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Zone defense is destroying us.
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Killa4luv
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11/4/2005  10:15 PM
We can't score because we have no solid outside shooting.

Cury gets doubled, but we still can't score because A) he doesn't pass, B) no one who he passes it to can shoot.

LB has Steph not shooting the rock, he passed on alot of 3's and he is the only one who made any threes tonight for us.

Q, Matt Barnes, AD, and even Mo taylor couldnt buy a basket.

Craw only took 5 shots. I think LB is in his head too much and he needs some freedom to let the trigger go a little bit more, we are having problems scoring.

Steph needs some more freedom to shoot too, although he missed alot of shots he usually makes.

FT shooting was better. Rebounding was excellent, but we could not put the ball in the whole. We have enough big bodies to rebound well, we proved that tonight. I think we should play inside out, but also let Craw and Marbs loose. Craw is a gunner, he needs to shoot or he is being under utilized.

More Frye. He attacked the glass, and although he didn't make most of his shoots, we know he can shoot and he can make guys pay for doubling Curry. LB is figuring this thing out right now. I'm not upset, we are showing improvement in key areas.
AUTOADVERT
OldFan
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11/4/2005  10:33 PM
Crawford does not need more freedom - we'll end up with the same old craw. Yes it will take him time to feel comfortable not putting up a shot whenever he gets the urge. It will take time for him to adjust. But if he doesn't learn to be more selective then he has been in the past in the long run he won't help us anyway.

Yep - we got a young team that doesn't know how to play together and has weaknesses - no surprise. It will take a while to work out who should play, how they should play and if and what other pieces we need to acquire.
crzymdups
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11/4/2005  10:36 PM
Posted by OldFan:

Crawford does not need more freedom - we'll end up with the same old craw. Yes it will take him time to feel comfortable not putting up a shot whenever he gets the urge. It will take time for him to adjust. But if he doesn't learn to be more selective then he has been in the past in the long run he won't help us anyway.

Yep - we got a young team that doesn't know how to play together and has weaknesses - no surprise. It will take a while to work out who should play, how they should play and if and what other pieces we need to acquire.

agreed. it'd be nice to get a few wins in the meantime though.
¿ △ ?
OldFan
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11/4/2005  11:08 PM
Yes - but I get a lot less frustrated if I set my expectation low
Solace
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11/5/2005  5:53 AM
We do have problems with the zone. We need to get a 'zone buster', shooter specialist to come off the bench in situations like this. In the mid-90s, we had Hubert Davis who fit that role perfectly. We need to get a player like that. It would really help against the zone.

Disclaimer: This is not a plea for Allan Houston. I'm glad he retired. :P

[Edited by - Solace on 11-05-2005 05:53 AM]
...
codeunknown
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11/5/2005  6:32 AM
Zone defense isues just scratch the surface.

Spacing on offense was a bigger disaster - our guys let squads get away with doubling Curry - whose passing IQ is next to 0 anyway. First off, the guard that feeds the post need to clear the **** out of the way. Today, in the 15 minutes Curry played, the double came from the top of the key - and Curry passed it maybe twice - to the wing where the ball stalled. Shot clock wasted --> another contested shot.

One glaring positive was evident - we fed the ball into the post quickly. That seems trivial but our players absolutely suck at it - the number of broken plays from just that ends up costing us too many possessions. Today, we got it to Curry where he had enough time - but not enough space- to operate. Part of that is Curry's fault and part of it is the other players (our players) who basically sit in his lap when he's posting up.

First striking issue - Larry likes to swing the ball around the perimeter (as he did in Detroit) to shift the defense and let guys on the floor assume the responsibility of taking good shots. That means fewer set plays and our offense will be torn asunder by mistakes until guys learn how to make decisions. In my opinion, swinging the ball aimlessly around the perimeter wastes shot clock and makes guys hesitant anyway. Everything is a scrap right now - which might be a result of the shifting line-ups. But, Brown's offensive philosophy is not appropriate for winning games now.
Run set plays.

