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curry, the knicks dumbest move? (article)
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djsunyc
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10/5/2005  10:49 AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/chris_mannix/10/04/curry.knicks/index.html

After five long years the New York Knicks finally have their center. Nine players have manned the pivot since Patrick Ewing was traded in 2000, a largely forgettable group that included journeymen centers Luc Longley and Felton Spencer, and power forwards Kurt Thomas and Othella Harrington. Those names are no more than memories now after the Knicks dealt for the Bulls' 22-year-old pivot, Eddy Curry, on Monday night. Gone are the days of trying to fit a power forward into the middle. Curry is a true center with the kind of skills that have been absent from Madison Square Garden since Ewing was last seen firing those baseline jump shots. Isiah Thomas got his man -- and all for the low, low price of agreeing not to submit Curry to a test that could save his life.

But you know what? This is unquestionably the dumbest, most irresponsible move in the history of the NBA.

It was only last March that Curry checked into a Charlotte hospital after noticing some irregularities in his heartbeat during warmups of the Bulls game with the Bobcats. After a battery of tests, Curry was ordered to sit out the remainder of the season while doctors tried to determine what caused his heart to accelerate. Results were inconclusive, but during the exams Curry's doctors found he had a slightly enlarged heart, something not necessarily related to his arrhythmia because the heart can become larger in athletes based on the amount of exercise they put in. It doesn't have to be the result of a viral infection.

As Curry spent the summer flying coast to coast seeking second, third and fourth opinions, the market for the restricted free agent began to dry up. After the Bulls extended Curry a one-year, $5.14 million offer in July, teams had months to bid for the center's services. While far less talented players scored multi-million dollar deals, Curry barely got a second look on the free-agent market. Further complicating matters was the refusal by the insurance company employed by the NBA to provide coverage for Curry given his condition. You want him, they said, you assume the risk -- we aren't touching him.

That led to a series of showdowns between player and team, general manager and agent and doctors in favor of DNA testing and doctors who aren't. Through it all, both sides with the most to lose -- the Bulls and Curry -- remained entrenched in their positions. The Bulls weren't willing to clear Curry to play without the DNA test and Curry wasn't willing to take the test.

Don't talk to me about a player's right to privacy (as Curry's advisors often did). This isn't the Cold War, we're not keeping secrets from the Soviets. Sure, I understand that a handful of doctors say the tests are unnecessary and a host of advisors that say the Bulls could use the test results as a way to extricate themselves from future contracts, but shouldn't Curry and his entourage want to take every effort to ensure that he lives to see age 23?

Then there is Barry Maron.

Maron is a world-renowned specialist in hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, a relatively rare condition that happens to be the most sudden cause of cardiac death in young competitive athletes. He says Curry should take the test, that the results would go a long way toward determining whether Curry does suffer from the condition, which, when combined with his arrythmia, could be fatal. Yet right up to the opening of training camp, Curry still refused.

I don't know who Curry is listening to. There are some who believe Curry has already taken the test independently, but is not sharing the results. His camp flatly denies that, and I tend to believe them. If he had the results -- and they were positive -- Curry would have walked into Chicago GM John Paxson's office with the test results stapled to his forehead. And if he failed, then he should never take another step on a basketball court.

So who is he listening to? Who is telling him this test is bad for Eddy Curry? Do they own VCRs? Let them watch the tapes of Reggie Lewis collapsing on the court in Boston in 1993. Let them watch Hank Gathers crumple to his death on the floor in '90. Let them sit with the families of Olympic gold medalists Sergei Grinkov and Flo Hyman and ask them about cardiac-related death. Cardiac disease in athletes isn't new. The earliest documented case traces back to 490 B.C., when the Greek runner Pheidippides collapsed after running from Marathon to Athens. You say Curry feels fine? Most athletes with hypertrophic cardiomyopathy remain asymptomatic until their time of death. Telling him not to take the test, a test that could save his life, borders on criminal.

