http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/12/sports/basketball/12knicks.html

CHARLESTON, S.C., Oct. 11 - Allan Houston took a jog or two and Antonio Davis popped in long enough to have dinner, but the Knicks will break training camp Wednesday with no clear sign that either one will contribute this season.

In fact, it seems more likely that neither will.

The October movements of two 30-something veterans rarely warrants more than a footnote, but the Knicks are Larry Brown's team now, and he is generally partial to players with receding hairlines.
In Philadelphia, Brown had Eric Snow and Aaron McKie to help him manage the impetuous Allen Iverson, and in Detroit he had a polished group with experience and success.

The Knicks have little experience and even less success, and the absences of players like Davis and Houston could put a dent in their progress.

Brown has referred to his baby-faced group as "like a college team," and he recently noted: "This is not the same situation I walked into in Detroit. Those guys all knew how to play. There weren't a lot of things that I told them that they hadn't heard before or done before."

Not so with the Knicks. Counting training-camp invitees, Brown has 11 players who are 25 or younger, including three rookies. Of the Knicks who are here and practicing daily, only Penny Hardaway is over 30, and Brown said the lack of experience posed some concern.

"Oh, yeah, you can't invent that," Brown said Tuesday. "But Penny is with us and he's been great. Allan's been great. But we just are very young. That's just the way it is. You hope that the guys we do have that have been through it will continue to do their best to help these young guys."

There is only so much a veteran can do, however, from the bench - which is where Houston may remain - or from Chicago, which is where Davis remains.

About halfway through the nine-day camp here, the 34-year-old Houston had a recurrence of pain in his troublesome left knee, forcing him to cease most on-court activity. He has been shut down until next week.

"Going at this intensity is new, so I'm going to have to just continue to adjust," said Houston, who is struggling to stay patient.

Houston has not scrimmaged or played in a game since January, and he has not played pain-free in two years. He says he hopes to have a better sense of his rehabilitation next week.

Davis, meanwhile, has yet to take the court with his new teammates. He reported here last Thursday night, after being traded with Eddy Curry from Chicago. But Davis was back in Chicago by the next afternoon. The official explanation is that Davis, 36, is attending to family matters - an unspecified operation for his mother-in-law - but Davis has also made it clear he does not want to leave Chicago.

Another bad sign: Curry was wearing jersey No. 34 on Monday. He originally opted for No. 32, explaining that No. 34 was reserved for Davis.

The Knicks are not yet working on a buyout of Davis's $14 million contract, although that day may come. N.B.A. officials are leery of any deal to waive Davis and are watching with great interest. If Davis were to immediately return to the Bulls, it could be considered salary-cap circumvention.

Brown and Isiah Thomas, the team president, want Davis in a Knicks uniform to help tutor their flock of young big men and to provide some defensive toughness.

"His role doesn't have to be what it was when he was younger," said Brown, who previously coached Davis in Indiana. "But the fact that we have all these young kids, young big kids, he'd be great."

Brown last week described Davis as devastated by the trade.

"The fact that he's not here, I doubt that he has any different feelings," Brown said Tuesday.

Davis has played in 93 playoff games. Houston (63), Hardaway (64) and Malik Rose (82) are the only Knicks to have played in the finals. But Hardaway was a bit player last season, and it is not yet clear what role Rose will play for Brown.

Stephon Marbury, Quentin Richardson and Maurice Taylor were cited for their leadership abilities by Brown, but none of them have had much success in his career.

"I think it's something that we can't correct right now," Brown said. "But you hope that within the guys we have, people will step up and take that responsibility."


I strongly believed this will be Larry's toughest challenge ever.. He's has no established leader on this team...


[Edited by - WOODMANNyK on 10-12-2005 11:11 AM]

Malik will lead. And I bet Steph and Jamal will pick up Brown's game plan quickly.

Malik and Q will be the locker room leaders of this team and look for Nate to be the one keeping the team amped up.

Hey, we wanted young? so here we go, I have no problem with the youth, LB is a great teacher, I am sure he will manage..

the thing about great coaches is that they're usually dour about their chances to win.

the way it sounds, I feel like Larry's expectations are for 30 wins or so. We just spent cadoodles of money, had three upper classmen picks + the 8th pick in the draft and we only traded off 1 older player in KT

that may be the case. Let me ask you this... what is the difference between the Griz when Hubie took over the first year and the one he coached the 2nd year? The reason I bring this up is I'm pretty sure the team was the same. Except when Hubie tooks over with 74 games remaining their record was 28-46. One year later they were 50-32 with essentially the same core of players. Sometimes it takes awhile to establish a style of play. Sometimes it takes a year to undo bad habits, to teach defense, to build chemistry.

Just assuming that because the talent has been upgraded and the coaching has as well that we should win 50 games is fool hardy.

If you watched those team you would have seen that despite the wins not coming that progress was being made, that Hubie was in these guys heads, that they were playing hqard and defending and getting better. It just took a year to see those results. Can Knick fans be that patient?

that may be the case. Let me ask you this... what is the difference between the Griz when Hubie took over the first year and the one he coached the 2nd year? The reason I bring this up is I'm pretty sure

the team was the same. Except when Hubie tooks over with 74 games remaining their record was 28-46. One year later they were 50-32 with essentially the same core of players. Sometimes it takes awhile to establish a style of play. Sometimes it takes a year to undo bad habits, to teach defense, to build chemistry

.

I feel you on the building of the chemistry but let me break something down real quick. Jamal and Nate have been playing together since grade school. Q-Rich, Eddy Curry and Jamal are all familar with each other from Chicago. Mo T and Jamal played at the same college. I could go on and on about Trevor and Matt Barnes, but my point is this most of the players zeke brought in know each other and should have no problem bonding. Chemistry Shemistry we going to the ship!

its overrated. Training camp is nice, thats for sure, but Hubie had over 70 games to get it right. Sorry, but if you can get it in 70 NBA games training camp isnt putting you over the edge. The difference is all the same guys came back, knew exactly what to expect and it showed in the win column. As for guys knowing each other and even liking each other thats great, it can only help, but its not the same as playing a season of NBA games together... not even close.

If we want to get off to a good start it starts and ends with Jamal and Marbury. If those 2 guys can play well and create for the other guys everything else will follow. This has to happen on both sides of the ball.

there is no difference between us (33 wins last year and no explanation for it) and the grizz' 28 wins...we will win 50 because brown is a better coach than hubie and we should have won 43 last year.

the roster is better...50 wins.

another key to turning it around is low expectations. (keep in mind the griz went back to sucking)

Why *should* we have won 43 games last year?

because as larry brown said we didn't have our best player last year since Allan Houston was hurt that should at least count for 10 more wins. And most of our losses were close a couple of three's by houston and we would have been in the playoffs