[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Except for Marbury Curry and Frye--Isiah should just unload on a secondary rebuild
Author Thread
Killa4luv
Posts: 27768
Alba Posts: 51
Joined: 6/23/2002
Member: #261
USA
11/29/2005  1:21 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by McK1:
Posted by Killa4luv:



Lewis isn't THAT much better than Craw,


are you high?

Don't take it out of context.
Essentially what I was saying was:
Is Rashard Lewis worth Crawford and essentially 2 first round picks?
I don't know about that. Crawford is playing poorly this season, but think about last season, they weren't miles apart. Lewis was still better, but this year it just seems like more than it is. I think they have similar ceilings as players to be honest but Lewis is obviously fulfilling his promise whereas Craw has taken a huge step backwards in his production.

yes they were. Get your head out of the highlight reels.

Lewis put up 21 and 6 on 46% frm 2 40% from 3 with a blk and a stl and Seattle won their division. Crawford was a senseless no defense playing non-rebounding long off-balance jump-shot taking chukker!

When you look at Lewis you see a player who is just super efficient. he is 26 and durable. He is long athletic knowledgeable and can beat you inside and out from the 3.
Craw avg 17, 4apg and 3rpg shooting 40% from 2 and 36% from 3 and is 26 and durable.

Defensively they are miles apart, but in other respects I don't see miles of difference. But whatever.
AUTOADVERT
BRIGGS
Posts: 53275
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 7/30/2002
Member: #303
11/29/2005  1:26 PM
Posted by fishmike:
why would the 9-5 Memphis Grizzlies who just went out and brought in vets to win--trade mike miller for ending contracts--thats not real, thats not happening
have you seen their moves last offseason? They have a bit of a jam at the 3, it gives them financial flexibility and they still come away with a guy like Ariza or Lee or Butler. They lose nothing in Wright/Davis.



Sorry fishmike, a 9-5 team isnt purging a starting C and a main cog for crp.
RIP Crushalot😞
fishmike
Posts: 53136
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
11/29/2005  1:38 PM
not now they arent.. Feb may be a different story. Any move now is in panic mode. We dont have a set rotation. We havent seen JJ, Curry or Q healthy. Making a trade now is bad business. How do you know these guys dont click, or some group clicks? You need to see 40 games, at LEAST. Sometimes you need to see 70 in the case of Memphis when Hubie first took over.

Briggs I know how much ball you watch, and you of all people know how much time these things can take. Lets see Frye WITH Curry. We havent seen that yet. Maybe that 3 guard line up with JJ really works well. Maybe Crawford learns to thrive with the midrange jumper. Maybe Q finds his stroke and starts having some monster rebounding games as well.

Knicks have a lot of problems but I'm not pulling the plug on players after a dozen games. Especially not w/ LB at the helm
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
McK1
Posts: 26527
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/16/2005
Member: #964
11/29/2005  1:43 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:



Defensively they are miles apart, but in other respects I don't see miles of difference. But whatever.

the differences don't show up on ESPN. However they do show up on an efficiency chart as well as in a defensive game plan.

Lewis causes a double team on the block plus you gotta identify him on the perimeter becaue he can nail shots out to 3. He can draw contact so keep him off the foul line.

With Craw the last 2 years it was just get in front of him, he'll take a bad shot. As a team we'll live and die with the miss/make potential of a guy shooting 39%. good free-throw shooter who doesn't drive.



the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
Killa4luv
Posts: 27768
Alba Posts: 51
Joined: 6/23/2002
Member: #261
USA
11/29/2005  1:53 PM
Posted by djsunyc:[br
to this i would respond that under lb, these young guys have been yo-yo'd all over the place. up till now, craw has been an erratic undisciplined player but from preseason through the road trip, he's grown leaps and bounds. how do we know that he can't develop into one with a little more seasoning? and then all of the sudden, his role is starter/bench/starter/bench. he's being moved all over the place and i'm not sure why. ariza hasn't really improved but he really hasn't been able to play that uptempo style which he excels at. although q has played awful, have we run more than one or two plays for him all year? and should nate be a backup 1, or backup combo that plays more off the ball and with it? we have talent on this team and right now, they are not fitting in with the style of play lb is trying to institute. so either we give them all time or we dump them. but to go with ricky davis, WHO MAY HAVE JUST A TOUGH A TIME TO ADJUST TO LB, makes no sense. mike james played under lb/carlisle so he's familiar with it.

that smart, tough players we need, well we just drafted 3 of them. can craw become one? i don't know but he has shown growth under lb as a player.


Crawford played well in preseason, which you seem to give alot of weight to, and I paid very little mind to except for the youngsters.