If Paxson's history tells us anything, it tells us he isn't trying to drive down Curry's value on the market. Last month Paxson offered Curry a contract, a long-term deal that guaranteed him at least $19 million even if his medical condition prevented him from fulfilling the contract. $19 million. Think about that. Yes, I know the NBA lifestyle is such that $19 million just isn't what it used to be. But as part of the contract, the Bulls would pay Curry $400,000 a year for the next 50 years, meaning if Curry never played another minute because of health reasons, he would be cashing checks from Chicago until he is 77. The only stipulation? Take the test.

So Curry angled his way to New York. That changes nothing. The smart move, Eddy, is still to take the test. Take it for yourself. Take it for your family. But don't take my word for it, Eddy. (What the hell do I know? I'm 25 and my medical training comes from Dr. Carter on ER.) Take the word of Dr. Maron. Take the words of the friends of Hank Gathers, of the widow of Reggie Lewis. Take the word of the people that look at you and wish to God they had the information at their disposal you do now.

"I've seen this movie before," said Jerome Stanley, Lewis' friend and former agent. "Eddy Curry and his family and his agent do not believe he can drop dead and die. You know what? He can drop dead and die. It goes just like that."

This is a situation that calls for league intervention. Last week David Stern threw his tacit support to the Bulls camp, but the commish needs to take it one step further -- he needs to prevent Curry from playing. It's not unprecedented.

Boxing does it. Ask Joe Mesi. The New York fighter, suspended for medical reasons, paraded a veritable dream team of doctors in front of the Nevada Athletic Commission this summer to testify that he was healthy enough to fight despite suffering a brain injury almost two years ago. The commission's response? Thanks for coming, but we don't think this is going to work out.

Stern needs to show some of the spine we're always hearing about. Make a phone call. Send a fax. I don't care if you have to send carrier pigeons to Thomas' office at Madison Square Garden. Curry shouldn't take one jump shot, one wind sprint, or get one whiff of the home locker room until he passes a DNA test. Fine the team $1 million a day if they don't. The checkbook is all most teams seem to understand. How would you feel, commissioner, if the images of the violent brawl in Detroit were replaced by tape of one of your stars lying still on the Garden floor? What would the cost be then?

This is not meant to be an indictment of Eddy Curry nor do I hope this is the last time this forum is used to discuss his career. But this is life. This is a 22-year-old kid we're talking about. This is a person who has a lot to live for. This is a person who should have a long life ahead of him

Let's make sure he lives it.
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tkf
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10/5/2005  10:53 AM
take the test curry.. please!!
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Pharzeone
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10/5/2005  11:00 AM
NY State Labor law prohibits any commericial business in using DNA testing to determine employment status. In addition, NY State Labor law prohibits employers from requesting of current employees and new employees to take DNA testing. MSG stated and a labor board friend of mine told me about this yesterday.
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fishmike
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10/5/2005  11:03 AM
yea.. thats pretty much what I have been saying. Those are my feelings as well. Its a little scary. I dont understand what the DNA test proves or doesnt prove, and I wish there were info out there regarding those points.

You get a lot of opinion based on this, but I think there is a lot of misinformation behind it.

There is certainly a possibility EC played this out to get what he wants. God I hope thats the case, that its just a game to get his cash and play with him buddy at the Garden.

I'm under the assumption that there is missing information here. Either the DNA test isnt nearaly as important as people have made it out to be, or the league and parties involved have information we just arent privy to.

Something just doesnt fit. The NBA and Stern runs as tight a ship as any in sports, and nobody is as image concious as Stern. That being said he's got to be confident this isnt the risk or issue people have made it out to be... isnt it?
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djsunyc
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10/5/2005  11:08 AM
What is Genetic Testing?

Genetic tests use a variety of laboratory techniques to determine if a person has a genetic condition or disease or is likely to get the disease. Individuals may wish to be tested if:

- There is a family history of one specific disease.
- They show symptoms of a genetic disorder,
- They are concerned about passing on a genetic problem to their children.

