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why isiah should trade stephon marbury
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djsunyc
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12/10/2005  7:23 PM
rod thorn trades marbury during 00/01 season
rod thorn wins executive of the year in 01/02 season

bryan colangelo trades marbury during 03/04 season
bryan colangelo wins executive of the year in 04/05

with isiah having a nice sized ego, you would think this is a valuable piece of info he could us to feed that ego some more

all in good fun fellas...

[Edited by - djsunyc on 12-10-2005 7:26 PM]
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SlimPack
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12/10/2005  7:25 PM
LMAO at this thread. why? becuase it will inevitably turn into a flame war. good job dj
attaboy2005
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12/10/2005  9:14 PM
Yeah, that's not coincendence either, IT should consider this as a sign to trade Marbury ASAP.
bobs3304
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12/10/2005  10:02 PM
Atlanta would probly give Marbury a try. He's still only 28-29 and has a good 4 years left in him.

Obviously it would involve Harrington + Fillers, but I think I'd rather draw that out into a 3-way b/c I'm not sold that Harrington is the answer at SF.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
Nalod
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12/10/2005  10:08 PM
Can't really ever suggest a Marb trade unless one of components (can be larger plan) to get a point suitable to Marbs.

Atlanta has no such point.

Is Andre Miller or Watson a suitable alternative with championship leadership ablity? Billups wasn't, but became one.

This one takes imagination beyond the obvious.
Rich
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12/10/2005  10:11 PM
They should trade him because he isn't the true PG they need, and he isn't tall enough to guard many of the SGs in the NBA.
BlueSeats
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12/10/2005  11:32 PM
Know what, if the Marbury supporters don't give a hoot about his 19m/yr contract or his ego, lets have Steph come off the bench as our Vinnie Johnson. Give him 25 mpg in a support role where his prime directive is to come out with energy and "fill it up" quick, and I'd support that.

I don't see it as good value for the money, but it's a role for him I could get behind.
Bonn1997
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12/11/2005  12:42 AM
Posted by BlueSeats:

Know what, if the Marbury supporters don't give a hoot about his 19m/yr contract or his ego, lets have Steph come off the bench as our Vinnie Johnson. Give him 25 mpg in a support role where his prime directive is to come out with energy and "fill it up" quick, and I'd support that.

I don't see it as good value for the money, but it's a role for him I could get behind.
Hey if you get two backcourt players who are better than Marbury on this team, then I'd be all in favor of bringing Marbury off the bench.

BlueSeats
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12/11/2005  2:06 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:

Hey if you get two backcourt players who are better than Marbury on this team, then I'd be all in favor of bringing Marbury off the bench.

How about guys that might not obviously be better than him, but guys with which the team clicks better than him?

For instance, i don't know JC to be better than Steph, but I think he might just be the better PG for us. If we take that as a hypothetical truth, then we'd only need a better SG than Steph. Right now we really don't know how good a SG Steph is, but assuming the offense clicks better with another PG we might only need a larger defensive oriented SG, or a guy with a consistent outside shot.

It's about chemistry and match-ups, and Steph always seems to be struggling to find chemistry with teammates as PG, and he might just be an inconsistent shooting and undersized SG. If either of those are true he might be better replaced by seemingly lesser players.
Bonn1997
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12/11/2005  8:19 AM
If Jamal can prove coming off the bench first that he's a better fit than Marbury, then let him start at PG (and if you found another SG who proved the same thing, let him start at SG). There's no reason to make a blind hunch; let the player prove off the bench first that he's earned it over Marbury.
OngBok
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12/11/2005  9:08 AM

