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a question about marbury for you all...
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djsunyc
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11/4/2005  10:11 AM
before i ask the question, i should just state where i stand with steph.

i think he's a really good player. i also think he's proven that he can't carry a team himself and has flaws. he's like the gift and the curse for us. he doesn't get credit for what he does do but he does get grilled for what he doesn't. he is not exempt for criticism from me but i also realize that without him, it may be tougher for us. so in essence, i truly don't know what his role is with us - is he around for the long haul or is he a stop-gap? (my gut tells me stop-gap)

so on to the question...

if we don't perform like we want to (i.e. not show true development as a team throughout the year), is this steph's last shot? do we ship him out at the end of the year if things don't go as planned? i realize moving him out will return LESS talent but sometimes addition by subtraction (i.e. the pheonix example).

there are few here that put him on a pedestal and few here that absolutely loathe him. what do we do with him if things don't work out this year?

[Edited by - djsunyc on 11-04-2005 10:12 AM]
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Killa4luv
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11/4/2005  10:54 AM
First, I wouldn't assume that because things didn't work out that it was his fault, which is what you seem to be doing with your question.

What if things dont work out because Q is shooting 35% from the field, or because Crawford never figures out how to play the right way, or because our bigs never figure out how to rebound? Steph should go for that?

Steph is not the coach. As long as he does what is asked of him it wouldn't make sense to trade him for less talent.

If the team doesn't develop do you fire LB or Isiah? Why is Steph's hhead the only one on the chopping block in this hypothetical scenario?

This is a loaded question.

AND your 'addition by subtraction' comment concerning Phoenix is unclear to me.

[Edited by - killa4luv on 11-04-2005 10:56 AM]
djsunyc
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11/4/2005  2:30 PM
nah, i'm not saying it would be his fault at all. all i would be saying is that another year would be wasted by not going all out with the youth movement. and when the youth we have really get better, steph will be pretty much on the downside of his career so should we just speed up the process and move him now instead of later.

if Q sucks, or jamal sucks, or ariza sucks - that's not the point. it's that we're building up that young base and we're not building around marbury otherwise someone like SAR would be here.
bobs3304
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11/4/2005  2:33 PM
He's not even saying it's Marbury's "fault".

He's saying that by keeping him, the pluses may not be worth the negatives, especially with such a young team.

DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
Bippity10
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11/4/2005  2:34 PM
I think we can revisit this question around game number 50 or 60. Asking it after game 1 with a new coach and a totally revamped roster is a little unfair. No?
I just hope that people will like me
bobs3304
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11/4/2005  2:40 PM
I def. don't mind keeping Steph around if we start winning and our roster is more rounded out....but there's still alot of spring cleaning to be done.

Seeing the difficulty in trading Steph...I think Jamal is gonna get the axe sooner or later unless he noticably improves himself.
Someone made a good point today -- he's not playing point b/c that's necessarily his new niche.....he's playing there for shot control.

I guess for him it comes down to - does he WANT to play the way Larry expects him to...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
boomann
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11/4/2005  2:41 PM
it's a looooonnnng season. We'll see
"We need another shot blocker and we need more girth in the middle, once that happens we have a chance to be a pretty decent team" Isiah on draft night
Ira
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11/4/2005  3:25 PM
If we had one or two other players who could play at or close to Marbury's level, we'd have a good team. He's the one top player we have. Why would you want to trade him?
Killa4luv
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11/4/2005  3:26 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

nah, i'm not saying it would be his fault at all. all i would be saying is that another year would be wasted by not going all out with the youth movement. and when the youth we have really get better, steph will be pretty much on the downside of his career so should we just speed up the process and move him now instead of later.

if Q sucks, or jamal sucks, or ariza sucks - that's not the point. it's that we're building up that young base and we're not building around marbury otherwise someone like SAR would be here.
Is Marbury the reason we are not going with an all out youth movement?
Whose progress is he stunting? Certainly you don't think any NBA team can have Nate as a starter.

When the youngns get better, steph will be a declining but still very useful player, and we will have a more talented team. I still dont get it. If he sucks and is not making us better and is holding us back in some way, I would say ship him out. I just dont see even the slightest indication of that.
bobs3304
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11/4/2005  3:32 PM
^ Ok smartiepants.

Then why has Marbury been traded 3 times already?

If he's such a STAR then wouldn't he still be with the Nets or Suns?

The truth is, his salary just completely eats up cap space, which makes it that much harder to build a good team around him.

He's also vastly overpaid for his position and impact.

He's a marginal franchise player at best.


That said....he's also our most consistent and most talented player.

But that doesn't mean he's our most untouchable or that we really NEED him.

We'll see how things play out with Larry around. I expect another trade before Christmas to help round out the rotation.

