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H20 might be calling it a career
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Nalod
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10/11/2005  10:28 PM
Maybe Patrick didn't hurt as much as alan? Who are we to judge? Some can play in pain and be effective, some can play in pain and can't be effectve.

Im he is giving it his all, and im sure that he both wants to try and make it back, and the insurance requires him to make an effort.

Im sure we long moved on with our plans and this is a real non event.

I sorry to see the healthy Allan not playing again. Time to move forward and just wish him well and be glad for the good memories.

Im glad I watched the Philly comback game last year!
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Silverfuel
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10/11/2005  10:46 PM
I cannot believe how much of a pass Allan Houston gets on this forum.

Nalod, are you saying "maybe Houston's injury hurts more than Ewings?" The dude refused surgery 2 summers ago and still hasnt recovered. I guess we shouldnt say anything bad about Houston because he cannot play in pain effectively but its fair game to shoot Tim Thomas when he was playing with the memory of a dead family member. I didnt hear anyone say "some can play in emotional distress and not be effective."
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
gunsnewing
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10/11/2005  10:48 PM
I'm glad we didn't waive Houston. Him retiring will be a lot better since his HUGE contract will come off the cap. Even if he plays in the beginning of the season he will be forced to retire eventually
oohah
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10/11/2005  11:05 PM
I guess we shouldnt say anything bad about Houston because he cannot play in pain effectively but its fair game to shoot Tim Thomas when he was playing with the memory of a dead family member. I didnt hear anyone say "some can play in emotional distress and not be effective."

Wow, this is the proverbial apples and oranges.

When you play in physical pain it is because there is damage to your body, the damage to your body is what is holding you back.

Emotional pain on the other hand, does not apply directly to what you can do physically. This is not to say that emotional pain cannot effect how or even if you can play. It can, and this applies to Tim Thomas, Mike Sweetney and Marcus camby. But Tim Thomas has always been average or below average regardless of any kind of emotional or physical pain, as opposed to Allan Houston, who has been a very good player in his time (We have been through this before.)

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Silverfuel
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10/11/2005  11:18 PM
Posted by oohah:

When you play in physical pain it is because there is damage to your body, the damage to your body is what is holding you back.
You can be held back by emotional pain too.
Emotional pain on the other hand, does not apply directly to what you can do physically.
It can. I have experienced it. It absolutely can.
This is not to say that emotional pain cannot effect how or even if you can play. It can, and this applies to Tim Thomas, Mike Sweetney and Marcus camby.
Didnt you say emotinoal pain does not directly apply to what you can do physically?

===============================================================================
But Tim Thomas has always been average or below average regardless of any kind of emotional or physical pain, as opposed to Allan Houston, who has been a very good player in his time (We have been through this before.)

oohah
Ok, so if someone brings up Ewing, then its "maybe he felt less pain". If I bring up TT, its a different kind of pain and doesnt apply cause he is not as good? Wow, Houston gets a pass on this forum like no other player.

[Edited by - Silverfuel on 10-11-2005 11:19 PM]
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Bonn1997
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10/11/2005  11:25 PM
Posted by knicks1248:

Actually I'm more less thinking about the medical treatment money can buy. I'm almost sure he will not be living in pain once he decides to retire.

I almost want to say he should play in pain just to justify that contract, but i guess i would sound evil.

The one question i always wondered was why he never re-did his contract just so we could have brought in help, like kg, shaq, hakim, D Robbison, ect.

Thats painful to understand.
Maybe when you sign a big contract part of the reason to sign it is that you know that you'll be making a ton of money to help secure your family even if you get a terrible injury. The huge guaranteed money is compensation for the huge risk you're taking to your body by playing 82 games of a grueling sport.
Allanfan20
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10/11/2005  11:30 PM
His contract before this one was 52 mm. You really don't think his family is secure? I am pretty sure they are all fine. I don't think, however, Allan should HAVE to reconstruct his contract. Why should he? The Knicks gave it to him. He's done his best. Too bad for Dolan, their mistake.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Bonn1997
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10/11/2005  11:32 PM
You're securing several generations of your family. $52 mil may sound like a lot now just like 3 generations ago $100 thousand sounded like an outrageous fortune for an athlete to make.
Silverfuel
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10/11/2005  11:34 PM
If a players contract in the NBA can be reconstructed which will help the team, the player should reconstruct the contract. This has to be last resort which was pretty true in the Layden era. Presuming the player wants the team to win and there arent any other ways becuase of being capped out, a TEAM PLAYER would help out his team by reconstructing his contract.

If he doesnt care about the team or winning then he doesnt have to reconstruct his contract.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
McK1
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10/11/2005  11:35 PM
Glad I saw that Philly game too. Hou was the best player in Orange and Blue for 1 last night.

Hou wasn't a 100 mill player but who anywhere in their right mind would have said NO.

btw,

I don't believe you can restructure contracts in the NBA. NFL yes. NBA no. KG's contract was frontloaded. I think AI' was too.

[Edited by - McK1 on 10-11-2005 11:39 PM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
nyk4ever
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10/11/2005  11:45 PM
It's too bad, I wish Allan could have ended his career on his terms rather then having to worry about a bum wheel every year. He would have been absolutely perfect for the team that Isiah has put together too, if he were to get out on the floor for 16-18 minutes a night and just light it up from 3 while Marbury drives and dishes and Curry posts and dishes. Oh well, it would have been nice the Knicks will done what they've done the past 2 seasons and thats play without him.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Silverfuel
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10/11/2005  11:48 PM
I agree nyk4ever. This would be the best year for Houston to be healthy and play for the Knicks. He will be most effective when playing as the 3rd option on a good offense. We have our low post presence and we have our penetrater on offense. We need a spot up shooter and Houston could be the guy.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
oohah
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10/12/2005  12:21 AM
You can be held back by emotional pain too.

