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i am changing my recommendation for steph as SG
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djsunyc
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12/8/2005  1:11 PM
steph SHOULD NOT move to SG. why? b/c he's not good enough to be a fulltime SG. his jumpshot is nowhere near where it needs to be for him to play that position. he can score but it's not a balanced enough way to score to play SG night in and night out. plus the release on his jumper is pretty slow.

that's why lb said we can't put marbury in an AI role. he's a different player and not as gifted a score. percentages may look the same but they're still different in how they score.
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OasisBU
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12/8/2005  1:12 PM
Exactly.
"If at first you don't succeed, then maybe you just SUCK." Kenny Powers
DarkKnicks
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12/8/2005  2:06 PM
Yes, Marbury is DEFINATELY not a SG, he is a GOOD (sometimes great) PG.
bobs3304
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12/8/2005  2:11 PM
Ya he shoots jumpshots from a set release.

If you compared footage of Marbury shooting vs. AI you'd see the huge difference.

DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
Killa4luv
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12/8/2005  2:30 PM
I've been saying this for a long time now. His release is way too slow. He has been off with his jumper pretty much this whole season. And he hasn't been shooting many jumpshots.
Allanfan20
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12/8/2005  2:49 PM
Last Summer, I said I didn't like Steph at the 2 b/c of the defense, but I realized that's exactly why we'd put him there. His defense against bigger guys is really good. But I don't know why he doesn't have confidence in his shot. He certainly did all of last season. My how things in a year can change.
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gunsnewing
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12/8/2005  2:58 PM
ya don't say!
SlimPack
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12/8/2005  2:59 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

steph SHOULD NOT move to SG. why? b/c he's not good enough to be a fulltime SG. his jumpshot is nowhere near where it needs to be for him to play that position. he can score but it's not a balanced enough way to score to play SG night in and night out. plus the release on his jumper is pretty slow.

that's why lb said we can't put marbury in an AI role. he's a different player and not as gifted a score. percentages may look the same but they're still different in how they score.

I still think marbury would be a better 2 guard than a 1. marbury has virtually no pg skills at all, but last night against the clippers in the 1st 2nd and 3rd quarters, he did a good job of not sabotaging the offense with his incessant drives to the hoop, passed the ball early in the shot clock to promote ball movement, and only scored when neceasry. the knicks are a very good team when he does those things. though the thing that scares me is that it's becoming more and more apparent to me that the longer we keep marbury the less his impact will be on the team (becuase as I just pointed out he's most effective when he does basic PG things, which is why the knicks dont miss a beat when he goes to the bench) and the harder it will be to trade him. I'm still uncomfortable with that.



[Edited by - slimpack on 12-08-2005 3:00 PM]
rvhoss
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12/8/2005  3:08 PM
marbury should stay at the point, he seems to be the only one that actually has confidence the entire game to take the shot regardless of the outcome. That's what you need in a scoring PG. And when his shot is off, he seems to get others involved.

none of our other points possess that ability.

how about penny, ad and other trade baits getting playing time over our bigs when we go out west...and december 15th is next week.

Clear the glut and lets see what we got.

It's time for AD to go. Frye and Curry...imagine they drop 18 apiece and craw OR marbs fills it in for the third dominant player (alternating each night).

Ut Oh...i've typed too much.
all kool aid all the time.
BlueSeats
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12/8/2005  3:47 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

steph SHOULD NOT move to SG. why? b/c he's not good enough to be a fulltime SG. his jumpshot is nowhere near where it needs to be for him to play that position. he can score but it's not a balanced enough way to score to play SG night in and night out. plus the release on his jumper is pretty slow.

that's why lb said we can't put marbury in an AI role. he's a different player and not as gifted a score. percentages may look the same but they're still different in how they score.


The tweener nightmare. Versatile enough to play either position but not gifted enough to truly own either. Always looking for a fit.

But look on the bright side, we gave up draft picks, a prospect, and he's virtually untradable. What's not to like?
SlimPack
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12/8/2005  3:58 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by djsunyc:

steph SHOULD NOT move to SG. why? b/c he's not good enough to be a fulltime SG. his jumpshot is nowhere near where it needs to be for him to play that position. he can score but it's not a balanced enough way to score to play SG night in and night out. plus the release on his jumper is pretty slow.

that's why lb said we can't put marbury in an AI role. he's a different player and not as gifted a score. percentages may look the same but they're still different in how they score.


The tweener nightmare. Versatile enough to play either position but not gifted enough to truly own either. Always looking for a fit.

But look on the bright side, we gave up draft picks, a prospect, and he's virtually untradable. What's not to like?

you sure have been taking the islesfan approach to posting lately. why so bitter? its not all bad, if isiah can trade marbury for more manegable contracts, and another PG than the knicks may not get finacnially handcuffed.