Other issues - 1) Marbury-Frye pick and rolls need to be set HIGH - give Marbury the chance to open up the court. 2) Run curl plays for Q and Crawford - these guys need to be closer than 22 feet when they catch the ball - preferably with the defender lagging. Crawford must make that shot consistently. 3) Every opposing player on the floor is assigned help defense responsibilities. Our guys need to cut consistently after the ball is passed to the help concern. Marbury and Crawford are guilty of squatting on the perimeter. Q was better in the second-half.

- Ending on a positive note - the Ariza back-door dunk was a result of executing point 3. There is no reason he shouldn't be getting 30 minutes.
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
Killa4luv
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11/5/2005  10:43 AM
Posted by codeunknown:

Zone defense isues just scratch the surface.

Spacing on offense was a bigger disaster - our guys let squads get away with doubling Curry - whose passing IQ is next to 0 anyway. First off, the guard that feeds the post need to clear the **** out of the way. Today, in the 15 minutes Curry played, the double came from the top of the key - and Curry passed it maybe twice - to the wing where the ball stalled. Shot clock wasted --> another contested shot.

One glaring positive was evident - we fed the ball into the post quickly. That seems trivial but our players absolutely suck at it - the number of broken plays from just that ends up costing us too many possessions. Today, we got it to Curry where he had enough time - but not enough space- to operate. Part of that is Curry's fault and part of it is the other players (our players) who basically sit in his lap when he's posting up.

First striking issue - Larry likes to swing the ball around the perimeter (as he did in Detroit) to shift the defense and let guys on the floor assume the responsibility of taking good shots. That means fewer set plays and our offense will be torn asunder by mistakes until guys learn how to make decisions. In my opinion, swinging the ball aimlessly around the perimeter wastes shot clock and makes guys hesitant anyway. Everything is a scrap right now - which might be a result of the shifting line-ups. But, Brown's offensive philosophy is not appropriate for winning games now.
Run set plays.

Other issues - 1) Marbury-Frye pick and rolls need to be set HIGH - give Marbury the chance to open up the court. 2) Run curl plays for Q and Crawford - these guys need to be closer than 22 feet when they catch the ball - preferably with the defender lagging. Crawford must make that shot consistently. 3) Every opposing player on the floor is assigned help defense responsibilities. Our guys need to cut consistently after the ball is passed to the help concern. Marbury and Crawford are guilty of squatting on the perimeter. Q was better in the second-half.

- Ending on a positive note - the Ariza back-door dunk was a result of executing point 3. There is no reason he shouldn't be getting 30 minutes.
I agree with everything you said. I would also add that they should have a mandatory reset on every offensive rebound.Just because you caught the ball and are under the basket, doesn't mean you should shoot it (except for eddy Curry).

With a starting lineup of Steph, Q, Ariza, Frye and Curry, we have to spot up shooters (Frye,Q) 2 slashers (Ariza, Steph) and our post up ooption (Curry). Like you said spacing is very important, but with that lineup they have the shooters to space the ball properly, and it also will give the slashers and Curry room to operate.

I need to see way more Pick and rolls with Marbury and Frye.

Steph30+ minutes
Frye 25 minutes
Ariza 30 minutes
Curry 30 minutes


WOODMANnYk
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11/5/2005  1:22 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by codeunknown:

Zone defense isues just scratch the surface.

Spacing on offense was a bigger disaster - our guys let squads get away with doubling Curry - whose passing IQ is next to 0 anyway. First off, the guard that feeds the post need to clear the **** out of the way. Today, in the 15 minutes Curry played, the double came from the top of the key - and Curry passed it maybe twice - to the wing where the ball stalled. Shot clock wasted --> another contested shot.

One glaring positive was evident - we fed the ball into the post quickly. That seems trivial but our players absolutely suck at it - the number of broken plays from just that ends up costing us too many possessions. Today, we got it to Curry where he had enough time - but not enough space- to operate. Part of that is Curry's fault and part of it is the other players (our players) who basically sit in his lap when he's posting up.

