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This team should be playing with a chip on their shoulder
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s3231
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12/2/2005  3:48 PM
One of the problems this season has been a lack of passion early on in the games. When we are home, we can still find a way to come back from behind but that just won't happen on the road. This got me thinking, why isn't this team playing with more aggression instead of being so passive at the start of games?

Isiah has assembled a group of misfits and flawed players. I'm not saying that in a bad way because I kind of like it (I think we should use it as an advantage, see Detroit Pistons of the past 2 years). When we traded for Curry, I kept thinking about how good this team was going to be after Larry's teachings became 2nd nature to the players. However, a major reason I really believed (and still believe to a certain degree) this team would do well is because I thought the players would be playing with some fire in them. Last season, our team didn't work hard at all. We underachieved and our effort was pathetic until Herb took over and we at least started to put some effort out there.

This season, I keep waiting for this team to just play "angry" for a lack of a better word. I mean, this team has so many reasons to be motivated. Coming into this season I just kept thinking about how almost every player on this team has reason to be play with a chip on his shoulder. Steph has been called a loser on a constant basis by reporters, analysts, and hell, even some fans. Crawford was (and still is by some people) being called a chucker who only belonged on a street ball court, not a professional one. Curry was basically dumped by his team because of a lack of faith and he is still hated on by people who think he will not live up to his potential. Jerome James has been called a fat lazy bum....and he is still a fat lazy bum (ok, don't know where I'm going on this one). Frye (him and Nate seem to be the only players playing with a chip on their shoulder) was called "soft" and people couldn't fathom how he was picked in the top 10 calling him a bust. The list goes on and on.

You can see where I'm getting at here. Our whole team is almost, I repeat ALMOST, full of players that were either not wanted at one point, bashed because of how they play, or they were simply called losers. So I keep waiting for this team to play like they are on a mission. I've seen them do it at times this season, but they should have enough motivation from the past and present to keep it up throughout the game.

I want to see this team start off games aggressive on defense and I want to see hungry players that are out to prove everyone wrong. No one in the media or even in the league for that matter, believed (or still believes) that this team can be a good team this season. People are starting to change their tune right now, but no one believed in us at the start of the season.

Therefore, I've been waiting and will continue to wait for this team to play with some passion throughout the game. No one questions the talent on this team, we have a lot of it. But, it won't matter if we can't play with some heart for the full 48 minutes. Here's to hoping that team I've been waiting for, shows up soon (preferably tonight).



[Edited by - s3231 on 12-02-2005 3:49 PM]
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
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boomann
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12/2/2005  4:00 PM
tonight is the night
"We need another shot blocker and we need more girth in the middle, once that happens we have a chance to be a pretty decent team" Isiah on draft night
martin
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12/2/2005  4:13 PM
good post s3231. I think the one reason you see AD and rose play as much as they have it for the same reasons you are writing: Playing the right way. I think you'll see Brown's image for this team pick up: intensity the whole game, playing the right way, smarts, etc. It just takes time.

Also, the Knicks right now don't have that type of leadership on the court. Unfortunately Marbs just doesn't bring that to the table.
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bobs3304
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12/2/2005  4:20 PM
no offense, but EVERY team should play with a chip on their shoulder...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
s3231
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12/2/2005  4:24 PM
Posted by martin:

good post s3231. I think the one reason you see AD and rose play as much as they have it for the same reasons you are writing: Playing the right way. I think you'll see Brown's image for this team pick up: intensity the whole game, playing the right way, smarts, etc. It just takes time.

Also, the Knicks right now don't have that type of leadership on the court. Unfortunately Marbs just doesn't bring that to the table.

I definitely agree with you there. When I was thinking about this before the season, I also kept in mind that it would take awhile for this to come. So as I watched us storm back to beat the Bulls, I started to think about it again. While I know its still early, I think now I'm at that stage where I'm just waiting for it to all come together. When I say all come together, I don't mean that I'm waiting for the players to play exactly like Larry wants us to play overnight, but, I mean I'm waiting for that mindset, that swagger, where these players have a "screw everyone who doesn't believe in us" attitude.

I know that it might never happen. However, I really do think it will come and I'm anxious because once/if it comes, this will be one hell of a team.
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
s3231
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12/2/2005  4:32 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

no offense, but EVERY team should play with a chip on their shoulder...

I don't know if I would say every team. I do certainly agree that a lot of teams would be better with this attitude. However, you also have teams that don't need to play like this, but instead, they just play with a lot of confidence because they have either won in the past, or they just really believe in their team. I know this sounds like the same thing but to me, there is a distinction. For example, the Spurs don't need to play like they have a chip on their shoulder. Everybody loves them, praises them, etc. They just need to play confident because they know they are the best. With our team, our players have so many more sources of motivation than most other teams. Isiah has put together a bunch of players who have been criticized like there is no tomorrow. This "play with a chip on your shoulder" attitude is perfect for this team.