Genetic tests include techniques to examine genes or markers near the genes. Direct testing for diseases such as cystic fibrosis and sickle cell anemia come from an analysis of an individual's specific genes. A technique called linkage analysis, or indirect testing, is used when the gene cannot be directly identified but can be located within a specific region of a chromosome. This testing requires additional DNA from an affected family member for comparison. Because each person's DNA is unique (except for identical twins), genetic tests also can be used for individual identification ("DNA fingerprinting").

Genetic testing is a complex process, and the results depend both on reliable laboratory procedures and accurate interpretation of results. Tests also vary in sensitivity , that is, their ability to detect mutations or to detect all patients who have or will get the disease. Interpretation of test results is often complex even for trained physicians and other health care specialists. When interpreting the results of any genetic test, one must take into account the probability of false positive or false negative test results. Special training is required to be able to analyze and convey information about genetic testing to affected individuals and their families.

Types of Genetic Testing

- Carrier Identification includes genetic tests used by couples whose families have a history of recessive genetic disorders and who are considering having children. Three common tests include those for cystic fibrosis, Tay-Sachs disease, and sickle-cell trait.

- Prenatal Diagnosis is genetic testing of a fetus. This may occur when there is a risk of bearing a child with genes associated with mental retardation or physical deterioration. Down Syndrome is one of the most common genetic diseases screened by this method.

- Newborn Screening is frequently done as a preventative health measure. Tests usually have clear benefit to the newborn because treatment is available. Phenylketonuria and congenital hypothyroidism are conditions for which testing is conducted in all 50 states.

- Late-onset Disorders include adult diseases such as cancer and heart disease. These diseases are complex and have both genetic and environmental causes. Genetic tests may indicate a susceptibility or predisposition for these diseases. There are diseases caused by single genes, such as Huntington's disease, that also are seen later in life and can be tested at any time.

Identification of genetic information belonging to a specific individual has received a great deal of press coverage lately. Profiles (aka "DNA fingerprints") are complied from the results of DNA testing for one or more genetic markers to identify unique characteristics of an individual. This information is currently used in legal cases involving paternity and in criminal investigations, and it can be used in time of major accidents, disasters, or wars to identify those who have died.


Ethical, Legal, and Social Issues in Genetic Testing

Information from genetic testing can affect the lives of individuals and their families. In addition to personal and family issues, genetic disease or susceptibility may have implications for employment and insurance. Therefore, careful consideration in the handling of this information is very important. Critical issues include:

Privacy - the rights of individuals to maintain privacy. Some genetic tests are required or strongly encouraged for developing fetuses and newborn babies. If an infant is found to be a carrier or likely to develop or be affected by an inherited disease, these findings may affect the future employability or insurability of the individual.

Informed consent - obtaining permission to do genetic testing. One must have knowledge of the risks, benefits, effectiveness, and alternatives to testing in order to understand the implications of genetic testing.

Confidentiality - acknowledgment that genetic information is sensitive and access should to limited to those authorized to receive it. Future access to a person's genetic information also should be limited.


[Edited by - djsunyc on 10-05-2005 11:09 AM]
tkf
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10/5/2005  11:08 AM
Posted by fishmike:

yea.. thats pretty much what I have been saying. Those are my feelings as well. Its a little scary. I dont understand what the DNA test proves or doesnt prove, and I wish there were info out there regarding those points.

You get a lot of opinion based on this, but I think there is a lot of misinformation behind it.

There is certainly a possibility EC played this out to get what he wants. God I hope thats the case, that its just a game to get his cash and play with him buddy at the Garden.

I'm under the assumption that there is missing information here. Either the DNA test isnt nearaly as important as people have made it out to be, or the league and parties involved have information we just arent privy to.

Something just doesnt fit. The NBA and Stern runs as tight a ship as any in sports, and nobody is as image concious as Stern. That being said he's got to be confident this isnt the risk or issue people have made it out to be... isnt it?

you make a good point fish, I mean Terry cumming played for many years with a heart condition(murmur) I don't think DNA testing was around then, but cummings played and never collapsed on the floor as far as I know... If curry used this to escape the bulls then fine, if not, then why not just take the test..


Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
EnySpree
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10/5/2005  11:22 AM
Well I'm like he played this long and he has been ok.....Actually he has gained 4 points per game a year and is on pace to improve to 20 if this stays true.

DNA Testing just doesn't sound right. They need to leave that alone untill more info is available on this subject.

Marbury said he had a heart murmer(sp?). My step son was born with one and it's since hasn't came up again in any testing. That's a little different. My doctor thought there was something wrong with me at 16 too but it was quickly found to be normal. The second opinion i got didn't even detect there was anything wrong to begin with.

Still everyone has heart fluctuation off and on especially when playing sports. Whatever they found could be a result of fat burners or some similiar over the counter supplements.....those things speed up your heart rate and when they wear off there could be signs of irregular heart function. Remember Curry lost around 40 pounds I believe in a short period of time.

Look at Football? Twice guys died from over doing it. Guys try to trim weight too fast and they kill their bodies. This could be the case with Curry.

I pray the dood has a awesome career as a Knick and he can have his number up there with "the Big Fella" and "the Captain".
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crzymdups
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10/5/2005  11:47 AM
What this comes down to is the Knicks have to do due diligence on every legal form of medical testing and make an informed decision. Wins and losses have to go out the window here and Isiah has to think about whether he wants to be responsible for this man's life.

But I think that Curry has a right to protect his privacy in terms of genetic testing. If Stern or any part of the NBA was to mandate genetic testing to allow this man to play I shudder at the consequences. If Curry is proven to be able to safely function by the normal range of testing and he wants to play, my feeling is that it's his decision. Ultimately, this decision should be in Curry's court. This issue has HUGE ramifications for every American with a genetically inherited disease. If employers are allowed to subject their employees to genetic screening many Americans (and other citizens around the world) will be denied jobs on tests that in many cases are non-conclusive.

Yes, Curry may be genetically pre-disposed to a heart condition, but should that prevent him from attaining employment based on his sole skill set? How is the man supposed to provide for his family and earn a living if he is forbidden from earning income at the one job he is fit to earn at. Obviously in Curry's case, he has a decent ammount of money already and can provide for his loved ones. But what about Joe Q. Public, who works a decent job but is struggling to make ends meet? What happens when this case becomes a precedent and Joe Q. is forced to submit to genetic profiling and it's found that he has inherited Parkinson's disease or is predisposed to heart disease? Will his employer be able to legally take away his employment on the grounds that they don't want a messy death or medical situation on their hands?

Look, if Curry has this ailment, he could drop dead running around with his kids. If the man WANTS to play, he has a right to keep this information private and play and provide for his family. I hope that he is getting sound advice and going through with this decision with a clear head, but I admire the stand he is taking because it has ramifications for each and every American who may be carrying a gene they may or may not even know about.

This medical privacy is very important for every American. I know it may seem a little Orwellian or sci-fi, but if the government and employers have access to this information it will lead to a lot of people being unable to find employment for some very dubious reasons.

This is Eddy's decision and it should remain his decision. I just hope he is well informed.
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EnySpree
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10/5/2005  11:58 AM
yeah but i know people that had tuberculosis as a kid and no matter what they will always fail the TB test because of it.

I know people that have the sickle cell trait but not the illness.....it still can have a direct effect to his body as he gets older but WTF.....

DNA testing is crazy to me.....it could end alot of peoples careers. There needs to be some defined rules and there should be an educated vote on this before anyone should do anything.

A doctor already cleared him to play......what else do you want?
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franco12
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10/5/2005  12:05 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

What this comes down to is the Knicks have to do due diligence on every legal form of medical testing and make an informed decision. Wins and losses have to go out the window here and Isiah has to think about whether he wants to be responsible for this man's life.

But I think that Curry has a right to protect his privacy in terms of genetic testing. If Stern or any part of the NBA was to mandate genetic testing to allow this man to play I shudder at the consequences. If Curry is proven to be able to safely function by the normal range of testing and he wants to play, my feeling is that it's his decision. Ultimately, this decision should be in Curry's court. This issue has HUGE ramifications for every American with a genetically inherited disease. If employers are allowed to subject their employees to genetic screening many Americans (and other citizens around the world) will be denied jobs on tests that in many cases are non-conclusive.

Yes, Curry may be genetically pre-disposed to a heart condition, but should that prevent him from attaining employment based on his sole skill set? How is the man supposed to provide for his family and earn a living if he is forbidden from earning income at the one job he is fit to earn at. Obviously in Curry's case, he has a decent ammount of money already and can provide for his loved ones. But what about Joe Q. Public, who works a decent job but is struggling to make ends meet? What happens when this case becomes a precedent and Joe Q. is forced to submit to genetic profiling and it's found that he has inherited Parkinson's disease or is predisposed to heart disease? Will his employer be able to legally take away his employment on the grounds that they don't want a messy death or medical situation on their hands?

Look, if Curry has this ailment, he could drop dead running around with his kids. If the man WANTS to play, he has a right to keep this information private and play and provide for his family. I hope that he is getting sound advice and going through with this decision with a clear head, but I admire the stand he is taking because it has ramifications for each and every American who may be carrying a gene they may or may not even know about.

This medical privacy is very important for every American. I know it may seem a little Orwellian or sci-fi, but if the government and employers have access to this information it will lead to a lot of people being unable to find employment for some very dubious reasons.

This is Eddy's decision and it should remain his decision. I just hope he is well informed.


Taking the test would only provide at best a partial green light or partial yellow- partial green because if he clears the test, that only means he doesn't have the genetic marker for the one condition- his heart might still have other problems that could be just as nasty. Partial yellow, because having the marker doesn't mean he has the condition, just that he might.

As to the NBA preventing employment based on a genetic test- lets say the test was 100% accurate and conclusive, I think its fair to prevent employment given that such employment (playing basketball) puts his life at immediate risk. Its not like there isn't anything else he can't do to earn a normal living.
crzymdups
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10/5/2005  12:22 PM
Posted by franco12:


Taking the test would only provide at best a partial green light or partial yellow- partial green because if he clears the test, that only means he doesn't have the genetic marker for the one condition- his heart might still have other problems that could be just as nasty. Partial yellow, because having the marker doesn't mean he has the condition, just that he might.

As to the NBA preventing employment based on a genetic test- lets say the test was 100% accurate and conclusive, I think its fair to prevent employment given that such employment (playing basketball) puts his life at immediate risk. Its not like there isn't anything else he can't do to earn a normal living.


Em, I disagree about the second part of what you said. Curry didn't even attempt a college education because of the promise of NBA money. Right now, his sole skill set is NBA basketball player. He has no other options other than play in the NBA or go back to school.

As you said, the DNA test would not do anything but give a "yellow light" at WORST - it would show he had a CHANCE to develop the particular heart problem. But the thing with genes is that sometimes these things develop immediately, sometimes it takes years and sometimes they never show up. The NBA would be denying him employment on the CHANCE that something COULD go wrong on the basis of a test that's illegal in New York and should be illegal throughout the United States. Genetic profiling is ****ed up and should not even enter the equation here. As Fish has shown in the other thread, we didn't need a DNA test to show that Reggie Lewis shouldn't be anywhere near a basketball court and we shouldn't need one for Curry. Genetic or not, this heart condition will manifest itself physically and if Curry is monitored they will be able to read his cardiograms properly and shut him down if neccessary. If they were to use a DNA test to decide he's unemployable that is a horrendous legal precendent which will have fallout for most American families at some point.
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franco12
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10/5/2005  12:42 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by franco12:


Taking the test would only provide at best a partial green light or partial yellow- partial green because if he clears the test, that only means he doesn't have the genetic marker for the one condition- his heart might still have other problems that could be just as nasty. Partial yellow, because having the marker doesn't mean he has the condition, just that he might.