[Edited by - slimpack on 12-08-2005 4:00 PM]
nixluva
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12/8/2005  4:17 PM
Steph is NOT a SG. He's a very good PG. He's more than capable of running this team. Teams have won titles with far less. He's not the reason we aren't winning. You can say he's one of the reasons, but not THE reason. There's plenty of blame to go around and a lot of it starts with the Coach. He's just not doing a great job of helping this team to develop any chemistry. He's not helping the team to keep an offensive flow for the whole game, cuz he puts horrible lineups on the floor. The players can't develop anything consistent, cuz they don't get any consistency from the coach's end.

I suppose that the Steph haters will want to place all the blame squarely on his shoulders :( Well he's allowed to have an off game and overall the start to this season has been the worst for almost every Knicks player, so i'd say that LB has something to do with the awful offensive performance of this team. I still feel that this team will have a big turnaround and over the next 2 months is when it should happen. we'll have a lot of home games coming up and finally an actual homestand for more than one game! I believe we can make up some ground during this stretch. We may not win them all, but we should win a higher % of the games.
BlueSeats
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12/8/2005  4:22 PM
Posted by SlimPack:
you sure have been taking the islesfan approach to posting lately. why so bitter? its not all bad, if isiah can trade marbury for more manegable contracts, and another PG than the knicks may not get finacnially handcuffed.

Well those are some big ifs, especially with the relationship between Steph and Isiah.

As to why I'm bitter, I guess because I see so many people who don't like Steph getting pot shots taken at them, like that they are "deranged" or should "root for another team".

But I can tone it down a notch, that's a fair request.
BigC
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12/8/2005  4:54 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

steph SHOULD NOT move to SG. why? b/c he's not good enough to be a fulltime SG. his jumpshot is nowhere near where it needs to be for him to play that position. he can score but it's not a balanced enough way to score to play SG night in and night out. plus the release on his jumper is pretty slow.

that's why lb said we can't put marbury in an AI role. he's a different player and not as gifted a score. percentages may look the same but they're still different in how they score.
The Knicks are going to have to make some decisions with Marbury. You mention AI, however when AI drives to the basket he knows how to pass the ball if there is a double team or if the middle is clogged. Marbury rarely gives up the ball when driving. Marbury and Nate are not a good combo starting since their game is similiar.

As far as Marbury being traded, I can't think of too many teams that would want him besides the Hawks. Especially when teams can wait around to get a player for less than half cost to play point.





[Edited by - BigC on 12-08-2005 8:54 PM]
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SlimPack
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12/8/2005  4:55 PM
Posted by nixluva:

Steph is NOT a SG. He's a very good PG. He's more than capable of running this team. Teams have won titles with far less. He's not the reason we aren't winning. You can say he's one of the reasons, but not THE reason. There's plenty of blame to go around and a lot of it starts with the Coach. He's just not doing a great job of helping this team to develop any chemistry. He's not helping the team to keep an offensive flow for the whole game, cuz he puts horrible lineups on the floor. The players can't develop anything consistent, cuz they don't get any consistency from the coach's end.

I suppose that the Steph haters will want to place all the blame squarely on his shoulders :( Well he's allowed to have an off game and overall the start to this season has been the worst for almost every Knicks player, so i'd say that LB has something to do with the awful offensive performance of this team. I still feel that this team will have a big turnaround and over the next 2 months is when it should happen. we'll have a lot of home games coming up and finally an actual homestand for more than one game! I believe we can make up some ground during this stretch. We may not win them all, but we should win a higher % of the games.

I agree with your final paragraph. but not necesarily the rest. you misunderstand, Im not blaming steph for last nights loss. IF its anyones fault its browns, but hes only partially responsible we just have to give credit to the clips for executing. In fact I have to give my props to steph, last night he played hands down the best defense he has ever played in his entire career, he may have only been credited with 2 steals, but he had alot of deflections and played an overall very effective 1st three quarters. but the thing is, the knicks are better when marbury passes the ball early and often, and only scores when we need him to, which is around 1 in every 4 or so possessions, thats why the knicks played well the 1st 3 quarters. however thats a very easy quality to find in a basketball player, a franchise certainly shouldnt pay 16.5 mill for it. marbury doesnt really know how to play the point. he doesnt know how to create for his teammates without dominating the ball and ruining ball movement, I dont say that to knock on him, in fact steve francise and gilbert arenas are the same way, but the thing is those PGs have the green light from their coach to score as much as they want, if marbury isnt going to get that then he's of minimal use to this team, dispite his progress on the defensive end. thats also why the knicks play just as well when he goes to the bench.



[Edited by - SlimPack on 12-08-2005 5:08 PM]
SlimPack
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12/8/2005  4:57 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by SlimPack:
you sure have been taking the islesfan approach to posting lately. why so bitter? its not all bad, if isiah can trade marbury for more manegable contracts, and another PG than the knicks may not get finacnially handcuffed.