A lot of teams would definitely be better with this mindset, but, I don't think every team needs it or should use it to be successful.
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
martin
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12/2/2005  4:34 PM
Posted by s3231:
Posted by martin:

good post s3231. I think the one reason you see AD and rose play as much as they have it for the same reasons you are writing: Playing the right way. I think you'll see Brown's image for this team pick up: intensity the whole game, playing the right way, smarts, etc. It just takes time.

Also, the Knicks right now don't have that type of leadership on the court. Unfortunately Marbs just doesn't bring that to the table.

I definitely agree with you there. When I was thinking about this before the season, I also kept in mind that it would take awhile for this to come. So as I watched us storm back to beat the Bulls, I started to think about it again. While I know its still early, I think now I'm at that stage where I'm just waiting for it to all come together. When I say all come together, I don't mean that I'm waiting for the players to play exactly like Larry wants us to play overnight, but, I mean I'm waiting for that mindset, that swagger, where these players have a "screw everyone who doesn't believe in us" attitude.

I know that it might never happen. However, I really do think it will come and I'm anxious because once/if it comes, this will be one hell of a team.


oh, it's gonna happen. You'll see the team click somewhere after Xmas. The Knicks have had some bad luck with injuries and have had a long road trip and start another one soon, so those things may have slowed things. But this group of guys is TIGHT. I have heard it straight from people in the locker room, the camaraderie is there, all that needs to happen is for the Brown system to settle into the brain. Secondary to that Marbury has to come to a point where he is comfortable in the system and knows when HE has to step up and take over big time (which is surprising now that I think of it – I can’t seem to remember where he just took over a game, but maybe that’s part of the growing process).
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s3231
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12/2/2005  4:38 PM
I agree about Steph and I'm excited because I think he is making progress in that area (knowing when to take over). He did it in the home game against Portland and while he didn't take over against Chicago, he put the nail in the coffin with that runner. He really is becoming a better clutch player.
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
Knight
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12/2/2005  4:40 PM
Posted by s3231:

I agree about Steph and I'm excited because I think he is making progress in that area (knowing when to take over). He did it in the home game against Portland and while he didn't take over against Chicago, he put the nail in the coffin with that runner. He really is becoming a better clutch player.

I thought the nail in the coffin was when Marbury charged Duhon, then carried, didn't get called for either, Duhon gets a tech and the Knicks get the FT and the ball.
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
gunsnewing
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12/2/2005  4:48 PM
yeah its only been a month and look at the improvement we've seen from crawford, marbury and the defense already! We're going to be very tough to beat in the 2nd half of the season! Crawford still takes his 1 or 2 bad shots a night but unlike last year when all he took were 3's and fadeaway 20footers, he's been driving to the hope and shooting midrange jumpers every time he get the ball! Eventually he's going to be automatic! and look at all the great passes he's made so far! He always had the skills to be a special player. Larry was the perfect coach to get him to use them! Channing Frye being this good this early has been a HUGE plus! If Curry can play 30mins a game and we add a shooter we'll be unstoppable!
s3231
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12/2/2005  4:48 PM
Posted by Knight:
Posted by s3231:

I agree about Steph and I'm excited because I think he is making progress in that area (knowing when to take over). He did it in the home game against Portland and while he didn't take over against Chicago, he put the nail in the coffin with that runner. He really is becoming a better clutch player.

I thought the nail in the coffin was when Marbury charged Duhon, then carried, didn't get called for either, Duhon gets a tech and the Knicks get the FT and the ball.

You mean when Duhon fell to the floor and Marbury took advantage?

"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
crzymdups
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12/2/2005  5:36 PM
Posted by Knight:
Posted by s3231:

I agree about Steph and I'm excited because I think he is making progress in that area (knowing when to take over). He did it in the home game against Portland and while he didn't take over against Chicago, he put the nail in the coffin with that runner. He really is becoming a better clutch player.

I thought the nail in the coffin was when Marbury charged Duhon, then carried, didn't get called for either, Duhon gets a tech and the Knicks get the FT and the ball.

Actually, Duhon was called for a foul for tripping Marbury after he ran into Marbury and fell down. It was a non-call, because Duhon wasn't set and Marbury wasn't really driving. Duhon got the tech for arguing the call. The Knicks shot three free throws, one for the tech, two for the foul.

Knicks were getting the calls because they were the agressors and they were playing at home. But the team playing more agressively usually gets more of the calls. Bulls got more calls early on in the game, heck LB got a tech for harassing a ref.
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Knight
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12/2/2005  5:49 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by Knight:
Posted by s3231:

I agree about Steph and I'm excited because I think he is making progress in that area (knowing when to take over). He did it in the home game against Portland and while he didn't take over against Chicago, he put the nail in the coffin with that runner. He really is becoming a better clutch player.