Crawford had a tough time adjusting his whole career. throw him under the bus.
McK1
Posts: 26527
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/16/2005
Member: #964
11/29/2005  2:02 PM
Isiah gave Crawford a 7 year contract. He has time to sit and learn.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
GoNyGoNyGo
Posts: 23559
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/29/2003
Member: #411
USA
11/29/2005  2:09 PM
Briggs - are you hanging out with our old friend Playa? I mean you are making posts just like he used to! Doom and Gloom! This is not the end product nor was it ever intended to be. I do think IT thought he had enough to make the playoffs though. The team is young, that is good. They have a great coach. They will be better in March than they are now. Their schedule has been TOUGH! They are only 3 games out now with 69 to play. Let's give this some time eh?


Ricky Davis is an all-shoot nothing else player. LB would never use him!
nyk4ever
Posts: 40994
Alba Posts: 12
Joined: 1/12/2005
Member: #848
USA
11/29/2005  2:16 PM
Geezus. Going from predicting that the Knicks are going to be serious title contenders to saying that the whole team(minus 3 guys) needs to be traded after 13 games is just jumping the gun a LITTLE bit. Can we let these guys play under Larry PLEASE? Obviously if a guy like Rashard Lewis becomes available I'd love for Isiah to go after him, he's a great young player.

Let's just bring a little reality to this thread for a second... THERE ARE 69 GAMES LEFT, 2 expiring contracts to trade AND Larry Brown has beyond a outstanding track record. Chill out.. PLEASE.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 11-29-2005 2:17 PM]
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
bobs3304
Posts: 24827
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 7/5/2005
Member: #948
11/29/2005  2:17 PM
We gonna play defense Larry?

Hey Larry...

Defense?
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
MS
Posts: 26922
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/28/2004
Member: #724
11/29/2005  2:18 PM
If atlanta wants to give us harrinton and j.smith for marbury and ariza i would do it in second, and trade harrington right when we get him....

Steph works well with the young kids but we aren't winning anything unless minny accepts a package of lee, buttler, ariza, ad and penny for steph and wally.....

Otherwise I would really like to see exactly how good nate can be, he has all the tools he just needs time to adjust, frye and curry have to stay everyone else can go.....

And call me crazy but i would much rather have spree than Q
boomann
Posts: 20685
Alba Posts: 26
Joined: 6/29/2005
Member: #938
USA
11/29/2005  2:20 PM
Steph works well with the young kids but we aren't winning anything unless minny accepts a package of lee, buttler, ariza, ad and penny for steph and wally.....

We already got Steph on our team. Do we need two Steph's and is there another Steph out there? Damn I'm confused

[Edited by - boomann on 11-29-2005 2:21 PM]
"We need another shot blocker and we need more girth in the middle, once that happens we have a chance to be a pretty decent team" Isiah on draft night
BlueSeats
Posts: 27272
Alba Posts: 41
Joined: 11/6/2005
Member: #1024

11/29/2005  2:23 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by BlueSeats:

We could trade anyone on this team not drafted by us, with the possible exception of Curry, and I'd shed not a tear from these jaded eyes.

To me, there comes a time you have to establish a core foundation and stick with it for the long haul. From my perspective that core is Frye Curry and marbury. You have to have that. We have to realize through watching the games that we are drastically inconsistent---that we cannot have q and craw as 30 mi players--we need more consistent guys--we need a SF a better G another big guy--so on.

I understand your point, we just have different emotions around Steph and the virtue of building a team from the ground up with homegrown talent.

As for Steph, I'm simply not turned on by his energy, demeanor, towel head, repetitive disses by former coaches and teammates, etc. I find him a bit too acidic for whatever we seem to be cooking. And that's all before I look at his 'tweener' style of floor play.

I'm simply relieved we now have some frontcourt potential to give hope, cause last year when we were backcourt dominated with little hope of obtaining franchise caliber talent upfront, I was willing to trade everyone but Ariza. So now it's up from 1 to 4 guys (and I add in Curry till he proves me wrong) who have the kind of heart, work ethic, team-first mentalities, and floor games that I find easy to root for.

The rest are just mercenaries and rentals.

So strides have been made, but there's still a long way to go.

And this is from someone who still expects this squad to end better than it's starting. I'm just not thrilled by high priced mediocrity, and I'd trade it for a shot at high draft picks and under the cap free agency in a heartbeat. I'd trade mediocrity for a chance at something special every time. Steph just isn't the kind of 'special' I'm looking for.
Allanfan20
Posts: 35947
Alba Posts: 50
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #542
USA
11/29/2005  2:30 PM
I can understand where Briggs is coming from, b/c this team is certainly flawed at the moment and isn't complete, but to say that getting Ricky Davis is a good option is just crazy. He's just as much a chucker as Jamal was and Q was back in Phoenix and Chicago and his bball IQ is just low, and he's older than those guys. I think if we're going for anybody, a guy like Mike Miller or Rashard Lewis (As other guys mentioned) are much better options. Guys who can do a little of everything and play smart. Mike James, as you mentioned, is an EXCELLENT option, but how much playing time is he going to get, and how come you're willing to give up Nate for him? You really think Nate wont be a better player than James, or at least in a similar league? And this is also considering the age differences.

