Posted by Bippity10:

I actually never mentioned the game yesterday so keep me out of that argument. My point is that if Channing is going to play C/PF he needs to box out AND REBOUND. I think it's a fair criticism seeing as he says the same thing. Mabye he's just a hater as well.

Sorry, I didn't realize you meant the whole season.

Okay, how's this on the season: the Knicks are outrebounding their opponents by an average of 43.1rpg to 40.0rpg. Rebounding is not the problem. Turnovers are a major problem and AD is a black hole in that regard.

I swear, AD is the major part of what is wrong with this team. He sucks.

Aguirre said something interesting about Frye last week. He said they were developing his outside game before his inside game and that he would be a complete player eventually. I don't really know why there are "two phases" to the way they are going to work with him, but that's what the coach said.

I would change my sig to "AD sucks" but I'm trying to maintain some optimism here. If he keeps playing though, I may be forced to.

and that's exactly why I'm so optimistic about our team once Channing does start rebounding. We will kill people on the boards. To me the discussion is about whether Channing rebounds not whether the Knicks do. At this point he is an average rebounder that needs to improve. Seeing as he has admitted it 5 or 6 times this season(as have the coach's) not sure where I'm wrong but I guess we can disagree on this.

I believe the best compliment to Frye at the 4 is Davis Lee at the 3.
This guy is a very good rebounder and a very good passer who can handle the ball.

Next game against Seattle I'd like to see Lee defend Rashard Lewis.

Line up:

Pg: Marbury, Nate
Sg: Q, Crawford
Sf: Lee, Ariza
Pf: Frye, Butler, Rose
C: Curry, JJ, Davis

Inactive: Penny, Mo T

I've said over and over again how Frye is my new fav player along with Jamal, but Bip and Briggs are 100% correct when it comes to his rebounding. Yes, he's boxing out, but he has to also go up and get it. He totally has all the physicaly tools to be a very good rebounder. Heck, he grabbed 11 against Webber, Dalembert, Stephen Hunter and Andre Iguadala the other night and had 8 against the Bulls. He just needs to toughen up and act like he wants to bite someones head off when he grabs those boards, and I've seen him do it plenty. I LOVE when he rips down a rebound and has the look on his face like he's gonna go on a killing spree. And I loved that 4th quarter against the Bulls when he started manhandling all of them, going after those offensive boards with wreckless adandon. I'd rather see him start doing that and pick up some fouls then see him watching other guys grab boards, b/c he's smart enough to learn to get away from the fouls while playing aggresive at the same time.

As for his scoring: I kind of disagree with Briggs on one thing. I know you see him taking a ton of jumpshots (Rightfully so) but I think he has been mixing it up a lot. He cuts to the basket a heck of a lot and he's posting up a little. He's not doing it all the time, but he's still doing it. Should he do it more? Yes of course, that goes without saying. But I don't think he's anywhere near a 1 dimensional scorer. If that's not what you're implying, I apologize. But he is getting to the free throw line a heck of a lot lately, and that counts for something, and he's hitting them.

I think you're underrating his defense too, but of course it needs some work!

But note to Channing: REBOUND THE F**KING Orange Pumpkin!!! Squash the mother F**KER!!!!!!

What I like about him is that he has the build where he can put on some muscle and you know with his work ethic he probably will. He has acknowledged that he needs to get tougher and that's what I like about him.

Posted by crzymdups:

Posted by Bippity10:

and that's exactly why I'm so optimistic about our team once Channing does start rebounding. We will kill people on the boards. To me the discussion is about whether Channing rebounds not whether the Knicks do. At this point he is an average rebounder that needs to improve. Seeing as he has admitted it 5 or 6 times this season(as have the coach's) not sure where I'm wrong but I guess we can disagree on this.

Well, the thing I love about Frye is he has this arrogance/pride in him that most of the great superstars have. When people questioned him about Nate dunking on him in college (after a whistle was blown by the way, how many times have we seen Nate dunk after the whistle?), he got very pissed. Same with when people asked him about Zo swatting his own dunk attempt. He has a healthy pride in how he plays. I'm sure he WANTS to go out and get 15 rebs, but to intimate that that's the problem with team is off base. AD is the problem. I'm not sure if it would make a difference if Frye got 20 rebs a game with the way AD is playing.

AD is NOT the problem; Larry is the problem for playing AD. The only thing I can think of is that they're trying to push up the trade value of his expiring contract by showing that he can still be a servicable 5/5 player. Either that or Brown is clueless.



[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 12-05-2005 3:10 PM]

Posted by Bippity10:

I agree with you Brown is clueless....Bring in a new coach.

I think Brown is not concerned with wins and losses at this point. He doesn't care about being the 8th seed. He cares about improving and winning a title in the long run. Until guys show consistency he is going to stick with guys that show consistency of effort. As bad as AD is, you can't deny that he plays hard. The message is, if you want AD to go to the bench TAKE HIS JOB. This can be proven by the increase in minutes that Frye/Butler have gotten over the past few games. You will see this continue to evolve as the season goes on. Now it's someone else's turn to step up. Curry???? James??????Anyone???? This early season is more about lessons than winning. As we can see.

But I can deny that AD is playing hard. I watch times when he is glued to floor. For all the gripe everyone gives James. I give him this, he whacks people. AD watches as guys blow by him. James is foul prone and still out of shape but he will whack you to let you know he is on the opposition. AD takes minutes off. Maybe he is timing but that is where the Knicks get it handed to them.

[Edited by - pharzeone on 12-05-2005 3:28 PM]

If I am the Knicks I dont push Frye's buttons too much. Hey.. he's essentially giving us 20 points off the bench and shooting > 50%

Grow on that. Keep finding new and inventive ways to get him more shots. There's something he does exceptionally well. Better than veterans. So build on that and take it to new levels. Then when he's got a role work on rebounding and shotblocking, etc.

I think a big part of the problem this year so far is LB has us so focused on what we dont do well we arent doing enough of what we DO do well.

Fish I agree with you to a point. But when I look at a team like this we have absolutely no concept of how to play basketball. We are learning but at this point the idiocy on the court is spellbinding. I think he's just trying to tear it down and then build it up.

Bonn: If James and Curry step it up you will see less and less of AD. For the time being you will continue to see AD and spurts of Malik. You will be frustrated by their play but the young guys won't get significant minutes until they clearly earn it. At this point Ad has not earned it based on this year. But based on his career body of work he has earned it over the others in the front court. Hopefully time will move him out, but in the short run you will have to continue to deal with it.

David Lee: I like his effort on the court and I wish I could see him more. But unfortunately there are too many players ahead of him right now. I'm sure if he keeps playing hard you will see him slowly work his way into the rotation just like Sweetney did. Patience. We are rebuilding.