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the flaw in the KT deal
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BRIGGS
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11/13/2005  7:56 PM
i would've gladly moved KT for pick 21 and an ending contract. I think that waw fair value at a minimum for KT. But we took on Q-rich, a guy who has been just an awful % player, lacks a dribble drive, kind of a 2-3 tweener, who doesnt play tough D. Its like we got rid of one person who didnt fit for another one. It's a trade that sounds better than it was, not unlike almost every move Isiah has made unfortunately.
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djsunyc
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11/13/2005  8:04 PM
in hindsight, maybe we could've moved kt + #30 to the pacers for that #17 pick and take granger there.

but in all honesty, the Q and pick deal was broached to isiah from the suns and isiah made the deal b/c it was the first deal for kurt he was offered, so he pulled the trigger. i guess he needed to move him asap b/c of the problems between kurt and steph.
djsunyc
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11/13/2005  8:18 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

i would've gladly moved KT for pick 21 and an ending contract. I think that waw fair value at a minimum for KT. But we took on Q-rich, a guy who has been just an awful % player, lacks a dribble drive, kind of a 2-3 tweener, who doesnt play tough D. Its like we got rid of one person who didnt fit for another one. It's a trade that sounds better than it was, not unlike almost every move Isiah has made unfortunately.

again, in hindsight, let's say we made a kurt for spoon + #1 deal (i think they had #24 this year). we still could've drafted nate there or at the very least, jarret jack. now we also have spoon to move out in a deal...a much cheaper contract so it could be a minor tweak without taking on big salary in return.
Solace
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11/13/2005  8:20 PM
I still really am not sure how anyone is upset about trading KT for Q AND Nate? I don't see how that's not fair value and then some? KT was what 32 and a power forward with no power in his game? Most overrated defender in the NBA, never went inside. All he did was shoot jumpers. We got a young athletic SF/SG and a young backup PG in Nate. I don't see how anyone could question this trade. Would you rather have KT back? I don't think there was a better deal out there.
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djsunyc
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11/13/2005  8:22 PM
Posted by Solace:

I still really am not sure how anyone is upset about trading KT for Q AND Nate? I don't see how that's not fair value and then some? KT was what 32 and a power forward with no power in his game? Most overrated defender in the NBA, never went inside. All he did was shoot jumpers. We got a young athletic SF/SG and a young backup PG in Nate. I don't see how anyone could question this trade. Would you rather have KT back? I don't think there was a better deal out there.

i am not upset with the deal...but it does look like Q needs to shoot alot of times to make an impact. and in all honesty, i really don't see a place for Q here on the offensive side of the ball as lb doesn't like 3 pointers and we can't play q at the sg since we have no other ball handlers outside of steph and craw.
Solace
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11/13/2005  8:25 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Solace:

I still really am not sure how anyone is upset about trading KT for Q AND Nate? I don't see how that's not fair value and then some? KT was what 32 and a power forward with no power in his game? Most overrated defender in the NBA, never went inside. All he did was shoot jumpers. We got a young athletic SF/SG and a young backup PG in Nate. I don't see how anyone could question this trade. Would you rather have KT back? I don't think there was a better deal out there.

i am not upset with the deal...but it does look like Q needs to shoot alot of times to make an impact. and in all honesty, i really don't see a place for Q here on the offensive side of the ball as lb doesn't like 3 pointers and we can't play q at the sg since we have no other ball handlers outside of steph and craw.

I guess the real issue is that we have three guys that need A LOT of touches in Q, Craw and Marbury. If they're all doing shooting, then we're not passing the ball inside enough. I guess that would be fair. So, obviously, the question really becomes, if you just don't think that the tandem works well together, which two would you keep? You'd like to get a ball handler in return for one of those. I'd probably keep either Q and Marbury or Q and Craw at this point.



