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why isiah should trade stephon marbury
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djsunyc
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12/11/2005  2:42 PM
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by WOODMANnYk:

Isiah does need to trade MArbury while he still got value. Poeple should realize that this guy will not win a championship especially with the Knicks..

neither did ewing, i guess we shoulda traded him when he still had value rather than building our team around that loser for 10+years...

and therein lies the flaw...we SHOULD NOT BE BUILDING OUR TEAM AROUND STEPH!!! and thank goodness, i don't think we aren't. the team, if you really look at it, is being built around craw, frye, and curry. that's why i keep questioning where marbury "fits" in this whole thing.
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BigC
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12/11/2005  2:55 PM
The thought of building around Marbury is just ridiculous. His game and basketball knowledge is not increase. As a matter of fact he looks like he is declining. I would rather have a point like Ford over Marbury any day of the week.

Everyone calls Marbury a superstar yet he can't close out games. Every great pass, and easy bucket to other players on our team has come from Jamal not Marbury.
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jaydh
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12/11/2005  2:58 PM
Posted by BigC:

Everyone calls Marbury a superstar yet he can't close out games. Every great pass, and easy bucket to other players on our team has come from Jamal not Marbury.

when jamal plays the PG, i NEVER see him penetrate, rather he just passes the ball around the perimeter.
BlueSeats
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12/11/2005  3:11 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

Is that the team's +/- figures by position for the player? (I think that's how win% is determined.) If so, we've already discussed how anyone who plays most of their minutes with AD will have their #s skewed.

Care to speculate on why Steph gets to lead the stilted offense half-court guys and Jamal gets to lead the athletic up-tempo hustlers?
jaydh
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12/11/2005  3:14 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by Bonn1997:

Is that the team's +/- figures by position for the player? (I think that's how win% is determined.) If so, we've already discussed how anyone who plays most of their minutes with AD will have their #s skewed.

Care to speculate on why Steph gets to lead the stilted offense half-court guys and Jamal gets to lead the athletic up-tempo hustlers?


because steph cant play the entire game?
BlueSeats
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12/11/2005  3:28 PM
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by Bonn1997:

Is that the team's +/- figures by position for the player? (I think that's how win% is determined.) If so, we've already discussed how anyone who plays most of their minutes with AD will have their #s skewed.

Care to speculate on why Steph gets to lead the stilted offense half-court guys and Jamal gets to lead the athletic up-tempo hustlers?


because steph cant play the entire game?

Funny. unfortunately it goes nowhere toward explaining why Robinson has better numbers playing with AD (the apparent new team killer) than Steph.
Bonn1997
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12/11/2005  4:09 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by Bonn1997:

Is that the team's +/- figures by position for the player? (I think that's how win% is determined.) If so, we've already discussed how anyone who plays most of their minutes with AD will have their #s skewed.

Care to speculate on why Steph gets to lead the stilted offense half-court guys and Jamal gets to lead the athletic up-tempo hustlers?


because steph cant play the entire game?

Funny. unfortunately it goes nowhere toward explaining why Robinson has better numbers playing with AD (the apparent new team killer) than Steph.

What #s are you referring to with Robinson and AD vs. Marbury and AD?
McK1
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12/11/2005  4:51 PM
Marbury & Ariza for Skip Swift & Wesley
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
BlueSeats
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12/11/2005  5:29 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Funny. unfortunately it goes nowhere toward explaining why Robinson has better numbers playing with AD (the apparent new team killer) than Steph.

What #s are you referring to with Robinson and AD vs. Marbury and AD?

It's not that I have specific numbers which show that Robinson is better with Davis than Steph, it's just that I also don't have specific numbers which show that Davis is directly responsible for bringing Steph's overall numbers down, thus I default to their overall numbers, of which Nate's are better than Steph's.

Check out the 5-man units from 82games:

http://www.82games.com/0506/0506NYK2.HTM

Fine, Marbury's best percentage unit (# 6) comes without Davis, but his next three best (#s 8, 2, 1) contain Davis.

Similarly for Nate, his best unit (#4) comes without AD, but his following best units (10, 5) include AD.

So is there anything to conclude that AD is the specific factor that skews Marbury's overall +/- so much lower than Nates?

If this is all about numbers show me which numbers you are basing Marbury's playmaking supremacy on?
djsunyc
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12/11/2005  6:10 PM 

                Marbury           Crawford
               Min    +/-        Min    +/-
Robinson       148   +2.9        168   +9.4
Steph+Craw     367   -5.4        367   -5.4
Hardaway       29    +16.4       28    +1.7
Richardson     300   -6.1        117   -0.8
Barnes         88    -21.1       18    -51.1
Ariza          229   +5.0        210   +5.7
Lee            84    -6.8        89    +5.4
Taylor         117   +4.1        136   +0.7
Rose           228   -6.9        172   -7.8
Davis          385   -17.8       219   -20.1
Curry          235   -11.8       160   -12.6
Butler         86    +11.7       78    +11.7
Frye           317   +3.6        274   +11.9
James          51    -13.2       25    +5.7


here's my metaphor between crawford and marbury...

crawford is like this wet piece of clay. he can be shaped, molded, transformed into anything lb wants to. if you mess up, you can get some more clay, some more water, and rebuild it or even add more clay to keep making it bigger and bigger.

marbury is like this big marble block that needs to be chiseled down. this process can take a while and while you keep chiseling away, you kind of keep getting smaller and smaller.

where we are as a franchise, i would rather build something out of clay than chiseling down a piece of marble.


[Edited by - djsunyc on 12-11-2005 7:34 PM]
Bonn1997
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12/11/2005  7:28 PM
Those are interesting #s. How did you get them? One problem is that when Marbury's playing with any of those players, AD (who I think has the worst +/- in the league) is usually on the court too. It would be great to get the +/- #s for all five man rotations involving Marbury that Davis is excluded from
islesfan
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12/12/2005  12:10 PM
If Isiah trades Marbury, he better get back the 1 if not 2 lottery picks that he gave up to get him. Plus the financial flexibilty that he gave up for Marbury and Penny.

That'll be great when we still have to give up a #1 pick for that trade when Marbury is no longer on the team.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
rvhoss
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12/12/2005  12:14 PM
all kool aid all the time.
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why isiah should trade stephon marbury
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