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Something About Marbury that We've All "Known", but Which I Just Realized...
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bobs3304
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11/20/2005  5:42 PM
He's never played with someone on par with him.

He's never really had a "pier".

Think about it...K-Mart was a rookie, JJ was still young, same with Amare.

Marion you could make a case for, so I'll leave that for you to decide.

But I think part of the reason he "dominates" the offense so much is b/c he feels or "knows" there are no other go-to-guys out there. For most of his career he's been surrounded by young talent or role players.

I think he would benefit from having someone to carry some of the load alongside him.


This doesn't take away from his deficiencies though. I'm not excusing Stephon for his inability to make his teammates better or play defense or have his selfish tendencies.

But I am trying to show I'm open-minded about him, and that there's more to a player than just the same old characterization...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
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TheloniusMonk
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11/20/2005  5:44 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

He's never played with someone on par with him.

K.G.


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crzymdups
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11/20/2005  5:46 PM
I agree, since KG, Marbury has never had a chance to be the second banana of a team like he ought to be. I think Curry and Frye can develop to the point where Marbs doesn't defer to him, but they're carrying the team just as much as he is. This is the most help he's had anywhere since Minnie.
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bobs3304
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11/20/2005  5:49 PM
Posted by TheloniusMonk:
Posted by bobs3304:

He's never played with someone on par with him.

K.G.

I meant since then.

He didn't really have time to develop alongside Garnett...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
tomverve
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11/20/2005  5:51 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

He's never really had a "pier".

True. And a man can't own a yacht without a pier. Just ask Spree.

Seriously though, yes, you are correct. That may account for the way Marbury plays. It also is a big reason why he's never been on a very successful team, IMO. The knock that Marbury has never been a winner conveniently forgets to take into account that

1) Players don't win games, teams do (12 man roster + coach); and
2) Marbury has never been on a very good team (KG and Amare as rookies or not much more, straight out of HS no less; only legit All-Star he's played with has been Marion)
3) Therefore, it's not necessarily a knock on Marbury that he has never been on a big winner.

Just imagine if Jordan had never played with another All-Star and never had a great coach. He would have willed his teams to the playoffs more often than not, most likely, but probably would never have won any championships. How would we remember him then? As a selfish gunner or stat-padder who couldn't win? Likewise, Wilt went through his career never having a solid coaching situation and never having a supporting cast like Russell; that's a major reason why Russell tended to get the best of him. That's no knock on Wilt, and it doesn't mean Russell was better. It just does not make sense to judge individual players by team accomplishments. That way of looking at things is probably the biggest fallacy circulating around professional sports discussions, with no sign of getting better, unfortunately.
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Bonn1997
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11/20/2005  5:54 PM
Posted by TheloniusMonk:
Posted by bobs3304:

He's never played with someone on par with him.

K.G.
KG was like twelve years old then (exaggeration)
bobs3304
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11/20/2005  5:55 PM
I mean, I always knew it, but I think it just hit me.


Maybe it's guilt by association.

Marbury is the way he is b/c he's never had another guy to crawl in the fox hole with him...

I think part of it also stems from him not trusting those around him as much. If we had someone on par with his ability at another position I'm actually pretty sure it would be a lethal combination...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
PhilinLA
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11/20/2005  5:56 PM
That's what makes his lifetime assist numbers all the more impressive. They're would have been tons more if he'd played with better shooters and finishers.
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teslawlo
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11/20/2005  5:56 PM
and another thing: when marbs played his one year with the suns, they did do pretty well. They took the spurs to the limit and played quite competitively. If it were some other team they might've gone on to the second round...
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nyk4ever
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11/20/2005  5:56 PM
I backup Marbury to a certain degree and this is something that I've been saying for awhile now. I root for the Knicks first and if a trade comes along that makes the Knicks better and requires Marbury to go then great ByeBye but all the time since Steph has been here I have said that I just want to see Steph play with another great player. Think about Jason Kidd, he wouldnt post anywhere near the same numbers if he didnt have Kmart, Jefferson, and Carter to play with him or Nash if he didnt have Amare. Look at any good team, they all have 2 great players. Steph has always just played with himself and a bunch of pretty good players.