I thought the nail in the coffin was when Marbury charged Duhon, then carried, didn't get called for either, Duhon gets a tech and the Knicks get the FT and the ball.

Actually, Duhon was called for a foul for tripping Marbury after he ran into Marbury and fell down. It was a non-call, because Duhon wasn't set and Marbury wasn't really driving. Duhon got the tech for arguing the call. The Knicks shot three free throws, one for the tech, two for the foul.

Knicks were getting the calls because they were the agressors and they were playing at home. But the team playing more agressively usually gets more of the calls. Bulls got more calls early on in the game, heck LB got a tech for harassing a ref.

Actually, I don't see what was wrong with what I wrote.
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
Killa4luv
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12/2/2005  5:56 PM
Posted by Knight:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by Knight:
Posted by s3231:

I agree about Steph and I'm excited because I think he is making progress in that area (knowing when to take over). He did it in the home game against Portland and while he didn't take over against Chicago, he put the nail in the coffin with that runner. He really is becoming a better clutch player.

I thought the nail in the coffin was when Marbury charged Duhon, then carried, didn't get called for either, Duhon gets a tech and the Knicks get the FT and the ball.

Actually, Duhon was called for a foul for tripping Marbury after he ran into Marbury and fell down. It was a non-call, because Duhon wasn't set and Marbury wasn't really driving. Duhon got the tech for arguing the call. The Knicks shot three free throws, one for the tech, two for the foul.

Knicks were getting the calls because they were the agressors and they were playing at home. But the team playing more agressively usually gets more of the calls. Bulls got more calls early on in the game, heck LB got a tech for harassing a ref.

Actually, I don't see what was wrong with what I wrote.
Uh, thats because you're a hater.

He didn't charge anyone, Duhon flopped.
nyk4ever
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12/2/2005  5:59 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:


Uh, thats because you're a hater.

He didn't charge anyone, Duhon flopped.

As well as putting an absolute negative spin on EVERYTHING Knicks.

But hey.. to each his own.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 12-02-2005 6:00 PM]
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Knight
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12/2/2005  6:00 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by Knight:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by Knight:
Posted by s3231:

I agree about Steph and I'm excited because I think he is making progress in that area (knowing when to take over). He did it in the home game against Portland and while he didn't take over against Chicago, he put the nail in the coffin with that runner. He really is becoming a better clutch player.

I thought the nail in the coffin was when Marbury charged Duhon, then carried, didn't get called for either, Duhon gets a tech and the Knicks get the FT and the ball.

Actually, Duhon was called for a foul for tripping Marbury after he ran into Marbury and fell down. It was a non-call, because Duhon wasn't set and Marbury wasn't really driving. Duhon got the tech for arguing the call. The Knicks shot three free throws, one for the tech, two for the foul.

Knicks were getting the calls because they were the agressors and they were playing at home. But the team playing more agressively usually gets more of the calls. Bulls got more calls early on in the game, heck LB got a tech for harassing a ref.

Actually, I don't see what was wrong with what I wrote.
Uh, thats because you're a hater.

He didn't charge anyone, Duhon flopped.

Name calling...if that's what being a non-hater on this site entails, I'd rather be a hater.
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
TemujinKnick
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12/2/2005  6:49 PM
Well, one of the nails in the coffin would have been Hinrich being slapped with a quick T for SCREAMING at the ref. Each game has many breaks for and against each team. Usually the Knicks are the ones getting the bad calls. This time it was much closer to even, or a + in our favor.
rvhoss
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12/2/2005  7:14 PM
yeah, when in the world will knight stop posting here? i wonder.

I think it started in the bulls game and will really get going once big game and curry return to add some bulk to the front line.

Rose and AD seem to always play with that chip...the miami game seemed to start it out a bit, but when frye's dunk got blocked, it was deflating all the way back here to my couch.

Tonight is going to be CRAZY...there is no way LB wants to get blown out tonight and I'm sure he's going to bring that intensity to the players. Big Game is playing I understand, and it should be interesting.

i agree big time s####, when does the fire start? I'm inclined to agree with martin that it will begin around christmas, but you'll see it start to come out tonight.

GO KNICKS!
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Knight
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12/2/2005  7:17 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

yeah, when in the world will knight stop posting here? i wonder.

Love those personal taunts...
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
martin
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12/2/2005  7:18 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

yeah, when in the world will knight stop posting here? i wonder.

dude, I am wondering when you are going to cut out crap like the above. Stop it already, it's getting annoying.
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This team should be playing with a chip on their shoulder

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