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Except for Marbury Curry and Frye--Isiah should just unload on a secondary rebuild
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fishmike
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11/29/2005  12:31 PM
Ricky Davis has done this before, He's played at this level before. He's had monster stretches for weeks at a time before. Its always a mental problem with him. Cle traded him for doodoo for a reason. If YOU have watched Bos you would see that Subbing Rickey Davis for Walker was no sub at all.

Lewis is nice player but he's secondary and he IS soft
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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SlimPack
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11/29/2005  12:32 PM
briggs you actually consider marbury apart of this team's core? oh I beg to differ...........

[Edited by - slimpack on 11-29-2005 12:32 PM]
tkf
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11/29/2005  12:32 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by tkf:

[quote]Posted by BRIGGS:

do what we have to do to bring in some higher caliber players like Ricky Davis Mike James who play at a higher consistency level and see if we can add some tough long back ups like Jake Voshkul Melvyn Ely etc..

we cant have q-rich and crawford on the same team getting big minutes because statistically speaking--that wont work.

Like I said, I would give up Ariza little nate and Crawford if I can bring back rashard Lewis. We need a high more consistent talent level.
maybe seattle realizes it doesnt want to lose lewis for nothing--nate craw and ariza is a nice package.

we need to work an angle where we are getting back more consistent vets, not neccessarily other teams spitouts. that means we may have to give up our nicer so-called assets.

yea, ricky davis, I mean the celts are a whole game better than us, and Mike James has the raptors playing great ball with one win in 12 tries... yea we can really use those two winners..

my god, someone please get briggs a doctor!!



lets get real here BOTH Ricky and James are better than any of OUR guards sans Marbury--thats realism. can we put a package together to entice seattle for lewis? it would be hard--can we get a jake voshkul and mel ely back--that is doable--the GM really like Crawford

but thats where im headed
we have a core---curry, frye and marbury--what we need to do know is to put together a team that has more effecient guys to go with them.

Briggs, I agree we need some help at the SF spot, but Ricky davis is a head case, he doesn't make the celts a winner and will not do the same for the knicks. Lewis will cost us a lot, more than I am willing to give up for him, and voskul and ely are not even worth discussing...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Bonn1997
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11/29/2005  12:32 PM
Posted by SlimPack:

briggs you actually consider marbury apart of this team's core? I beg to differ...........
I was surprised by that. I agree with Briggs here but I never would have guessed he thought that way about Marbury.

newyorknewyork
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11/29/2005  12:33 PM
Ricky Davis is everything we need and don't need at the same time.

Mike Miller would be perfect for us. I wouldn't mind snatching up Eddie Jones either. Memphis is winning though so I don't know if they would want to move them. But Jones, Miller, Cardinal for Crawford, Q, Taylor works. Davis, Crawford, Rose works to.
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SlimPack
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11/29/2005  12:34 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

I was surprised by that. I agree with Briggs here but I never would have guessed he thought that way about Marbury.


I actually really like the way the team plays when marbury is on the bench.

[Edited by - slimpack on 11-29-2005 12:34 PM]
SlimPack
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11/29/2005  12:36 PM
Posted by fishmike:

here you go:
Mike Miller/Lorenz Wright for Antonio and some combo Ariza/Lee/Butler

Mike is good player. High hoops IQ. He's gotten nicked up up nothing reoccuring. Can play 1/2 or 3. Can shoot.


I agree with this idea, although it would suck to lose ariza, and also I dont think memphis would go for it.

[Edited by - slimpack on 11-29-2005 12:38 PM]
tkf
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11/29/2005  12:38 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Nalod:

Briggy,

YOur losing cred here bro. Fast.


i could care less. I know that Crawford and Q-rich together isnt going to work--we arent good because we lack consistent guards other than marbs and good big men back ups and we have no SF

i understand other people really do not watch other teams play much, but NBA pro scouts who watch these team daily will have a different opinion on Ricky Davis--hes playing like an all star 3. the question is, does boston really want to rebuild their entire organization--at what point? that means cutting significant payroll.

does seattle want to lose lewis for nothing? or what they do a pre-emptive trade?

same thing with mike james--not an all star but under-rated tough and consistent.


