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can we talk about ariza for a second
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djsunyc
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10/2/2005  11:18 PM
i'm curious to see what you all think about ariza.

he's 20 years old. he's shown to be a solid contributor when he gets minutes, especially extended minutes. he's raw as hell, no real handle or jumpshot, but plays defense, extremely athletic, fills the passing lanes and is all over the court.

with that said, are we overhyping him?

now, what i mean by overhyping is that we know he has potential and that he's young BUT is trading him really taboo?

are we so enamored with him b/c he's like the first guy in a LONG LONG time under the age of 21 and actually playing and contributing?

what i'm really asking is that would you be upset if we move trevor in part of that package for curry?

my opinion - i wouldn't be that upset. i think trevor is really good. i like him alot and i see the potential in him. i forgot who said it but he could be in the mold of a bruce bowen. which is a good piece to have but would you guys move a bruce bowen type for someone like curry? i would. and if you asked me today who would i rather have between him and lee, i would say lee. why? b/c lee is taller, is more polished offensively (it will take trevor some time to get to lee's level, if at all), and he's every bit a hustle player as ariza. and since we have tim + Q, and lee waiting in the wings, then moving trevor wouldn't be so suprising for me.

some things i want to bring up, his minutes dropped from 21 per game in jan/feb to 15 in mar/apr. this did coincide with tim's reemergence but also with herb's hiring as head coach. and trevor did get benched during a game last year. so maybe there's something going on where isiah and herb weren't 100% sold on trevor despite his youth hence making him tradeable.

also, if you look at the roster, there's only really one true project and that's trevor. (i'm not counting butler). everyone else has at least 3 years nba experience or has played 3 years in college - things that LB likes and said. "there's no 18-19 year old projects on this team".

i'm not sure if anything i'm saying is true or even makes sense, but i'm curious to see what you guys think about ariza and moving him in a deal for someone like curry.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 10-02-2005 11:21 PM]
AUTOADVERT
Marv
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10/2/2005  11:29 PM
Hater!

Seriously though, I'll cut to the quick.

Scottie Pippen.

That's who we have on our hands with Ariza. Check out their stats in their first year in the league, and remember Scottie was a few years older.

i just see him differently than you, dj. I see the handle, I see the passing, the drives from the wings, a much better J already than people here give him credit for. And all the athletic stuff, the flying putback jams, the skying dunks that 2 or 3 defenders can't touch. And of course the all-out ballsiness, fearlessness, just throwing himself up there against anyone, any size.

Man will be a star.

Either on the Knicks or somewhere else. I would sure rather it be on the Knicks.

Marv-hah
jaydh
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10/2/2005  11:31 PM
i think people are overhyping lee more than ariza. at least ariza has shown he can contribute, while lee has shown nothing as of yet. i think ariza can definately get to the basket a lot better than Bowen ever did. ariza is like camby, but in a sf body, meaning even though his offense isnt polished, he can still pick up several "garbage" pts like camby used too.

for all those not wanting to lose lee in a deal for curry, who would you compare Lee too? what do you really think he is going to bring?
nixluva
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10/2/2005  11:35 PM
Posted by jaydh:

i think people are overhyping lee more than ariza. at least ariza has shown he can contribute, while lee has shown nothing as of yet. i think ariza can definately get to the basket a lot better than Bowen ever did. ariza is like camby, but in a sf body, meaning even though his offense isnt polished, he can still pick up several "garbage" pts like camby used too.

for all those not wanting to lose lee in a deal for curry, who would you compare Lee too? what do you really think he is going to bring?

DANG, can we give Lee a season or at least some games played, before we knock the guy for what he hasn't done?

I love Ariza. His whole approach to the game is just what I like to see out of a player. Once he matures and perfects his skills, he's going to be a hell of a player.
djsunyc
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10/2/2005  11:41 PM
Posted by Marv:

Hater!

Seriously though, I'll cut to the quick.

Scottie Pippen.

That's who we have on our hands with Ariza. Check out their stats in their first year in the league, and remember Scottie was a few years older.

i just see him differently than you, dj. I see the handle, I see the passing, the drives from the wings, a much better J already than people here give him credit for. And all the athletic stuff, the flying putback jams, the skying dunks that 2 or 3 defenders can't touch. And of course the all-out ballsiness, fearlessness, just throwing himself up there against anyone, any size.