But I also totally agree that we just have to bite the bullet for now and accept what we have, b/c this team ISN'T healthy and Q has shown us very little to nothing so far.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
NotFrye
Posts: 20353
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/29/2005
Member: #935
11/29/2005  3:39 PM
Posted by SlimPack:
Posted by NotFrye:

There's a lot of "never trade _______ guys" on this board, despite the fact that we are, at best, a mediocre team, with two erratic chuckers in craw and q. I don't think we should jump on briggs for making trade proposals or flipping out at our prospects, since we've seen enough in nyc over the past couple of years to know what a losing team looks like, and this team is showing a propensity for sucking balls. We really have to sit tight until our lottery pick is used up by the bulls, but if a trade comes along that improves the team, even if it involves your XXX hardcore fantasy boy stephon (or lee, ariza, nate, craw etc.), you jump on it.

i agree with you to a point, if said trade makes the team worse(through loss of our traded player) before it makes us better than whats the point of it? anyway I think this team has shown flashes of potential that the no knick team has shown in years despite it's current record, we should wait a little while longer before we can even ascertain what player should be traded for who.


I appreciate your position here Slim, and think your post really hit the nail on the head regarding the two camps- those who want to wait it out and see what develops (based on the potential this team has shown), and those who think things will head south and want to start dealing (I'd probably include myself in this second, "hater" category). I really do hope I'm wrong and that these guys get it together, but I can't seem to get over Craw's history of chucking (coupled with Q's low fg%) and our reliance on second-tier veterans for frontcourt minutes.
Nalod
Posts: 68696
Alba Posts: 154
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
11/29/2005  3:50 PM

I thought this is the third re-build.

I thought we wanted young talent.

A good draft? A world class coach?

Home grown talent. We got basically 5 rookies. One of the youngest rosters. Now we want established players?

Instant gradification! Give it more than 13 games.
BRIGGS
Posts: 53275
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 7/30/2002
Member: #303
11/29/2005  4:35 PM
Posted by Nalod:


I thought this is the third re-build.

I thought we wanted young talent.

A good draft? A world class coach?

Home grown talent. We got basically 5 rookies. One of the youngest rosters. Now we want established players?

Instant gradification! Give it more than 13 games.

Were not the Chicago Bulls. Our draft picks other than Frye are

21,30 and 2 and undrafted. Not exactly a rebuild through the draft.

We have two 38% lifetime shooters who both dont play defense, no SF, no solid third G, we need another,longer big man who can block shots, set picks, play tough D.

we have some things, but clearly, clearly we still need to reconstitute. it's not instant gratification, it's just reality--go watch that Heat game a few times over and dont figure Eddie Curry wouldve score 90 points--the heat is a team we have to deal with for ATLEAST 3 years and we are NO where near their area code.
RIP Crushalot😞
Nalod
Posts: 68696
Alba Posts: 154
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
11/29/2005  4:39 PM
BUt it starts with a plan.................
BRIGGS
Posts: 53275
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 7/30/2002
Member: #303
11/29/2005  4:46 PM
Posted by Nalod:

BUt it starts with a plan.................

Okay nalod, use your brain-power here. If it's a plan to bring in two 38% shooters who don't play D and a 7-1 400 pound C who cant play and own all 3 for 5 more years, i would say the plan needs some more work. rookies are nice, but they are three times as nice when you cant take them-- roll them up add a crawford or an ending contract and come out with a Rashard lewis and Ricky Davis
RIP Crushalot😞
bobs3304
Posts: 24827
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 7/5/2005
Member: #948
11/29/2005  4:49 PM
Marbury's going nowhere. You hear what LB had to say about him after the game...

Something to the effect of 'He played great, and he's only getting better"...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
rvhoss
Posts: 24943
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/2/2004
Member: #777
Switzerland
11/29/2005  5:05 PM
how mnay games out are we? I think 2.5 out of both the 8th seed and the atlantic (3rd seed). I think Nalod said it best in the first page of this nonsense thread.

BRIGGS...you are losing credit fast.

however, I will say, you did get a ton of different posters involved on a 3 page thread (and counting), which is what this site is all about.

So, while I think you are a little schizo, keep posting so we keep coming back.

looking forward to wednesday's "as the Briggs turns"

Keep on keepin on fellas.

reminder...we are only 2.5 games out of all things important this year and we still have 2 expiring contracts and MoT and Rose's trade values are going up up up!
all kool aid all the time.
Except for Marbury Curry and Frye--Isiah should just unload on a secondary rebuild

©2001-2012 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy