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i don't care what anyone says...we still need to trade marbury
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djsunyc
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11/26/2005  9:52 PM
this one's for you killa
AUTOADVERT
jaydh
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11/26/2005  9:57 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

this one's for you killa

many others should be on there way out before marbury.
djsunyc
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11/26/2005  10:12 PM
i mean there was clearly an instance in the 2nd quarter when the vendor yelled out "COTTON CANDY" in an unprofessional manner and marbury looked at him funny. i mean, is that what a leader supposed to do? and when larry brown called "timeout", i think he meant that he wanted a "timeout" from stephon and that he can't play pg and wanted him off the team. i'm not sure if that translated well on tv...but i sensed it!!!
Rich
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11/26/2005  11:51 PM
Man, Selena Roberts will write anything to beat a deadline:

http://select.nytimes.com/2005/11/27/sports/basketball/27roberts.html

November 27, 2005
Sports of The Times
Brown's Power Could Mean Marbury Is Out
By SELENA ROBERTS

THE man in power at Madison Square Garden doesn't slump on his bottomless wallet in his courtside seat, but ambles along the sideline with the wobble of a stagecoach thanks to fickle hips.

The Garden puppeteer isn't James Dolan, the owner who mistakes his inheritance for genius, but Larry Brown, the coach who owns Charlie Brown's doomed disposition.

Such a switch was once unthinkable. But somehow, the vacuous emperor has been pushed to irrelevance by the tormented vagabond. Brown is the new powerbroker to please.

Somewhere, Lenny Wilkens is confused. It's true that Brown does not possess more N.B.A. titles than Wilkens, but his folklore legend as a salvage artist, as a bespectacled professor of fundamentals, as a local favorite, has helped to earn him a perch above all others at the Garden.

Who else but Brown would be celebrated for producing four victories in his first 12 games? Who else but Brown could get away with bemoaning a flawed team that he took on willingly for a generous salary? Who else at the Garden has a voice that carries with as much credibility at Brown's?

But what's really the magic potion to Brown's ascendancy? Brown is liberated to the point of autonomy by his legacy. Brown says what he wants, does what he wants, without thinking about repercussions.

It's actually refreshing to see a control shift at the Garden.

It is in the way Dolan, historically averse to mavericks like Jeff Van Gundy and Marv Albert, has allowed Brown to moan out loud about the very players the franchise is overpaying.

It is in the way Isiah Thomas isn't standing as a shadow coach in the Garden's breezeway anymore, but as a team president reluctantly aboard Brown's coattails.

It is in the way Stephon Marbury was trying to channel the revisionist's pet of Brown's eye - Allen Iverson - as he guided the Knicks against his coach's past life with the Philadelphia 76ers on the floor yesterday in a matinee game.

It didn't matter that Marbury, Jamal Crawford and Nate Robinson were forcing the kind of freelance Cirque du Soleil shots that Brown abhors near the end of the game. In the last second, they played to Brown's right-way mantra when Marbury made a savvy last-second pass to Robinson, the Thumbelina of rookies.

In one heave, Robinson arched a 3-pointer against the Garden's pie-sliced ceiling, and it plunged into the basket for an overtime victory at the buzzer. It was an instant reprieve for everyone under Brown's thumb.

"Stephon is making progress," Brown said.

At last, Crawford and Marbury had exited the abyss. At last, Thomas's players weren't being flogged by Brown.

For a game, Thomas could feel some validation for assembling a square-wheeled roster that Brown has continually cast as a band of misfits. Even before the game, Brown launched into one of his if-I-only-had-a-roster speeches while quantifying the team's shortcomings related to injuries and structure.

How can Thomas offer a verbal defense when Iverson, among others, calls Brown "the best coach in the world"?

This inability to combat Brown's aura of invincibility has left Thomas and Marbury in the same awkward position: seeking Brown's approval over that of Dolan.

This connection between Marbury and Thomas is visible. Thomas has been defined and second-guessed by the blockbuster trade he made to acquire Marbury. And Marbury has been defined and second-guessed for his unconditional loyalty to Thomas.

They are inseparable. When they greet each other, Marbury has been known to air-kiss Thomas. Call it a secret handshake of sorts for the Under-Brown Society.