Man will be a star.

Either on the Knicks or somewhere else. I would sure rather it be on the Knicks.

Marv-hah


marv - i like ariza and probably wouldn't trade him for anything other than a 22 year old center with a lot of upside. i don't know if i see scottie yet but ariza is a good player. we'll see how it all works out. maybe i'm just trying to pre-justify a response if he is traded.
Rich
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10/3/2005  12:10 AM
I think a small forward is this team's second biggest need. Ariza has a chance to fill that position if he develops. The Knicks would be giving up enough for Curry in light of his health situation.
bobs3304
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10/3/2005  12:14 AM
Ariza isn't Scottie.

Not by a longshot.

DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
Marv
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10/3/2005  12:16 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

marv - i like ariza and probably wouldn't trade him for anything other than a 22 year old center with a lot of upside. i don't know if i see scottie yet but ariza is a good player. we'll see how it all works out. maybe i'm just trying to pre-justify a response if he is traded.

I think Isiah is real high on Reezy - i'd be extremely surprised to see him traded.

Plus think what it would do to Mins!!
Marv
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10/3/2005  12:17 AM
Posted by bobs3304:

Ariza isn't Scottie.

Not by a longshot.

Remember Scottie his first year in the league?
EwingsGlass
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10/3/2005  12:29 AM
I don't think the point is about the potential of these players, I think it is about having a young core... should hold the young guys because they need time to develop and they are cheap. Ariza tends to impress me on the court... his energy is something this team was missing... Lee seems to have that same energy... NRob also. Can't teach that stuff. Can't pay enough for it. I wouldn't trade it away so easily. The ability to keep a young core of players together for the next few years is valuable.
You know I gonna spin wit it
tkf
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10/3/2005  12:30 AM
Posted by Marv:

Hater!

Seriously though, I'll cut to the quick.

Scottie Pippen.

That's who we have on our hands with Ariza. Check out their stats in their first year in the league, and remember Scottie was a few years older.

i just see him differently than you, dj. I see the handle, I see the passing, the drives from the wings, a much better J already than people here give him credit for. And all the athletic stuff, the flying putback jams, the skying dunks that 2 or 3 defenders can't touch. And of course the all-out ballsiness, fearlessness, just throwing himself up there against anyone, any size.

Man will be a star.

Either on the Knicks or somewhere else. I would sure rather it be on the Knicks.

Marv-hah

marv I agree, people comparing him to Bruce Bowen is a Joke to me, they are nothing alike, first of all ariza is twice the athlete Bowen is, a better rebounder and runs the floor better, I see all the things you see in him, it would be a mistake to trade this kid..


Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
djsunyc
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10/3/2005  12:54 AM
Posted by Marv:
Posted by bobs3304:

Ariza isn't Scottie.

Not by a longshot.

Remember Scottie his first year in the league?


all i remember from that bastard known as scottie pippen from back in the day was that jumper he hit at the buzzer to beat the knicks on a game they showed on channel 9 where rick pitino was ejected but watched the game from the entryway.

it was different back then when players were fundamentally sound. so even tho pippen was older, he had a little bit of a jumpshot and a little bit of a handle. but yes, i see what ariza could potentially become. i didn't say it would be easy to move him but i think i would in a deal for curry.
oohah
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10/3/2005  1:18 AM
I find myself agreeing with the "Ariza high potential camp". Marv is right, his J is not as terrible as people seem to think. It isn't anything to write home about either.

Some folks on this board have decried Ariza's summer league performance, but in the games I saw, it looked like whenever he wanted to do something, he could. I saw him cross his man over break down the defense several times, then going to the hole with the abandon we love him for. The reason he didn't dominate is the other thing we like him for...being unselfish. He let the new cats get their shine, he didn't need to impress anyone at summer camp. And he is the youngest guy on the team, so I think the attitude that some never learn, he already has.

Here is what I think he can be similar to:

1) Pippen, T-mac (If he develops his jumper to a high degree.)
2) Marion
3) Johnny Newman--not that skilled but he could dunk on anyone!

oohah

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MinsHeartsReezy
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10/3/2005  1:57 AM
Posted by Marv:


I think Isiah is real high on Reezy - i'd be extremely surprised to see him traded.