I already ceded that.
It can. I have experienced it. It absolutely can.
'

Without revealing what it is that caused you profound pain, would you please describe to me how you emotional DIRECTLY held back your physical ability to accomplish any task. And when I say DIRECTLY please don't tell me: "I felt weak" etc. Remember you are comparing a knee injury to emotional trauma (somehow). For instance, how emotional distress prevented you from opening a door like a broken hand would.
Didnt you say emotinoal pain does not directly apply to what you can do physically?

Yes I did and I stand by it. I said "DIRECTLY AFFECT". For example when Patrick Ewing blew out his wrist it DIRECTLY AFFECTED his ability to shoot. Nothing subjective about that. You can try to compare that to emotional injury, but it is absurd. Roger Clemens pitched when his mother died, could he pitch with a busted wrist? Of course not. There is your difference between emotional and physical injury, though I am sure you knew it already.
Ok, so if someone brings up Ewing, then its "maybe he felt less pain".

More accurate would be to say that Ewing's knee problems were not as serious as Houstons.
If I bring up TT, its a different kind of pain

You were the first person to bring up the subject of "emotional distress" in reference to TT.
and doesnt apply cause he is not as good?

It doesn't apply because it is a totally different thing and stress or no, TT sucked. Before a dead relative, after a dead relative, he sucked.
Wow, Houston gets a pass on this forum like no other player.

Wow, your rationales to say something bad about Houston blow my mind.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Rich
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10/12/2005  12:31 AM
Wasn't this all part of the plan when the Knicks bought out JYD instead of him?
mintyfreshness33
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10/12/2005  1:20 AM
quite frankly i would've loved to see houston on the court again
Rich
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10/12/2005  1:58 AM
We all would, particularly if healthy. It's just that it hasn't seemed a realistic possibility for almost two years.
Allanfan20
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10/12/2005  2:19 AM
Sad, but true. Even the beginning of the season, 2 years ago, when he started off real strong, you could see it was only a matter of time when he'd hit his downfall, and in this case, it was weeks. He hasn't climbed back up since then. I don't think getting surgery really would have helped. Probably would have hurt if anything. As Bonn has said a million times, guys 30 and older who have microfracture knee surgery just don't recover enough to be able to play basketball much longer. Jason Kidd may be back, but maybe he starts hitting HIS downfall this season.

I too wish he could magically get better, but clearly, after a week of training camp and he's already feeling pain, it's not going to happen. Very sad, but it looks like the Knicks are moving on in the right direction. Maybe if he retires, the Knicks will give Allan a video tribute as a thank you. He does deserve it, in my mind.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
FrenchKnicks
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10/12/2005  3:16 AM
Yesterday, Houston was asked if he's willing to play through pain this season. "I'm not going to that," Houston said. "But you're getting too ahead of it. We're not there yet about playing through pain."

How stupid is he now? He says that journalists talking about 'playing through pain' are getting ahead of themsleves, but that ******* is not even playing at all, not even scrimmaing. Go retire you old man, this is becoming ridiculous
joec32033
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10/12/2005  5:23 AM
Posted by franco12:

didn't Patrick basically play with sore knees for most of his career?

I don't see this as a definitive that he will retire, but its not looking good. He's simply got to get to a point where he can accept the discomfort.


Ewing's last 2-3 season's were actually because of the injured wrist he suffered from Andrew "FREAKIN'" Lang (this happened on the day before my birthday, BTW).....
~You can't run from who you are.~
Silverfuel
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10/12/2005  6:26 AM
Posted by oohah:

Without revealing what it is that caused you profound pain, would you please describe to me how you emotional DIRECTLY held back your physical ability to accomplish any task. And when I say DIRECTLY please don't tell me: "I felt weak" etc.
Good job trying to mock me. profound pain? "I felt weak". Please! Stop patronizing.
Yes I did and I stand by it. I said "DIRECTLY AFFECT". For example when Patrick Ewing blew out his wrist it DIRECTLY AFFECTED his ability to shoot. Nothing subjective about that. You can try to compare that to emotional injury, but it is absurd. Roger Clemens pitched when his mother died, could he pitch with a busted wrist? Of course not. There is your difference between emotional and physical injury, though I am sure you knew it already.
You are getting way too technical. You saying it has to directly affect so that makes it right? So if someone feels weak because of the mental stress it doesnt count? Please.
More accurate would be to say that Ewing's knee problems were not as serious as Houstons.
He refused surgery on those knee problems. How do you know they were more severe?
It doesn't apply because it is a totally different thing
Oh yea thats right, it has to DIRECTLY APPLY or it doesnt count.
Wow, your rationales to say something bad about Houston blow my mind.
They arent very hard to comprehend. I am not in the minority here. Check some other forums for more but I doubt you will want to. Breaking a sentence into 3 pieces is a good attempt to try and change the issue. I dont really know what you are arguing because you break each line down to too little. Are you trying to say Houston is a warrior like Ewing was?

[Edited by - Silverfuel on 10-12-2005 06:27 AM]
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
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H20 might be calling it a career
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