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Brown takes Shot at Steph (article)
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Knight
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11/13/2005  10:32 AM
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/story/365068p-310915c.html

Excerpt: Although Marbury outscored Baron Davis 22-12 in Friday's loss to the Warriors, Brown felt that Davis made several key plays - point guard plays - in the final three minutes to rally Golden State to an 86-84 win. According to Brown, it was the other team's point guard who "won the game."

When asked about Marbury's performance, Brown suggested yesterday that statistics can be misleading, calling the kind of points Marbury scored late in the game "fool's gold."

Marbury finished with 22 points and five assists but didn't score or record an assist in the last five minutes. Davis missed nine of 12 shots overall but he did hand out 12 assists, including three in the final 2:58.

"I don't look at stats all the time," Brown said the day after his team blew a 13-point lead. "He's getting better and better. I think he's trying and that's the thing that I see. Late in the game he has to be a lot more aggressive, like Jamal (Crawford) was. I think Steph, in situations like that, has to get others the shot the way Baron did. Baron just took over the game at the end. Look at his stats - they didn't stand out. He won the game. Him and (Adonal) Foyle."
_________________

Despite how everyone is raving about Marbs, I think Larry's assessment is dead on: "fool's gold".
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
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djsunyc
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11/13/2005  10:59 AM
well look, steph is playing better defensively. it's pretty apparent that his role at this stage of his career is that of shooting guard. and lb has every right to say what he wants b/c steph is supposed to be THE franchise player here. he gets paid $20 mil to be the man so there are different rules applied to him than anyone else.
McK1
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11/13/2005  11:12 AM
hope Steph accepts this as a challenge instead of going into a spaz cancer routine.

the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
EnySpree
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11/13/2005  11:16 AM
Marb doesn't take games over with the pass and that has been his knock. If Marbs is taking over a game it's with his scoring ability. Marb doesn't have game breaking point guard skills. That's what Larry Brown wants. Baron, Steve, Nash....even Kirk Hinrich has that skill....

Steph is more like Kevin Johnson. Actually they are exactly alike. KJ was about taking his man off the dribble and scoring....later on he became a three point shooter. He had huge passing numbers like Marbs does now but not just like Marbs he was not a passer.
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Knight
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11/13/2005  11:18 AM
Posted by McK1:

hope Steph accepts this as a challenge instead of going into a spaz cancer routine.

Me too. In the SAS interview Marbs stated that he doesn't buy into the view that players can make their teammates better--until he grasps the importance of teammates creating easier baskets for each other, he won't get it. Davis, unselfishly, made Foyle into a hero last game.
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
McK1
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11/13/2005  11:41 AM
KJ didn't disappear in 4th qtrs.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
Bonn1997
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11/13/2005  11:52 AM
I didn't see the 4th quarter but do these two quotes seem to be a complete contradiction?
When asked about Marbury's performance, Brown suggested yesterday that statistics can be misleading, calling the kind of points Marbury scored late in the game "fool's gold."
Marbury finished with 22 points and five assists but didn't score or record an assist in the last five minutes.
Was he padding his stats in the final minutes as suggested by the first quote or doing nothing statistically in those minutes as suggested by the 2nd quote (merely one sentence later in the same article!)?
Bobby
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11/13/2005  11:52 AM
lets make starbury the scapegoat. starbury does not have this team playing 0-5. brown does

then again, i keep reminding myself, brown's 1st year in philly had the same 0-5 start with philly finishing 31-51
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crzymdups
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11/13/2005  11:53 AM
Posted by Knight:

"He's getting better and better. I think he's trying and that's the thing that I see. Late in the game he has to be a lot more aggressive, like Jamal (Crawford) was. I think Steph, in situations like that, has to get others the shot the way Baron did. Baron just took over the game at the end. Look at his stats - they didn't stand out. He won the game. Him and (Adonal) Foyle."
_________________

Despite how everyone is raving about Marbs, I think Larry's assessment is dead on: "fool's gold".


