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today's insider: comparing the draft players
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Caseloads
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6/20/2002  10:54 AM
please post, thanks.
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martin
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6/20/2002  12:30 PM
Hmmm... I think this is it.

Who's better, Dunleavy or Butler?
by Chad Ford


With the potential draft prospects now set in stone, the debate can officially begin. Mike Dunleavy or Caron Butler? Yao Ming or Nikoloz Tskitishivili? Chris Wilcox or Drew Gooden?

Let's dig into the mailbag . . .

Q: Why does it seem like the Warriors have very little interest in Caron Butler? If anything, he is a better answer for their problems than Dunleavy. -- Randy, Santa Barbara, Calif.

FORD: I probably have 100 questions in my inbox about Dunleavy. The knocks on him are fairly obvious. He's soft, doesn't have the strength to play in the post but doesn't have the quickness to be a great perimeter player. I'm not sold either. But it's been hard to find a scout or a GM who isn't in love with his game. I can go on and on about the intangibles Dunleavy possesses, his court savvy, crack shooting and stellar handles. Or I could belabor the point that his game keeps improving dramatically every year . . . but Randy's point is a good one. Is Dunleavy really a fit at Golden State? The Warriors are trying to shift Antawn Jamison to the four. Offensively, he's better there. Defensively . . . eh, not so much. But if you're convinced you need a small forward, I'm not sure I take Dunleavy just because he's the consensus No. 3 pick in the draft. Butler is tougher, has a mean streak and has some experience carrying his team. Dunleavy, up to now, has been the third wheel at Duke behind Jay Williams and Carlos Boozer. The Warriors need leadership and a player who has some edge to his game. I think, with time, Dunleavy will be a fine NBA player . . . maybe even a great one. But Butler also has the tools to be an All-Star in the league and the things he brings to the table are just a better fit for a Warriors team that already lacks chemistry. With that said, from everything I hear, Dunleavy to the Warriors is a done deal.

Q: Why do I keep seeing Drew Gooden's name before more talented prospects like Chris Wilcox or even Nene Hilario. Wilcox absolutely dominated Gooden in the Final Four. He's stronger, more athletic and is a better post player. Nene is more aggressive, is even bigger than Wilcox and has much more upside? Please enlighten me. -- Scottie, Bethesda, Md.

FORD: The name of the game these days is versatility. While Wilcox is a classic four with the speed of a three, Gooden has a much more polished inside/outside game. Again, I'm not sold on Gooden. Wilcox, in a few years, has the potential to be a devastating four. I haven't heard any scout go that far with Gooden. He's pretty good for a player his size on the perimeter, but not great. And though his quickness will help him in the post, the NBA has stronger, more athletic players already camping out down there. If Wilcox had a better outside jumper, it would be a no brainer. Once again, we're back to the central question -- polish or potential? Polish sometimes wears off in the pros. Potential gets coaches fired. The word is that Memphis loves him at No. 4. That's not what my Grizzlies source is telling me, but there's much misinformation flying around right now. The Grizzlies may not be picking at No. 4 anyway. Most teams are convinced that the Grizzlies will either move up a slot and grab Dunleavy or move down in some major draft day trade. No one thinks they'll draft at No. 4. Gooden's agent, Bill Duffy, is still convinced that Gooden will be gone by then, to the point that he's not working him out for Denver at No. 5. I think the best fit for Gooden is No. 6 to Cleveland or No. 7 to New York if Wilcox is off the board. Wilcox? Cleveland will take a long look at him at No. 6 and he won't slip past New York at No. 7.

Q: Why not Nikoloz Tskitishvilli over Yao Ming at No. 1? All of the reports I have seen about Ming's workouts say that he has outstanding range for a player his size and better-than-average agility, but I have heard nothing about his post game. If you are going to be a No. 1 pick in the NBA draft at center, shouldn't you have a strong post game, knowing that they are going to be running into Shaq at sometime next year? And if his post game isn't solid, why would Tskitishvilli not be a better No. 1 pick? He is faster, with more range, better athleticism, better ball-handling, younger, and seems to have more of a ceiling than Ming for potential. -- Andy, Erlanger, Ky.