Plus think what it would do to Mins!!

I know!! You're always lookin out for me Marv.

I'd would be very sad if he were traded. Big shocker right?

Reezy is our diamond in the rough.

I guess you can call it being hopeful but he was really more than I could initially hope for from a second round pick in the beginning of last season.I dont think he's being overhyped.
I know I bring that up a lot in my previous posts but he was one of the few highlights of a dissapointing season.

Whether he can potentially be the next Pippen or Prince or whoever...I think his work ethic alone shows me that he can be one hell of a player one day. Thinking back to that time against the bulls when he took the last shot and it didn't go in, and the time he was guarding Wade and your heart broke for him. And then thinking about when he makes those dunks and hustle plays you love him for. He gave his best every night and if things didn't go his way it wasn't because he wasn't truely trying. Unlike many of the players that were on our roster. I would love it if he were on my home team when those last second shots and plays started to go his way.

He works very hard and he's learning. He's going to have a great teacher in LB...I just hope he gets the chance.


WOODMANnYk
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10/3/2005  4:03 AM
Posted by bobs3304:

Ariza isn't Scottie.

Not by a longshot.

Defensively, he might be another Scottie Pippen. I see spurts. He's quick, long and covers the passing lane very well.. Exactly like a young Scottie Pippen.. He's only 20 yr old and has lots of potential..




[Edited by - woodmanNyk on 10-03-2005 04:03 AM]
The Future. GO KNICKS!
EnySpree
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10/3/2005  4:04 AM
Posted by oohah:

3) Johnny Newman--not that skilled but he could dunk on anyone!

oohah

Don't sleep on Johnny Newman....he was a decent player on the Knicks. That guy was a decent scorer in his career.

Still Ariza is not even a Johnny Newman.

Ariza is an annoying player because he has no skill outside of his athletic ability. Ariza has a good "feel for the game" and he is a good passer.

Ariza can't put it on the floor and create anything. His jumpshot is still only a spot up jumper at most that he takes forever to get off. The Jumpshot is something that he just added to his game because from day one Ariza's jumper was non-existant.

Can anyone truly say they saw Ariza show signs of getting better in the summer league? Even against inferior talent he still couldn't create his shot or just finish off his drives properly. Ariza still was throwing up shots at the rim and that is not gonna cut it in the NBA. He's gotta be more like Jerome Williams than Chris Dudley before anyone can say Ariza and Scottie Pippen in the same breath.

All that being said I like the kid. I just wish he would develop faster. I was better than him at 19-20 all he had on me was size.

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oohah
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10/3/2005  4:59 AM
Don't sleep on Johnny Newman....he was a decent player on the Knicks. That guy was a decent scorer in his career.

I agree, he also had a long productive career. He was an exciting player.

oohah

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diderotn
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10/3/2005  7:42 AM
Isiah better not trade any of the young kids that he drafted. He spent the time to scout them out and he should find the patience to allow them do develop. He doesn't know too much about Curry but what he sees on the court at time. Curry has been in the league for 4 years and has yes to pan out. I know that his (Curry) boy (Crawff) has been trying to push Zeke to trade for him, but Zeke needs to make the right decisions on this deal. We have 2 to 3 guys that can play the Center position now and many others to play PF. Trade Penny, Malik or Mo T. and a draft pick, but keep our youth intact.
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GoNyGoNyGo
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10/3/2005  8:39 AM
Lee and Ariza have something few Knick players have had over the years and that is basketball savvy. They both do the little things that make them better and give their team a better chance to win. Ariza MUST develop his outside game to be anything more than a 15-20 minute per game player. Lee has the heart. I am not sure what else he has because we've only seen him play a few summer league games, but it was evident that he is smart and has heart. That is a good enough reason to keep him for now.
diderotn
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10/3/2005  8:46 AM
Zeke is too smart to trade players that he drafted. He will most likely trade Sweetney and draft picks, because he didn't draft Sweet. We don't need Curry, we have enough players on our roster right now.....before the signing of big James, I would say it would have been a good deal, but not now.
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