Larry Brown can shut the hell up anytime now. I'm glad he realized Foyle had something to do with the game. I wonder if he noticed who was guarding Foyle and if he noticed that he put that person in the game to guard him? I wonder if he'll ever look at the players he puts around Steph. It's not like Baron Davis "took over the game" with two backups at the C and PF. He "took over" because GSW's best players were on the floor in crunch time. Larry Brown is a simpering, egotistic douche bag. Just leave, Larry.
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Bonn1997
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11/13/2005  11:53 AM
Posted by Knight:
Posted by McK1:

hope Steph accepts this as a challenge instead of going into a spaz cancer routine.

Me too. In the SAS interview Marbs stated that he doesn't buy into the view that players can make their teammates better--until he grasps the importance of teammates creating easier baskets for each other, he won't get it.
hmmm. I didn't hear the interview. What were Marbury's *exact* words?


Killa4luv
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11/13/2005  11:57 AM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by Knight:

"He's getting better and better. I think he's trying and that's the thing that I see. Late in the game he has to be a lot more aggressive, like Jamal (Crawford) was. I think Steph, in situations like that, has to get others the shot the way Baron did. Baron just took over the game at the end. Look at his stats - they didn't stand out. He won the game. Him and (Adonal) Foyle."
_________________

Despite how everyone is raving about Marbs, I think Larry's assessment is dead on: "fool's gold".


Larry Brown can shut the hell up anytime now. I'm glad he realized Foyle had something to do with the game. I wonder if he noticed who was guarding Foyle and if he noticed that he put that person in the game to guard him? I wonder if he'll ever look at the players he puts around Steph. It's not like Baron Davis "took over the game" with two backups at the C and PF. He "took over" because GSW's best players were on the floor in crunch time. Larry Brown is a simpering, egotistic douche bag. Just leave, Larry.
I agree with the first part, but not so much about Larry Brown leaving. LB had Malik Rose and AD in, 2 guys who play like they are allergic to jumping, and Adonal 'Tin' Foyle, was looking like Shaq.


Knight
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11/13/2005  12:03 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Knight:
Posted by McK1:

hope Steph accepts this as a challenge instead of going into a spaz cancer routine.

Me too. In the SAS interview Marbs stated that he doesn't buy into the view that players can make their teammates better--until he grasps the importance of teammates creating easier baskets for each other, he won't get it.
hmmm. I didn't hear the interview. What were Marbury's *exact* words?

I deleted the video...somebody who has it please do the transcript. It was in the context of whether he really was the be pg in the league, he said something like he just comes to play every night and can't control how other people play.
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
Ray15
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11/13/2005  12:07 PM

Posted by crzymdups:


[/quote]


Larry Brown can shut the hell up anytime now. I'm glad he realized Foyle had something to do with the game. I wonder if he noticed who was guarding Foyle and if he noticed that he put that person in the game to guard him? I wonder if he'll ever look at the players he puts around Steph. It's not like Baron Davis "took over the game" with two backups at the C and PF. He "took over" because GSW's best players were on the floor in crunch time. Larry Brown is a simpering, egotistic douche bag. Just leave, Larry.

[/quote]


And people think it's possible to rebuild in NY? Are you nuts? -- Everybody claims to have the patience but when we finally make an effort to change the culture of this team, you can't handle it. Larry Brown has already taught this team to be tough. He's taught them how to defend and give effort on both sides of the ball. We've had a chance to win every single game we've played and it's a work in progress to teach them how to win games in the final two mins. Look at what Skiles did for the Bulls last year -- he added a toughness and a defensive mentality that changed the culture of the team. Look what Coughlin has done for the Giants -- again changed the culture of the team and created a winning mentality. This is the exact thing Larry Brown is doing, but it will take time. I would be willing to bet we make the playoffs this year -- We've improved every game and once we start winning the close ones, we'll be a very tough team to play.
Defense and Toughness
Bonn1997
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11/13/2005  12:07 PM
can't control how other people play
That's a bit different. Any PG who's being honest would say he can help teammates but cannot "CONTROL" how they play
Knight
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11/13/2005  12:10 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
can't control how other people play
That's a bit different. Any PG who's being honest would say he can help teammates but cannot "CONTROL" how they play

That was HIS response to the question, which was about the criticism that he doesn't make his teammates better. That was how Marbury spun the question. PG's can make their teammates "better" by helping them get good shots and getting them into a rhythm...to name a few things.