Well those are some big ifs, especially with the relationship between Steph and Isiah.

As to why I'm bitter, I guess because I see so many people who don't like Steph getting pot shots taken at them, like that they are "deranged" or should "root for another team".

But I can tone it down a notch, that's a fair request.

thats actually a pretty reasonable thing to get pissed about. My approach to handling though (becuase we share similar views on marbury) is to always stress the fact that Im being logical when i talk about the harsh realities of steph's game, so that its harder for people to dismiss what I say and label me as a "hater"

[Edited by - slimpack on 12-08-2005 4:58 PM]
Bonn1997
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12/8/2005  5:21 PM
But look on the bright side, we gave up draft picks, a prospect, and he's virtually untradable. What's not to like?
I think Howard Eisley was the best prospect we gave up in that deal!
BlueSeats
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12/8/2005  5:34 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
But look on the bright side, we gave up draft picks, a prospect, and he's virtually untradable. What's not to like?
I think Howard Eisley was the best prospect we gave up in that deal!

I haven't seen enough of Lampe to really know what to think, but I have seen him take over a quarter or two of games with his shooting.

it's one of the bitter ironies of Steph's tenure here. One of my big complaints with him is he seems better at kicking OUT to shooters rather than feeding inward to the interior, the backdoor, or the rim.

In the early days people kept talking about how isiah needed to bring in more athletes to "run with Steph", while i was noting he rarely if ever pushed tempo. To this day we still have no reliable shooters for Steph, though at one golden moment in time we had Doleac, KVH, Houston, KT, and before steph, Lampe. So the irony of it all was that Steph is what really could have helped that proverbial "flatfooted jumpshooter" squad we used to have, yet he seems so wrong (to my eyes) for the squad presumably built for him.

truth be told, I think the best squad for Steph would be something along the lines of a ben Wallace or 27 yr old Dekembe at center to clean up for perimeter defensive lapses, then a bunch of shooters, like Redd, Peja, and Dirk.

PS, please forgive all my missed capitalizations, i have a mostly broken shift key.



[Edited by - BlueSeats on 12-08-2005 5:36 PM]
Bippity10
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12/8/2005  5:37 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by Bonn1997:
But look on the bright side, we gave up draft picks, a prospect, and he's virtually untradable. What's not to like?
I think Howard Eisley was the best prospect we gave up in that deal!

I haven't seen enough of Lampe to really know what to think, but I have seen him take over a quarter or two of games with his shooting.

it's one of the bitter ironies of Steph's tenure here. One of my big complaints with him is he seems better at kicking OUT to shooters rather than feeding inward to the interior, the backdoor, or the rim.

In the early days people kept talking about how isiah needed to bring in more athletes to "run with Steph", while i was noting he rarely if ever pushed tempo. To this day we still have no reliable shooters for Steph, though at one golden moment in time we had Doleac, KVH, Houston, KT, and before steph, Lampe. So the irony of it all was that Steph is what really could have helped that proverbial "flatfooted jumpshooter" squad we used to have, yet he seems so wrong (to my eyes) for the squad presumably built for him.

truth be told, I think the best squad for Steph would be something along the lines of a ben Wallace or 27 yr old Dekembe at center to clean up for perimeter defensive lapses, then a bunch of shooters, like Redd, Peja, and Dirk.

I agree with you that would also be the best squad for you and me as well.
I just hope that people will like me
Bonn1997
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12/8/2005  5:39 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by Bonn1997:
But look on the bright side, we gave up draft picks, a prospect, and he's virtually untradable. What's not to like?
I think Howard Eisley was the best prospect we gave up in that deal!

I haven't seen enough of Lampe to really know what to think, but I have seen him take over a quarter or two of games with his shooting.

it's one of the bitter ironies of Steph's tenure here. One of my big complaints with him is he seems better at kicking OUT to shooters rather than feeding inward to the interior, the backdoor, or the rim.

In the early days people kept talking about how isiah needed to bring in more athletes to "run with Steph", while i was noting he rarely if ever pushed tempo. To this day we still have no reliable shooters for Steph, though at one golden moment in time we had Doleac, KVH, Houston, KT, and before steph, Lampe. So the irony of it all was that Steph is what really could have helped that proverbial "flatfooted jumpshooter" squad we used to have, yet he seems so wrong (to my eyes) for the squad presumably built for him.

truth be told, I think the best squad for Steph would be something along the lines of a ben Wallace or 27 yr old Dekembe at center to clean up for perimeter defensive lapses, then a bunch of shooters, like Redd, Peja, and Dirk.

PS, please forgive all my missed capitalizations, i have a mostly broken shift key.

There's probably *a reason* why people haven't seen Lampe play!

I agree that we need more shooters to capitalize on Marbury's gifted ability to penetrate, draw defenders, and find shooters.
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i am changing my recommendation for steph as SG
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