New York Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Stephon Marbury
6-2 PG from Georgia Tech
18.5 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 6.5 apg in 39.6 minutes
Quentin Richardson
6-6 SG from DePaul
6.9 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 1.4 apg in 23.8 minutes
Jerome James
7-1 C from Florida A&M
3.3 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 0.2 apg in 8.8 minutes
Trevor Ariza
6-8 SF from UCLA
4.9 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 1.3 apg in 20.2 minutes
Incoming
Austin Croshere
6-10 PF from Providence
8.4 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 1.1 apg in 27.2 minutes
Jonathan Bender
7-0 SF from Picayune Memorial (HS)
5.0 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 1.0 apg in 10.5 minutes
Ron Artest
6-7 SF from St. John's
19.4 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 2.2 apg in 37.8 minutes
Scot Pollard
6-11 C from Kansas
3.3 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 0.0 apg in 13.8 minutes
Jamaal Tinsley
6-3 PG from Iowa State
9.9 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 5.5 apg in 27.5 minutes
Change in team outlook: +12.4 ppg, +6.5 rpg, and +0.4 apg.


Indiana Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Austin Croshere
6-10 PF from Providence
8.4 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 1.1 apg in 27.2 minutes
Jonathan Bender
7-0 SF from Picayune Memorial (HS)
5.0 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 1.0 apg in 10.5 minutes
Ron Artest
6-7 SF from St. John's
19.4 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 2.2 apg in 37.8 minutes
Scot Pollard
6-11 C from Kansas
3.3 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 0.0 apg in 13.8 minutes
Jamaal Tinsley
6-3 PG from Iowa State
9.9 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 5.5 apg in 27.5 minutes
Incoming
Stephon Marbury
6-2 PG from Georgia Tech
18.5 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 6.5 apg in 39.6 minutes
Quentin Richardson
6-6 SG from DePaul
6.9 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 1.4 apg in 23.8 minutes
Jerome James
7-1 C from Florida A&M
3.3 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 0.2 apg in 8.8 minutes
Trevor Ariza
6-8 SF from UCLA
4.9 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 1.3 apg in 20.2 minutes
Change in team outlook: -12.4 ppg, -6.5 rpg, and -0.4 apg.



Successful Scenario
Due to New York and Indiana being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. New York and Indiana had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Trade ID
Every trade made by fans is allocated a unique Trade ID which you can share with friends and fellow basketball fans to allow them to see your trade scenario. The Trade ID for this scenario is 2696860.

Isiah Thomas will lead us back to the playoffs in 2006 !!!
jaydh
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12/11/2005  1:07 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

If Jamal can prove coming off the bench first that he's a better fit than Marbury, then let him start at PG (and if you found another SG who proved the same thing, let him start at SG). There's no reason to make a blind hunch; let the player prove off the bench first that he's earned it over Marbury.

i agree, but from what i've seen, nate is better at running the point than JC. Nate will drive and get in the lane, while JC just stands around the perimeter.
jaydh
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12/11/2005  1:08 PM
why would the pacers want to trade tinsley??
Allanfan20
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12/11/2005  1:20 PM
No sir Ongbook. Giving up WAY WAY WAY too much for a guy who can lose it at any moment, a pg who's kinda overrated, a young injury prone big on the verge of retirement and a couple of DECENT backups, one who is way overpaid.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
djsunyc
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12/11/2005  1:58 PM
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by Bonn1997:

If Jamal can prove coming off the bench first that he's a better fit than Marbury, then let him start at PG (and if you found another SG who proved the same thing, let him start at SG). There's no reason to make a blind hunch; let the player prove off the bench first that he's earned it over Marbury.

i agree, but from what i've seen, nate is better at running the point than JC. Nate will drive and get in the lane, while JC just stands around the perimeter.

nate and steph play the pg position the same way right now.
BlueSeats
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12/11/2005  2:01 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

If Jamal can prove coming off the bench first that he's a better fit than Marbury, then let him start at PG (and if you found another SG who proved the same thing, let him start at SG). There's no reason to make a blind hunch; let the player prove off the bench first that he's earned it over Marbury.

Sorry, I can't get the coding right for all these columns to line up nicely, but if you look at the 82games stats Jamal is holding his own with Steph at PG (higher win %), and Nate is well ahead in all measres. Neither of these guys are considered premier PGs, yet they produce as well as Steph. They also haven't had nearly as many years at the task, so one can only wonder how they'd fair with even moderate development time.