[Edited by - Knight on 11-13-2005 12:11 PM]
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
Bonn1997
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11/13/2005  12:15 PM
That was HIS response to the question, which was about the criticism that he doesn't make his teammates better. That was how Marbury spun the question. PG's can make their teammates "better" by helping them get good shots and getting them into a rhythm...to name a few things.
I agree they can do all that, but they can't "control" how their teammates play. You can set up Malik Rose perfectly but can't control the fact that he'll be blocked by 6'2" PGs! You can't control that Keith has bad hands and won't catch your passes. Can't control that Kurt can't jump and has turtle slow feet. You can help to improve these players, which Steph obviously has done for many teammates, but you can't control how they play. How well they play is determined by (a) the PG AND (b) many, many factors that the PG can't control
Solace
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11/13/2005  12:18 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
That was HIS response to the question, which was about the criticism that he doesn't make his teammates better. That was how Marbury spun the question. PG's can make their teammates "better" by helping them get good shots and getting them into a rhythm...to name a few things.
I agree they can do all that, but they can't "control" how their teammates play. You can set up Malik Rose perfectly but can't control the fact that he'll be blocked by 6'2" PGs! You can't control that Keith has bad hands and won't catch your passes. Can't control that Kurt can't jump and has turtle slow feet. You can help to improve these players, which Steph obviously has done for many teammates, but you can't control how they play. How well they play is determined by (a) the PG AND (b) many, many factors that the PG can't control

I notice you mentioned Keith but left off your boy, Mr. Fugazy. For the record, KVH had good hands. I will agree that Steph played with some pretty crappy teammates at various times, though.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
Bonn1997
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11/13/2005  12:19 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by Bonn1997:
That was HIS response to the question, which was about the criticism that he doesn't make his teammates better. That was how Marbury spun the question. PG's can make their teammates "better" by helping them get good shots and getting them into a rhythm...to name a few things.
I agree they can do all that, but they can't "control" how their teammates play. You can set up Malik Rose perfectly but can't control the fact that he'll be blocked by 6'2" PGs! You can't control that Keith has bad hands and won't catch your passes. Can't control that Kurt can't jump and has turtle slow feet. You can help to improve these players, which Steph obviously has done for many teammates, but you can't control how they play. How well they play is determined by (a) the PG AND (b) many, many factors that the PG can't control

I notice you mentioned Keith but left off your boy, Mr. Fugazy. For the record, KVH had good hands. I will agree that Steph played with some pretty crappy teammates at various times, though.
Never saw Keith have good hands. I saw him miss a lot of catches and dribble off his feet many times. He is a nice role player as a 6th or 7th man, though. TT is awful. I didn't see the need to list every bad player he played with.



[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 11-13-2005 12:20 PM]
BlueSeats
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11/13/2005  12:19 PM
Posted by EnySpree:
Steph is more like Kevin Johnson. Actually they are exactly alike. KJ was about taking his man off the dribble and scoring....later on he became a three point shooter. He had huge passing numbers like Marbs does now but not just like Marbs he was not a passer.

Whenever Steph is knocked as a playmaker people always point to his 8 apg, but when KJ was healthy he was upwards of an 11 - 12 apg guy.

Other times people will knock Steph as a guy who shoots too much. To the best of my recollection he only took about 15 shots per game last year - that is not too much. But what Larry is talking about is what Steph's problem is. His impact is too low relative to his stats. He's just not a SMART PG. He doesn't do the right thing at the right time. He doesn't know how to control a game, especially from start to finish.


Bonn1997
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11/13/2005  12:21 PM
His impact is too low relative to his stats. He's just not a SMART PG. He doesn't do the right thing at the right time.
Give us some concrete examples
Brown takes Shot at Steph (article)

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