information to mount an argument, but defending the knicks to knowledgeable knick fans is tiresome.

so, please knicks, get a win...otherwise, I'm going to have to go back to rooting for the NBA and my fantasy team.

Marbs is being killed and it's not fun to watch...when are we going to be allowed to deviate from the coach with the iron fist?

Are we still just growing, because if this is the fact, then everything is perfect. We were 16-13 last year and that got us NOTHING.

ok, i'm better
all kool aid all the time.
rvhoss
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12/13/2005  10:18 AM
^ ramble alert
all kool aid all the time.
Pharzeone
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12/13/2005  10:18 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

in a perfect world, getting bibby would be predicated on getting artest.

crawford AND bibby can not start together nor will they. crawford is a point in lb's eyes, not a SG. if we get bibby, then crawford is the permanent backup PG.

i admit we downgrade talent-wise but do we downgrade PG-wise?

it would look like this: bibby, artest, SF TBD, frye, curry with craw, nate, qyntel, mo/skinner, butler/james

crawford's trade value right now is DOO DOO. you really can't get anything for him, that's why i never mention him in trades. he's only really valuable to us. nobody is taking that contract back.

Bibby has been just as horrible as Marbury this season. Not the same player that help take his team to conference finals a couple of years ago. I think without Bobby Jackson, Bibby has been exploited as being a little overrated.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
SlimPack
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12/13/2005  10:23 AM
brown should be fired, before marbury should get traded. all of this is his fault.
djsunyc
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12/13/2005  10:24 AM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by djsunyc:

in a perfect world, getting bibby would be predicated on getting artest.

crawford AND bibby can not start together nor will they. crawford is a point in lb's eyes, not a SG. if we get bibby, then crawford is the permanent backup PG.

i admit we downgrade talent-wise but do we downgrade PG-wise?

it would look like this: bibby, artest, SF TBD, frye, curry with craw, nate, qyntel, mo/skinner, butler/james

crawford's trade value right now is DOO DOO. you really can't get anything for him, that's why i never mention him in trades. he's only really valuable to us. nobody is taking that contract back.

Bibby has been just as horrible as Marbury this season. Not the same player that help take his team to conference finals a couple of years ago. I think without Bobby Jackson, Bibby has been exploited as being a little overrated.

i agree, bibby has been doo doo as well. they both need a change of scenery. bibby without webber is just not working. marbury not being able to dominate the ball for the whole game is just not working. let's swap them up. i remember bibby getting the ball back as the 3rd or 4th option in the offense and hitting big shots after big shots IN THE PLAYOFFS. i remember marbury dropping 20 & 8 everynight when allowed to control the ball. neither player are allowed to do that anymore. with curry and frye, bibby works. with peja, miller, and SAR, steph works. it's like a steph for kidd swap on a lower scale now.
Allanfan20
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12/13/2005  10:25 AM
A little overrated. I always kinda thought so. But is he good and can he hit the big shots and do a decent job distributing the basketabll? Yes. But is this trade really going to help us? Probably not. I see no sense in doing this trade. I like Bibby, but he's close to the same age as Marbury, he wouldn't make the team any better than how Marbury did and we would have nobody on the team to keep us in games when everyone else is doing bad. If you're going to trade Marbury, you have to do it for a guy who either is (ANd for a long time) or will be an all star calibre player, like Emeka, which the Bobcats would never do anyway.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
rvhoss
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12/13/2005  10:25 AM

Posted by SlimPack:

brown should be fired, before marbury should get traded. all of this is his fault.

all kool aid all the time.
djsunyc
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12/13/2005  10:25 AM
Posted by SlimPack:

brown should be fired, before marbury should get traded. all of this is his fault.


fire a career winning coach for a pg that's never won. intersting take slimpack...
McK1
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12/13/2005  10:26 AM
Posted by Pharzeone:

A big no thanks to Mike Bibby, who has now has a lot to explain why he can't win without C-Webb.

no he doesn't. Without C-Webb they were something like 48-16 and in 1st place 2 yrs ago.

after the Webber trade last year they went 18-12 .600 winning % with 2 new starters and time to gel.

when was the last time Steph had a team 6 games over .500 for any stretch?

Bibby is a leader, he can run a motion offense, he has a better outside shot, he is better in transition, his court vision is better, and he takes and makes more clutch shots.

[Edited by - McK1 on 12-13-2005 10:27 AM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
djsunyc
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12/13/2005  10:27 AM
Posted by Allanfan20:

A little overrated. I always kinda thought so. But is he good and can he hit the big shots and do a decent job distributing the basketabll? Yes. But is this trade really going to help us? Probably not. I see no sense in doing this trade. I like Bibby, but he's close to the same age as Marbury, he wouldn't make the team any better than how Marbury did and we would have nobody on the team to keep us in games when everyone else is doing bad. If you're going to trade Marbury, you have to do it for a guy who either is (ANd for a long time) or will be an all star calibre player, like Emeka, which the Bobcats would never do anyway.

i'm sorry but what kind of fantasy world are you guys living in? marbury is OWED over $60 mil for FOUR MORE YEARS. HE'S NEVER WON!!! who in the world will take that back? atlanta? toronto? minny? and what the hell are they going to give us? bibby would be the BEST talent we can get back in a deal. they won't dump marbury for nothing. but a trade like this is one the knicks will jump all over. moving steph is VERY TUFF and ultimately, they may not be able to do it.
Killa4luv
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12/13/2005  10:29 AM
Hey guys, he missed practice with the flu, do you think it makes sense that he was not feeling well last night? Its the only thing that makes any sense. Even when he is playing poorly he attacks the rim and he didn't do it at all last night.
McK1
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12/13/2005  10:31 AM
Bibby is as good as ever. Its the play of Stojokovic along with the curse of SAR that has caused the Kings early woes.

Stojo is unhappy in Sac and has been eying the day he can opt-out since the start of last season. Most rumors have him going to Chicago. Vescey said Miami is on his short list as well.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
djsunyc
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12/13/2005  10:32 AM
Posted by Killa4luv:

Hey guys, he missed practice with the flu, do you think it makes sense that he was not feeling well last night? Its the only thing that makes any sense. Even when he is playing poorly he attacks the rim and he didn't do it at all last night.


i don't think this has to do with last night killa. lb has been hinting at this all year long. just watching it, you can see steph playing with his nuts chopped off. something is off right now. i'm not hating on steph...i'm not, seriously. can't you see how difficult it is for him? you're a fan of his, are you happy with what we're doing with him? or more important, what we're doing TO him?
Allanfan20
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12/13/2005  10:32 AM
I understand that, and I never said the KNicks will be able to trade Marbury for Okafor. I said that's the type of talent that would be best for us to get if we trade Marbury. But I see this as a trade as a trade for the sake of making a trade and really nothing much else. Yes, Bibby is a winner. But lets put Marbury in a position with all this talent he has before trading him for lesser players like Mike Bibby. Again, I LIKE Mike Bibby. I always have. In fact, I'll for far enough to say that I'm no Steph lover. But I don't see Bibby improving the team anymore than Marbury did. I'm pretty sure we can do better than Bibby anyway. I'd rather get a couple of draft picks.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
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i feel bad for steph, move him to sacramento
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