For different reasons, they need Brown as much as they are repelled by his candid style and blunt assessments, because both are at critical points in their careers.

Thomas is on his fourth tour as a basketball suit after flaming out in Toronto, sinking the Continental Basketball Association and losing to Larry Bird's will in Indiana.

Marbury is on his fourth stop as basketball's chain letter, having been passed from Minnesota to New Jersey to Phoenix to New York as if he were bad karma to possess.

Thomas and Marbury must see Brown succeed to save their reputations. Out of self-preservation, they must let Brown do his thing, even if it means suffering the arrows.

The only difference is, Thomas knows this reality and Marbury is still oblivious to his status as the grumpy albatross to every team he is on.

That is why Thomas will survive the year, and why Marbury will be gone by season's end. Perhaps it is his nearly $7 million-a-year package to be president of basketball operations, but Thomas manages to hold his seething to himself, while Marbury cannot help himself.

But can't Marbury morph into a Brown-altered Iverson?

"Allen is a special player," Brown said wistfully, after he watched his ex-tormentor turned current love drop 40 points on the Knicks. He called Marbury "unique," an adjective short of special.

Marbury has little chance to rise in Brown's estimation. He can attempt to be what Brown desires, but his fits of regression will end up ushering him onto his fifth N.B.A. team.

He will not see such an ending coming, of course. Marbury and Thomas enjoy a special bond, but Isiah is the one who understands the new power structure.

The ruler of the Garden isn't Dolan, so wealthy via privilege. It's Brown, filthy rich in autonomy.

[Edited by - Rich on 11-26-2005 11:52 PM]
Bonn1997
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11/26/2005  11:53 PM
We'll see these articles until the trade deadline. And after the trade deadline we'll see articles about how desperately Isiah had tried to trade Steph but could not find any takers. Just get used to it.
newyorknewyork
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11/27/2005  12:14 AM
They could harp on Marbury trying to be Iverson. But then watch Marbury play like a more talented C.Billups. Which ain't bad at all.
https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
Killa4luv
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11/27/2005  1:06 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

i mean there was clearly an instance in the 2nd quarter when the vendor yelled out "COTTON CANDY" in an unprofessional manner and marbury looked at him funny. i mean, is that what a leader supposed to do? and when larry brown called "timeout", i think he meant that he wanted a "timeout" from stephon and that he can't play pg and wanted him off the team. i'm not sure if that translated well on tv...but i sensed it!!!

I'm waiting for one of the Marb haters to miss the sarcasm in all of this and chime in.
WOODMANnYk
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11/27/2005  2:07 PM
MArbury will still get traded.. It would make alot of sense.. The dude will be 29yrs old in feb, 2006.. As long as he still got value, you trade him now before it's too late..


Time to consider FRYE the new franchise player for the Knicks..
The Future. GO KNICKS!
rvhoss
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11/27/2005  4:03 PM
Marbs is over the hill...it's time for him to go
all kool aid all the time.
Killa4luv
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11/27/2005  7:55 PM
Posted by WOODMANnYk:

MArbury will still get traded.. It would make alot of sense.. The dude will be 29yrs old in feb, 2006.. As long as he still got value, you trade him now before it's too late..


Time to consider FRYE the new franchise player for the Knicks..

Right on cue with the nonsense.
franco12
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11/28/2005  9:10 AM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by WOODMANnYk:

MArbury will still get traded.. It would make alot of sense.. The dude will be 29yrs old in feb, 2006.. As long as he still got value, you trade him now before it's too late..


Time to consider FRYE the new franchise player for the Knicks..

Right on cue with the nonsense.

I don't think this is nonsense.

Frye, Curry, Crawford, Ariza, Lee & Nate are probably 5 years from maxing their game and reachin their peak- I don't think its absurd to think that they are the core of a potential championship team.

Five years is a long time to expect Marbury to wait and still be a performer.

I'm sure that if Isiah found the right deal, he'd do it.

oohah
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11/28/2005  9:37 AM
I don't think this is nonsense.

Frye, Curry, Crawford, Ariza, Lee & Nate are probably 5 years from maxing their game and reachin their peak- I don't think its absurd to think that they are the core of a potential championship team.