Briggs, I paid 160 bucks for the league pass, I have had it for over 8 years now, I watch a lot of basketball, especially non-knicks games. I also watch the celts play a lot, and I am not along, a lot of us knicks fans are basketball fans as well, believe me, we have seen ricky davis and mike james play enough, to know that they are not making, the knicks better, heck how much better have they made their teams?
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
fishmike
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11/29/2005  12:38 PM
basicly I'm not trading:
Crawford, Marbury, Frye, Nate, Curry until I have seen them for a year under LB.

If I can get a good player via deadline firesale than great. Otherwise I'm in a holding pattern looking at similar deals.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
SlimPack
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11/29/2005  12:41 PM
Posted by fishmike:

basicly I'm not trading:
Crawford, Marbury, Frye, Nate, Curry until I have seen them for a year under LB.

If I can get a good player via deadline firesale than great. Otherwise I'm in a holding pattern looking at similar deals.

why not trade marbury? he might come along under brown, but his contract is so undesirable, and hes got personality issues, whats the point in paying `16.5 million dollars for a chauncey billups type player.
Killa4luv
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11/29/2005  12:42 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by SlimPack:

briggs you actually consider marbury apart of this team's core? I beg to differ...........
I was surprised by that. I agree with Briggs here but I never would have guessed he thought that way about Marbury.
Yeah I was surprised too. But how people watch this team and think anything else is even more surprising. Marbs is good at what he does, and more importantly, he does it consistantly. More consistantly than anyone else on our squad, by a mile. That is what makes him better than our other players even if you take talent out of the equation.

I like the idea, just not Ricky Davis. He is better and more consistant than our guards besides Steph. But I don't like him overall, and think he could do way more harm than good in the long run. He really seems like an a**hole with his antics.

I always thought Craw to Seattle was a good move. Rashard Lewis would be great. I'd do that deal but I would need a pick back, Lewis isn't THAT much better than Craw, although personally I don't have a problem seeing Nate and Ariza go for him, I don't wanna give them away either.
Andrew
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11/29/2005  12:43 PM
Man...can anyone remember the last time the Knicks had a healthy 2 guard that was actually a shooting guard? Its been too long.
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BRIGGS
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11/29/2005  12:43 PM
[quote]
Posted by SlimPack:

briggs you actually consider marbury apart of this team's core? oh I beg to differ...........


Yes and here is the arguement. While there has been times you almost want marbury gone for reasons like the KT thing last year or the LB remarks, through all the subterfuge, remember Marbury is the most effecient BEST player on the team by a WIDE margin. If we had to hear constant LB hates the guy, of course then you think maybe move him, but the REALISM is hes OUR best player--a guy we can count on


Now we have AGAIN surrounded Marbury with TRULY INCOSISTENT players. I like the Curry Frye core upfront--thats a staple, but everything else to me needs upgrading to guys who play TOUGHER more consistent two way basketball. Marbury is primatli 20-8 and frye and Curry should be pretty consistent effecient players--other than that who knows if jamal will go 5-9 or 5-19 same with q--who knows id ariza will play out of control will malik rose have his shot blocked 8 times davis is near shot Taylor is just a bit player.

Go give me ricky dvais and mike james game logs--do they go through wild inconsistencies> no they dont--theyre consistent players--we need back ups like jake voshkul's guys who will play tough d off the bench wiyth length set picks things that help teams win. we dont have a winning tyope of supporting cast-so we arent going to winanytime soon
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SlimPack
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11/29/2005  12:46 PM
I dont want marbury gone becuase he had a tiff with KT and brown,(although that is part of it) I want him gone becasue his contract is ridiculous. also the team is +5.2 when marbury is...... you know what forget about those statistics for now since I dont think theyre truely reliable this early in the season anyway, the team just plays well without hiim. (like in the fourth quarter of that denver game)
McK1
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11/29/2005  12:49 PM
after acquiring one guard whose fg% as a starter is 39%, shoots more 3's than 2's and free throws plus plays no defense, Isiah inexplicably trades for another the following off-season.

the rebuild should start a notch higher than the roster. I'm not saying Fire Thomas, but its clear the man needs a conscious at the decision table with him.

the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
boomann
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11/29/2005  12:50 PM
Why do people always panic after a loss? I hate to see the Knicks lose as much as the next guy, but I don't give up on my team as quick as some of you guys. I think if half of you were GM's we would have a diffrent lineup every night. I feel if the rookies get time to become consistent ball players than we will be better in the long run rather than picking up a flawed veteran. A lot of the guys being mentioned for trades have been in the league for years and have not won anything. So basically they are in the same boat as everybody on the Knicks. I would rather see our team grow then to keep a revolving door open after a blowout. It was unfortuate that they couldn't string back to back games together, but these guys are going to be a good team before this year is out. Patience young padawan.

