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Killa4luv
Posts: 27768
Alba Posts: 51
Joined: 6/23/2002
Member: #261
USA
11/30/2005  12:52 AM
Jackie Butler shoudl have won MVP last year based on his PER stats.
AUTOADVERT
tomverve
Posts: 21407
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Joined: 3/4/2005
Member: #878
11/30/2005  12:53 AM
No Killa, he shouldn't. His numbers were inflated due to small sample sizes.
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Killa4luv
Posts: 27768
Alba Posts: 51
Joined: 6/23/2002
Member: #261
USA
11/30/2005  1:02 AM
Posted by tomverve:

No Killa, he shouldn't. His numbers were inflated due to small sample sizes.
That was exactly my point, but this wasn't for you as you seem to have a sound grasp of statistics and their meanings and shortcomings. I'm a social scientist so I dig statistics myself, but some of these guys are ridiculous.

[Edited by - Killa4luv on 11-30-2005 01:04 AM]
McK1
Posts: 26527
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Joined: 7/16/2005
Member: #964
11/30/2005  1:03 AM
+/- isn't one of the stat categories that give a deeper meaning. its a selfish stat measure being used to elevate the status of a selfish player above the 11 men he takes the court with night in and night out.

you want to talk stats and deeper meaning. how about guard rebounding?

D Wade is a 6'4 205 guard averaging 7 rebounds a game to go along with scoring 25 per and handing out 7 assists. This is what Wade is doing against actual competition. He is giving his team more chances to win by hitting the boards and limiting 2nd chance opprtunities for his opponents as well as occassionally creating more opportunities for his team. A guard who rebounds like Wade also creates more fast-break opportunities. Wade often takes it out the air and pushes. He keeps thefloor balanced. Another feature of his rebounding is he sometimes creates opportunities to score more from the free-throw line by fouls he draws (like the 1 on Malik Rose) aggressively pursuing the ball in the air. Discuss.



[Edited by - McK1 on 11-30-2005 01:03 AM]

[Edited by - McK1 on 11-30-2005 01:05 AM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
djsunyc
Posts: 44927
Alba Posts: 42
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #536
11/30/2005  1:07 AM
Posted by Killa4luv:

DJ, I just want to let you know that I hold you fully responsible for all of this bull**** going on in this thread because you are the one who started this assinine thread in the first place. That statistic has got these professional Marbury/Isiah haters getting wood!

You have emboldened the terrorists DJ!!! WTF were you thinking??!?!?!?!?

why they gotta be terrorists? you tryna get racial?!?!?
BlueSeats
Posts: 27272
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Joined: 11/6/2005
Member: #1024

11/30/2005  2:06 AM
it would have been virtually impossible for our team to have been better last year with Steph off the court. Why?

1) His backups were Jamison Brewer and jermaine Jackson. Whatever anyone's feelings on Steph I think we can all agree he's more capable than either of those two.

2) for the most part our entire offense was built around Steph shooting or finding an 'open jumper' for a teammate. He was far and away the most significant player on our team and everything was devised with him and his 40 mpg in mind. When you take that structure away for little two minute chunks of rest here and there, of course there will be little opportunity for an alternative rhythm to be found or force to emerge.

Those factors taken together yield the obvious falloff the stats reveal. What the stats don't reveal is what might have been with alternative structures in place.
tomverve
Posts: 21407
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Member: #878
11/30/2005  2:28 PM
Thank you for that intelligent post, BlueSeats. You are correct to point out those flaws in the +/- stats.

It would be an interesting task to try to normalize +/- stats by taking players' backups into account somehow. Marbury is not the only player whose +/- benefits from weak backups, of course, and perhaps some players' +/- wind up looking worse than they should as well because of high quality backups.
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