Five years is a long time to expect Marbury to wait and still be a performer.

I'm sure that if Isiah found the right deal, he'd do it.

So you think Isiah has a 5-year plan to win?

I doubt it.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
fishmike
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11/28/2005  9:56 AM
thing is Marbury has already changed his game. He was a real leaper when he first came into the league. When was the last time you saw him dunk? Can he anymore? I dont even know. He still beats guys off the dribble almost at will, and his finishing game is about strength and contact, not about athleticism or hops. I see at least 3-4 years of Marbury playing at this level before those ankles start to quit on him.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
jaydh
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11/28/2005  10:04 AM
Posted by fishmike:

thing is Marbury has already changed his game. He was a real leaper when he first came into the league. When was the last time you saw him dunk? Can he anymore? I dont even know. He still beats guys off the dribble almost at will, and his finishing game is about strength and contact, not about athleticism or hops. I see at least 3-4 years of Marbury playing at this level before those ankles start to quit on him.


thats fair to say marbs has 3 or 4 good yrs left. if the team stays on track, no major injuries, no major team-changing trades, no players forced to retire due to health reasons, brown stays, then i think its also fair to say this could be a great team in 2-3 yrs.
franco12
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11/28/2005  10:14 AM
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by fishmike:

thing is Marbury has already changed his game. He was a real leaper when he first came into the league. When was the last time you saw him dunk? Can he anymore? I dont even know. He still beats guys off the dribble almost at will, and his finishing game is about strength and contact, not about athleticism or hops. I see at least 3-4 years of Marbury playing at this level before those ankles start to quit on him.


thats fair to say marbs has 3 or 4 good yrs left. if the team stays on track, no major injuries, no major team-changing trades, no players forced to retire due to health reasons, brown stays, then i think its also fair to say this could be a great team in 2-3 yrs.

we might be a good team in 2-4 years- I still think we are a player or two away from being a great team.

too bad we don't have our draft picks anymore!
jaydh
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11/28/2005  10:24 AM
Posted by franco12:
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by fishmike:

thing is Marbury has already changed his game. He was a real leaper when he first came into the league. When was the last time you saw him dunk? Can he anymore? I dont even know. He still beats guys off the dribble almost at will, and his finishing game is about strength and contact, not about athleticism or hops. I see at least 3-4 years of Marbury playing at this level before those ankles start to quit on him.


thats fair to say marbs has 3 or 4 good yrs left. if the team stays on track, no major injuries, no major team-changing trades, no players forced to retire due to health reasons, brown stays, then i think its also fair to say this could be a great team in 2-3 yrs.

we might be a good team in 2-4 years- I still think we are a player or two away from being a great team.

too bad we don't have our draft picks anymore!

i do think we will be able to acquire a 1st round pick along the line, when we deal penny&davis. But I'm not really worried about that. I think we have players who could one day be starters to fill our current needs(like Frye will start at PF one day, JC or Nate could fill what we need out of a SG one day, and the same for ariza at SF). To me, its all about developing our young guys and not adding in players who will disrupt their development.
BlueSeats
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11/28/2005  11:34 AM
While I've been somewhat critical of Marbury's floor game I don't think it is the main reason for his inability to stay with teams; I think it's been his personality. If he can put that in check he's got a good chance of staying with this team a long time. However, if the team finds him a divisive/disruptive/distractive influence that's souring the culture and teaching the youth bad habits he'll be shipped sooner rather than later.

It's about his head, not his ankles.
Pharzeone
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11/28/2005  11:50 AM
What control shift. Most of Brown wants have been shot down by Isiah. Ollie and Lynch were the most noteable ones for me. Brown doesn't have the input here like many think. Dolan operates on a different wavelength. He let his people (GMs and presidents make all the moves). Steve Mills runs the show. The Knicks still look at the bottom line. Ticket sales. That's why you can fire a Don Nelson in his first season. If Marbury still packs in the Garden, he ain't going nowhere. Brown is getting paid big bucks and knew the situation before he walked in here. Checketts said the same thing about Nelson concerning Ewing.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
i don't care what anyone says...we still need to trade marbury

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