[Edited by - Solace on 11-13-2005 8:25 PM]
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
attaboy2005
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11/13/2005  8:38 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by BRIGGS:

i would've gladly moved KT for pick 21 and an ending contract. I think that waw fair value at a minimum for KT. But we took on Q-rich, a guy who has been just an awful % player, lacks a dribble drive, kind of a 2-3 tweener, who doesnt play tough D. Its like we got rid of one person who didnt fit for another one. It's a trade that sounds better than it was, not unlike almost every move Isiah has made unfortunately.

again, in hindsight, let's say we made a kurt for spoon + #1 deal (i think they had #24 this year). we still could've drafted nate there or at the very least, jarret jack. now we also have spoon to move out in a deal...a much cheaper contract so it could be a minor tweak without taking on big salary in return.


What you don't seem to understand, when we did the trade with Phoenix to send KT for and the 21st Pick, the Knicks told Phoenix to draft Nate Robinson for them and we drafted Dijon Thompson for them, that is how it works when two teams trade picks on draft day. If it wasn't that way would you trade your draft pick and have some one else pick the guy for you?. I don't think so!.
bobs3304
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11/13/2005  8:47 PM
i'll give Q a month or so longer to prove he's worth anything.

DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
Bonn1997
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11/13/2005  9:57 PM
Q is a 15/6 player from a 62 win team who's in a new system and probably still injured. Give it some time. Jeez.
crzymdups
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11/13/2005  10:12 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

Q is a 15/6 player from a 62 win team who's in a new system and probably still injured. Give it some time. Jeez.


yeah, I agree.
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Killa4luv
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11/13/2005  10:23 PM
what Bobs and Bonn said.
Panos
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11/13/2005  11:30 PM
Q proved tonight that he can produce decent numbers without too many shots. 3 for 3 from 3pt range for 11 pts in 24 mins.
3 rebs, 3 assists, a steal and a blocked shot.
If he can play like that, deal was a no brainer.
Bonn1997
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11/13/2005  11:33 PM
Kurt's averaging 9/5 as a starter on the Suns. He's half-way at the 18/10 Oohah prediction. He just needs 96 minute games!
rvhoss
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11/13/2005  11:45 PM
how did q look tonight briggs?
all kool aid all the time.
tomverve
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11/13/2005  11:46 PM
Q looked like Lampe the Savior. Channing looked like crap though, the kid is soft.
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Bonn1997
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11/13/2005  11:47 PM
Posted by tomverve:

Q looked like Lampe the Savior. Channing looked like crap though, the kid is soft.
Channing is a bust
rvhoss
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11/13/2005  11:50 PM
tomverve, you are so funny, OR BLIND!
all kool aid all the time.
gunsnewing
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11/14/2005  12:05 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:

Q is a 15/6 player from a 62 win team who's in a new system and probably still injured. Give it some time. Jeez.


yeah people forget that there's always an adjustment period whenever a player comes to NY. I bet the same people would've been complaining about LJ & Houston too. Q isn't as bad as he has looked. he'll find his role

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 11-14-2005 12:15 AM]
nyk4ever
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11/14/2005  12:11 AM
Posted by gunsnewing:

yeah people forget that there's any adjustment period whenever a player comes to NY. I bet the same people would've been complaining about LJ & Houston too. Q isn't as bad as he has looked. he'll find his role

I agree, Q is going to be just fine. While I don't think he's going to be as good as he was last year, he's certainly going to be a good player for this team and right now he's still sifting his way through the offense and getting his legs under him from injuries.


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Erniecat
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11/14/2005  12:23 AM
Let's not forget one major point about the KT trade: We needed to get rid of KT to make room for the younger guys, especially Frye. If KT is still here, he's getting his 30-38 mins. a night, and who knows if Frye gets off the bench. Getting Q and Nate back is plenty for a guy we obviously wanted to deal, especially since Kurt is no youngster.

And even though Q has not looked too good so far, let's cut the guy some slack. He had an injury that cost him most of the preseason. Combine that with adjusting to a new city, a new coach and new teammates, and I think it's safe to say his play will improve.
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