I just hope Frye or Curry develops into a bigtime player becuase I don't think Steph is going anywhere soon.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 11-20-2005 5:57 PM]
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crzymdups
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11/20/2005  5:56 PM
up until this season, I think his best teammate as a Knick has been Keith Van Horn. That should tell you everything you need to know about why the Knicks have struggled with Marbs.
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djsunyc
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11/20/2005  5:58 PM
the question you have to ask now is that will one of these guys become that 2nd player before marbury is out of his prime or on the downside of his career?
Knight
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11/20/2005  5:59 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

up until this season, I think his best teammate as a Knick has been Keith Van Horn. That should tell you everything you need to know about why the Knicks have struggled with Marbs.

Good, now that that's cleared up, there should be no problem trading him to a team that has another star to compliment him. I'm sure NBA GM's see it the same way.
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
crzymdups
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11/20/2005  6:00 PM
Posted by Knight:
Posted by crzymdups:

up until this season, I think his best teammate as a Knick has been Keith Van Horn. That should tell you everything you need to know about why the Knicks have struggled with Marbs.

Good, now that that's cleared up, there should be no problem trading him to a team that has another star to compliment him. I'm sure NBA GM's see it the same way.

or....how about trying to get him a second star here? by like developing Frye and Curry?
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Knight
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11/20/2005  6:02 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by Knight:
Posted by crzymdups:

up until this season, I think his best teammate as a Knick has been Keith Van Horn. That should tell you everything you need to know about why the Knicks have struggled with Marbs.

Good, now that that's cleared up, there should be no problem trading him to a team that has another star to compliment him. I'm sure NBA GM's see it the same way.

or....how about trying to get him a second star here? by like developing Frye and Curry?

I think the three could succeed together but the question is: is Marbury the right person for this team and the right person to develop along with our young guys?
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
bobs3304
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11/20/2005  6:04 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

Good, now that that's cleared up, there should be no problem trading him to a team that has another star to compliment him. I'm sure NBA GM's see it the same way.

or....how about trying to get him a second star here? by like developing Frye and Curry?


Agree with Knight's point, b/c it'll be difficult to trade for another star.

But Frye and Curry, while they might become solid players, even All-Star caliber, they don't seem like the type Marbury TRUSTS.....and that's what's most important. He's never viewed any 1 teammate as being on his level with the exception of KG.



[Edited by - bobs3304 on 11-20-2005 6:05 PM]
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
crzymdups
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11/20/2005  6:06 PM
Posted by Knight:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by Knight:
Posted by crzymdups:

up until this season, I think his best teammate as a Knick has been Keith Van Horn. That should tell you everything you need to know about why the Knicks have struggled with Marbs.

Good, now that that's cleared up, there should be no problem trading him to a team that has another star to compliment him. I'm sure NBA GM's see it the same way.

or....how about trying to get him a second star here? by like developing Frye and Curry?

I think the three could succeed together but the question is: is Marbury the right person for this team and the right person to develop along with our young guys?

I think the answer is yes. With this team capped out for at least three years, it doesn't make any sense to give away our most talented player before giving it a try for longer than 10 games. If after 40 games it's still ugly with Marbury's role changing every night, then you take a long look at moving him. Before that, it's foolish to give away the most talented player and best scorer because we've had a rough start to the season. Chicago was 1-9 last season. Many teams turn it around in the NBA after a slow start. The first two months is about learning how to play, by January, I think this team will know how to play together really well. But it may take longer. At some point, you have to stop making trigger happy trades and let your roster learn to play together.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 11-20-2005 6:07 PM]
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bobs3304
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11/20/2005  6:07 PM
^ agreed. if marbury could help phoenix get to the playoffs with the pieces they had, we can too.

but the point is that we won't be getting the best of stephon until we have someone that HE can lean against for help. Someone he views as on HIS level...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
nyk4ever
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11/20/2005  6:13 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

^ agreed. if marbury could help phoenix get to the playoffs with the pieces they had, we can too.

but the point is that we won't be getting the best of stephon until we have someone that HE can lean against for help. Someone he views as on HIS level...


Any chance that can turn out to be Larry Brown? I dont think Stephon needs a player, I think he needs the change to occur mentally. Obviously the player would make things easier but that's going to be tough to come by right now with the Knicks situation. If it's not Curry and Frye then I think Larry Brown could be the other "superstar"

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 11-20-2005 6:14 PM]
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
bobs3304
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11/20/2005  6:15 PM
I think Steph IS selfish. He holds himself in very high regard.

That's why you need to bring in someone he respects and views as on his level.

DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
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