[Edited by - boomann on 11-29-2005 12:56 PM]
"We need another shot blocker and we need more girth in the middle, once that happens we have a chance to be a pretty decent team" Isiah on draft night
joec32033
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11/29/2005  12:51 PM
I think a player that can help us big time that may be obtainable because of recent statements is Rashard Lewis. He's a 3 that can shoot the 3, and drive and he is young.

I would also be willing to give up Ariza, Q and Taylor for Lewis and Potapenko.....-can't happen until December 15, but I think this is a decent type of deal to pull off...

Curry
Frye
Lewis
Craw
Marbury
~You can't run from who you are.~
djsunyc
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11/29/2005  12:51 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

Now we have AGAIN surrounded Marbury with TRULY INCOSISTENT players. I like the Curry Frye core upfront--thats a staple, but everything else to me needs upgrading to guys who play TOUGHER more consistent two way basketball. Marbury is primatli 20-8 and frye and Curry should be pretty consistent effecient players--other than that who knows if jamal will go 5-9 or 5-19 same with q--who knows id ariza will play out of control will malik rose have his shot blocked 8 times davis is near shot Taylor is just a bit player.

to this i would respond that under lb, these young guys have been yo-yo'd all over the place. up till now, craw has been an erratic undisciplined player but from preseason through the road trip, he's grown leaps and bounds. how do we know that he can't develop into one with a little more seasoning? and then all of the sudden, his role is starter/bench/starter/bench. he's being moved all over the place and i'm not sure why. ariza hasn't really improved but he really hasn't been able to play that uptempo style which he excels at. although q has played awful, have we run more than one or two plays for him all year? and should nate be a backup 1, or backup combo that plays more off the ball and with it? we have talent on this team and right now, they are not fitting in with the style of play lb is trying to institute. so either we give them all time or we dump them. but to go with ricky davis, WHO MAY HAVE JUST A TOUGH A TIME TO ADJUST TO LB, makes no sense. mike james played under lb/carlisle so he's familiar with it.

that smart, tough players we need, well we just drafted 3 of them. can craw become one? i don't know but he has shown growth under lb as a player. early on, i wasn't a huge fan of the way marbury was playing in lb's system but he's been playing more consistent lately. right now, it's really up to lb to figure out what these guys can do and let them do it. our rotations are out of wack and that has just as much to do with our losses as our on court play.

McK1
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11/29/2005  12:52 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:



Lewis isn't THAT much better than Craw,


are you high?


the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
SlimPack
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11/29/2005  12:56 PM
Posted by boomann:

Why do people always panic after a loss? I hate to see the Knicks lose as much as the next guy, but I don't give up on my team as quick as some of you guys. I think if half of you were GM's we would have a diffrent lineup every night. I feel if the rookies get time to become consistent ball players than we will be better in the long run rather than picking up a flawed veteran. A lot of the guys being mentioned for trades have been in the league for years and have not won anything. So basically they are in the same boat as everybody on the Knicks. I would rather see our team grow then to keep a revolving door open after a blowout. It was unfortuate that they couldn't string back to back games together, but these guys are going to be a good team before this year is out. Patience youn padawan.

are you including me in this category? the only reason I approved of the mike miller trade is becuase fish's scenario didnt have us giving an unrecoverable amounnt of youth to get him and it will make us a better team. and the reason I want marbury traded, is becuase his contract is inexusable which is not something that happend after last nights loss, and also his ceiling as far as playing under brown goes is quite appharently lower than the worth of his contract.
Except for Marbury Curry and Frye--Isiah should just unload on a secondary rebuild

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