As to the NBA preventing employment based on a genetic test- lets say the test was 100% accurate and conclusive, I think its fair to prevent employment given that such employment (playing basketball) puts his life at immediate risk. Its not like there isn't anything else he can't do to earn a normal living.


Em, I disagree about the second part of what you said. Curry didn't even attempt a college education because of the promise of NBA money. Right now, his sole skill set is NBA basketball player. He has no other options other than play in the NBA or go back to school.

As you said, the DNA test would not do anything but give a "yellow light" at WORST - it would show he had a CHANCE to develop the particular heart problem. But the thing with genes is that sometimes these things develop immediately, sometimes it takes years and sometimes they never show up. The NBA would be denying him employment on the CHANCE that something COULD go wrong on the basis of a test that's illegal in New York and should be illegal throughout the United States. Genetic profiling is ****ed up and should not even enter the equation here. As Fish has shown in the other thread, we didn't need a DNA test to show that Reggie Lewis shouldn't be anywhere near a basketball court and we shouldn't need one for Curry. Genetic or not, this heart condition will manifest itself physically and if Curry is monitored they will be able to read his cardiograms properly and shut him down if neccessary. If they were to use a DNA test to decide he's unemployable that is a horrendous legal precendent which will have fallout for most American families at some point.


Plenty of people without college educations get jobs every day.

Back to the theoretical, if the test were 100% accurate, he would be stopped from playing because doing so would kill him. That's different from my company giving me a DNA test to find out if I would be successful in the job they're hiring me for.

Its a bit like the Air Force having certain standards for their fighter pilots, because a 'physically unqualified' person could end up dead from the g force of standard manuvers...
Allanfan20
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10/5/2005  12:48 PM
Great points and b/c requesting to have an employee or employer take a DNA test is illegal in New York, it's not even an issue anymore and Eddie now has that contract, so him being able to or not being able to provide a great life for his family is not an issue anymore either.

But I agree that this kind of thing should be kept more private. We all have a right to earn our livings and provide for our families. And if one of us dies on the way, it's way unfortunate, but at least we were able to make the best of life.
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HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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10/5/2005  12:52 PM
LOL another knee-jerk reaction from a sportswriter. Hilarious, I tell ya!

"But you know what? This is unquestionably the dumbest, most irresponsible move in the history of the NBA."

This dude sounds like a god damned idiot, making a quote like that. After that line, I knew not to take the rest of the article seriously, because dude already killed his credibility.
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
nixluva
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10/5/2005  1:00 PM
I don't think that the DNA test is necessary. If right now he is tested and they find no defect in his heart. He doesn't have an episode while under stress. 24 or more heart monitoring shows nothing, EKG and Echo Cardiograms shows nothing and BLood Tests show nothing, then he should be allowed to play and they can continue to regularly monitor his situation.

The DNA test if positive ends his career and still doesn't tell you if he has a bad heart NOW or WILL have a fatal episode. It just says he has the Genetic marker for heart problems. Its really not a standard practice in determining heart disease. I just went thru a situation where I passed out on my feet and collapsed due to an arrhythimia and I had all the heart tests above. its been more than a year and no further problems. I was under tremendous stress at the time and took an over the counter drug that morning, which my heart had a bad reaction to. There are a LOT of things that can cause the heart to have temporary problems.
Killa4luv
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10/5/2005  3:06 PM
Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:

LOL another knee-jerk reaction from a sportswriter. Hilarious, I tell ya!

"But you know what? This is unquestionably the dumbest, most irresponsible move in the history of the NBA."

This dude sounds like a god damned idiot, making a quote like that. After that line, I knew not to take the rest of the article seriously, because dude already killed his credibility.
I didnt even read past that. When it comes to the Knicks there is no boundary for ridiculousness.

What an irresponsible thing to say. The guy hasn't played one game yet, how could it be the dumbest move in sports history? We could win it all next year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

curry, the knicks dumbest move? (article)

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