You're right - Marbury has never really been around equal talent. But just his style of play dictates what kind of team this is gonna be, since he's our captain and best player. He's gonna def. make some permanent changes in his game if he's a keeper (ie: instead of trying to assist on each pass...just make the extra pass; rebound better; focus a little less on scoring and a little more on defense; play with more enthusiasm b/c it spreads...)

I think that's a fair summation...



[Edited by - bobs3304 on 11-04-2005 3:35 PM]
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
Pharzeone
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11/4/2005  4:00 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

^ Ok smartiepants.

Then why has Marbury been traded 3 times already?

If he's such a STAR then wouldn't he still be with the Nets or Suns?

The truth is, his salary just completely eats up cap space, which makes it that much harder to build a good team around him.

He's also vastly overpaid for his position and impact.

He's a marginal franchise player at best.


That said....he's also our most consistent and most talented player.

But that doesn't mean he's our most untouchable or that we really NEED him.

We'll see how things play out with Larry around. I expect another trade before Christmas to help round out the rotation.

You're right - Marbury has never really been around equal talent. But just his style of play dictates what kind of team this is gonna be, since he's our captain and best player. He's gonna def. make some permanent changes in his game if he's a keeper (ie: instead of trying to assist on each pass...just make the extra pass; rebound better; focus a little less on scoring and a little more on defense; play with more enthusiasm b/c it spreads...)

I think that's a fair summation...



[Edited by - bobs3304 on 11-04-2005 3:35 PM]

Aren't you the same guy who wanted to move Crawford out so much during the summer. Now it is Marbury. I guess Marbury has a bunch of nice games then its back on to Crawford.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
bobs3304
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11/4/2005  5:21 PM
^ Haha.

To be honest, I'm not exactly thrilled by either. And both have problems filling certain roles that they should be filling. But atleast Marbury is the more efficient and consistent player right now. Plus he's far harder to trade.

So I guess for now Jamal is the odd man out...until he proves us otherwise..
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
Marv
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11/4/2005  5:27 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

^ Ok smartiepants.

Then why has Marbury been traded 3 times already?

[Edited by - bobs3304 on 11-04-2005 3:35 PM]

4 - don't forget milwaukee traded him.
Killa4luv
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11/4/2005  6:16 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

^ Ok smartiepants.

Then why has Marbury been traded 3 times already?

If he's such a STAR then wouldn't he still be with the Nets or Suns?

The truth is, his salary just completely eats up cap space, which makes it that much harder to build a good team around him.

He's also vastly overpaid for his position and impact.

He's a marginal franchise player at best.


That said....he's also our most consistent and most talented player.

But that doesn't mean he's our most untouchable or that we really NEED him.

We'll see how things play out with Larry around. I expect another trade before Christmas to help round out the rotation.

You're right - Marbury has never really been around equal talent. But just his style of play dictates what kind of team this is gonna be, since he's our captain and best player. He's gonna def. make some permanent changes in his game if he's a keeper (ie: instead of trying to assist on each pass...just make the extra pass; rebound better; focus a little less on scoring and a little more on defense; play with more enthusiasm b/c it spreads...)

I think that's a fair summation...



[Edited by - bobs3304 on 11-04-2005 3:35 PM]
Overall I think thats fair too.
BasketballJones
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11/4/2005  6:30 PM
Marbury is one of those frustrating players - he's so talented, and yet there seems to be something missing. My fervent hope is that Larry Brown can help him to realize his potential.

I don't know if the Knicks will want to move him if the season goes badly becuase, if it does, it likely won't be solely Marbury's fault, but will also have to do with all of the new players learning to work together, injuries, etc.



[Edited by - BASKETBALLJONES on 11-04-2005 6:32 PM]
https:// It's not so hard.
bobs3304
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11/4/2005  6:33 PM
^ It's called selflessness.

Marbury doesn't willingly sacrifice for the team.

[Edited by - bobs3304 on 11-04-2005 6:33 PM]
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
Killa4luv
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11/4/2005  10:03 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

^ It's called selflessness.

Marbury doesn't willingly sacrifice for the team.

[Edited by - bobs3304 on 11-04-2005 6:33 PM]


Why don't you explain without using empty platitudes. willingly sacrifice for the team? What the **** does that mean? Is he holding these guys back? What is it that he should sacrifice for the team?
Nalod
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11/4/2005  10:08 PM
He puts his head down when he drives. He doe not see some things.
crzymdups
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11/4/2005  10:08 PM
I think Marbs is basically paralyzed out there right now. He's trying to involve the team to a fault, when he should just be doing his thing. This team needs him as the offensive leader, we don't need him to "sacrifice," we need him to lead and score.

I will say that his moodiness on the court will probably get old if the Ws don't start piling up.
¿ △ ?
Rich
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11/4/2005  10:11 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

I think Marbs is basically paralyzed out there right now. He's trying to involve the team to a fault, when he should just be doing his thing. This team needs him as the offensive leader, we don't need him to "sacrifice," we need him to lead and score.

I agree with this.
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a question about marbury for you all...
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