First striking issue - Larry likes to swing the ball around the perimeter (as he did in Detroit) to shift the defense and let guys on the floor assume the responsibility of taking good shots. That means fewer set plays and our offense will be torn asunder by mistakes until guys learn how to make decisions. In my opinion, swinging the ball aimlessly around the perimeter wastes shot clock and makes guys hesitant anyway. Everything is a scrap right now - which might be a result of the shifting line-ups. But, Brown's offensive philosophy is not appropriate for winning games now.
Run set plays.

Other issues - 1) Marbury-Frye pick and rolls need to be set HIGH - give Marbury the chance to open up the court. 2) Run curl plays for Q and Crawford - these guys need to be closer than 22 feet when they catch the ball - preferably with the defender lagging. Crawford must make that shot consistently. 3) Every opposing player on the floor is assigned help defense responsibilities. Our guys need to cut consistently after the ball is passed to the help concern. Marbury and Crawford are guilty of squatting on the perimeter. Q was better in the second-half.

- Ending on a positive note - the Ariza back-door dunk was a result of executing point 3. There is no reason he shouldn't be getting 30 minutes.
I agree with everything you said. I would also add that they should have a mandatory reset on every offensive rebound.Just because you caught the ball and are under the basket, doesn't mean you should shoot it (except for eddy Curry).

With a starting lineup of Steph, Q, Ariza, Frye and Curry, we have to spot up shooters (Frye,Q) 2 slashers (Ariza, Steph) and our post up ooption (Curry). Like you said spacing is very important, but with that lineup they have the shooters to space the ball properly, and it also will give the slashers and Curry room to operate.

I need to see way more Pick and rolls with Marbury and Frye.

Steph30+ minutes
Frye 25 minutes
Ariza 30 minutes
Curry 30 minutes
I totally agree with you!!!

Steph, Q Ariza Curry and Frye as the starting lineup.. I think eventually we will see that lineup on the floor more often..
The Zone Defense is really killing us.. ALso, the opposition has been taken the ball from MArbury with the press.

When he's dribbling, they put 2 guys on him and he's forced to relinguish the ball.. Knicks offense seemed rattled while being pressed...


[Edited by - WOODMANnYk on 11-05-2005 1:35 PM]
The Future. GO KNICKS!
codeunknown
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11/5/2005  5:35 PM
A point about the Curry post-up - if 2 guys are going to stay on the same side of the court as him (a la Phil Jackson's triangle), Curry needs to learn to re-post deeper to open up space and make teams pay for swarming. If the ball swings to the top of the key, you flash in the lane. If the ball switches to the wing, you establish position in the low post.

The other set I would run is Frye in the high post with Marbury and Crawford on the wings and Q on the other side of the court. The advantage here is the lane is all of a sudden wide open because because of Frye's range. Its a nice multi-option set - 1) Quick feed to Curry in the low-post on the opposite side of the court (with the 4 unable to double), 2) Back-door cuts by Q 3) hand-offs to Marbs and Craw 3) a Frye 15-ft shot 4) quick screen for Marbs and Craw -- dribble penetration.

Essentially Frye plays a Webber-esque role in the Kings offense with the advantage of Curry at the 5.
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
Killa4luv
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11/5/2005  5:51 PM
Posted by codeunknown:

A point about the Curry post-up - if 2 guys are going to stay on the same side of the court as him (a la Phil Jackson's triangle), Curry needs to learn to re-post deeper to open up space and make teams pay for swarming. If the ball swings to the top of the key, you flash in the lane. If the ball switches to the wing, you establish position in the low post.

The other set I would run is Frye in the high post with Marbury and Crawford on the wings and Q on the other side of the court. The advantage here is the lane is all of a sudden wide open because because of Frye's range. Its a nice multi-option set - 1) Quick feed to Curry in the low-post on the opposite side of the court (with the 4 unable to double), 2) Back-door cuts by Q 3) hand-offs to Marbs and Craw 3) a Frye 15-ft shot 4) quick screen for Marbs and Craw -- dribble penetration.

Essentially Frye plays a Webber-esque role in the Kings offense with the advantage of Curry at the 5.
This is what I been talking about for the longest!!!!!!!

Where is this? This allows Curry, Frye or Marbury to create a play depending on what they choose to so.

Zone defense is destroying us.

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