Jamal
	Min	Net 	Off	Def	Net48	W	L	Win%
PG	  2%	-4	  78.8	  88.0	 -9.3	 2	 2	 50%
SG	  54%	-17	  92.7	  94.3	 -1.6	 7	 10	 41%
SF	  6%	-6	  90.9	  94.9	 -3.9	 4	 6	 40%

Steph
	Min	Net 	Off	Def	Net48	W	L	Win%
PG	  60%	-74	  89.2	  95.6	 -6.4	 6	 11	 35%
SG	  21%	+1	  92.3	  91.8	 0.5	 8	 9	 47%

Nate
  Min	 Net Pts	Off	Def	Net48	W	L	Win%
PG	  37%	+24	  95.0	  91.5	 3.5	 12	 7	 63%



So when people say we'd need to bring in players better than Steph some take that to mean premier guys like Nash or Ray Allen, but I don't think the challenge is quite that great.
WOODMANnYk
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12/11/2005  2:19 PM
Isiah does need to trade MArbury while he still got value. Poeple should realize that this guy will not win a championship especially with the Knicks..

The Future. GO KNICKS!
Bonn1997
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12/11/2005  2:23 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by Bonn1997:

If Jamal can prove coming off the bench first that he's a better fit than Marbury, then let him start at PG (and if you found another SG who proved the same thing, let him start at SG). There's no reason to make a blind hunch; let the player prove off the bench first that he's earned it over Marbury.

Sorry, I can't get the coding right for all these columns to line up nicely, but if you look at the 82games stats Jamal is holding his own with Steph at PG (higher win %), and Nate is well ahead in all measres. Neither of these guys are considered premier PGs, yet they produce as well as Steph. They also haven't had nearly as many years at the task, so one can only wonder how they'd fair with even moderate development time.



Jamal
	Min	Net 	Off	Def	Net48	W	L	Win%
PG	  2%	-4	  78.8	  88.0	 -9.3	 2	 2	 50%
SG	  54%	-17	  92.7	  94.3	 -1.6	 7	 10	 41%
SF	  6%	-6	  90.9	  94.9	 -3.9	 4	 6	 40%

Steph
	Min	Net 	Off	Def	Net48	W	L	Win%
PG	  60%	-74	  89.2	  95.6	 -6.4	 6	 11	 35%
SG	  21%	+1	  92.3	  91.8	 0.5	 8	 9	 47%

Nate
  Min	 Net Pts	Off	Def	Net48	W	L	Win%
PG	  37%	+24	  95.0	  91.5	 3.5	 12	 7	 63%



So when people say we'd need to bring in players better than Steph some take that to mean premier guys like Nash or Ray Allen, but I don't think the challenge is quite that great.

Is that the team's +/- figures by position for the player? (I think that's how win% is determined.) If so, we've already discussed how anyone who plays most of their minutes with AD will have their #s skewed.
jaydh
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12/11/2005  2:27 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by Bonn1997:

If Jamal can prove coming off the bench first that he's a better fit than Marbury, then let him start at PG (and if you found another SG who proved the same thing, let him start at SG). There's no reason to make a blind hunch; let the player prove off the bench first that he's earned it over Marbury.

i agree, but from what i've seen, nate is better at running the point than JC. Nate will drive and get in the lane, while JC just stands around the perimeter.

nate and steph play the pg position the same way right now.


and i'd take that over JC at PG anyday.
jaydh
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12/11/2005  2:29 PM
Posted by WOODMANnYk:

Isiah does need to trade MArbury while he still got value. Poeple should realize that this guy will not win a championship especially with the Knicks..

neither did ewing, i guess we shoulda traded him when he still had value rather than building our team around that loser for 10+years...

[Edited by - jaydh on 12-11-2005 2:29 PM]
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