FORD: Comparing Yao with Skita is a bit like comparing apples and oranges. They're both 7-footers, but they are very different players. Yao's ability to play center is what elevates his stock. While Kevin Garnett's name has been thrown around in conjunction with Skita, no one is exactly sure what he is. He's a bigger reach than Garnett was -- think Kwame Brown here. Yes, he has amazing fundamentals and athleticism, but doesn't have nearly the game experience Yao does. Yao, at 7-foot-5, 296 pounds, will have a long NBA career barring injury. The Rockets know he can't bang with Shaq. Who can? It's his ability to draw Shaq away from the basket that intrigues teams. Both players, because of their unique skills for their size, have the potential to be franchise players in the league. Yao makes a lot of sense for the Rockets. I'm not sure how Golden State, Memphis or Denver can afford to pass on Skita. Dunleavy, Gooden, Butler, Wilcox -- none of them has the potential that Skita does.

Q: With so many quality foreign players in the draft and Don Nelson's extensive knowledge of them, I cannot see Mark Cuban and Nellie simply sitting and watching them go to other teams. Any chance that the Mavs make a trade (Michael Finley, Nick Van Exel) to get into the first round? -- Jay, Plano, Texas

FORD: They are working very quietly, Jay. They have tried, unsuccessfully, to interject themselves into the Yao Ming sweepstakes. Forget Cuban's comments about Yao not being as good as Shawn Bradley. The Mavs would love to have him. Their main target now is Nene Hilario. The comparisons to Ben Wallace have them drooling. The team is desperate for a tough, low-post presence who isn't afraid to get nasty down low. Nene is a project offensively, but with the Mavs' multitude of weapons, they don't need him to do anything but run the floor, crash the glass and swat shots. Would teams like the Grizzlies, Nuggets or Cavs be willing to give up the No. 5 pick for Finley? They're making the phone calls.
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martin
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6/20/2002  12:30 PM
Q: The Sixers need some more scoring to go along with Allen Iverson. Their pick in the draft won't bring much immediate help. So the only viable solution would be a trade. But the problem with that is they don't have to many assets to trade. That's where Eric Snow comes in. How much would Snow fetch on the trade market? Any rumors floating around about a Dikembe Mutombo trade to Portland for maybe Scottie Pippen or Rasheed Wallace? -- Kevin, Lawrenceville, N.J.

FORD: The Sixers and the Blazers are definitely the two most active teams out there right now. A league source told Insider Wednesday that the Sixers called the Clippers about a trade that would send Snow to L.A. for Lamar Odom. The Clippers are looking for an old school point guard to take Jeff McInnis's place, and train import Marko Jaric. Odom would be a major piece to the puzzle for the Sixers. Larry Brown has been searching for several years for the right small forward to complement Iverson. If Odom can keep his head on straight and stay away from the hooch, he still has the potential to be a superstar. The Clipps can't afford him, but Philly might be able to. Should the Clipps decide they want to keep Odom, the Hawks and the Pistons have shown interest in Snow. The team is also shopping Mutombo. Portland and New York have the most interest, but if the team could land Odom, it may be better off keeping Mutombo around another season.

Q: The Sixers need some more scoring to go along with Allen Iverson. Their pick in the draft won't bring much immediate help. So the only viable solution would be a trade. But the problem with that is they don't have to many assets to trade. That's where Eric Snow comes in. How much would Snow fetch on the trade market? Any rumors floating around about a Dikembe Mutombo trade to Portland for maybe Scottie Pippen or Rasheed Wallace? -- Kevin, Lawrenceville, N.J.

FORD: The Sixers and the Blazers are definitely the two most active teams out there right now. A league source told Insider Wednesday that the Sixers called the Clippers about a trade that would send Snow to L.A. for Lamar Odom. The Clippers are looking for an old school point guard to take Jeff McInnis's place, and train import Marko Jaric. Odom would be a major piece to the puzzle for the Sixers. Larry Brown has been searching for several years for the right small forward to complement Iverson. If Odom can keep his head on straight and stay away from the hooch, he still has the potential to be a superstar. The Clipps can't afford him, but Philly might be able to. Should the Clipps decide they want to keep Odom, the Hawks and the Pistons have shown interest in Snow. The team is also shopping Mutombo. Portland and New York have the most interest, but if the team could land Odom, it may be better off keeping Mutombo around another season.

Speaking of the Sixers, there has been a lot of confusion over an early Insider report that the Warriors were getting the Sixers pick. The questions keeps being asked, what are the Warriors giving up? If you read the original report, the Sixers sent the Warriors a future first round pick as part of the three team deal that landed Philly Derrick Coleman. While the Sixers can't techinically convey the pick to the Warriors this season (they owe a first rounder to Boston as well) they can draft a player for Golden State and then trade his draft rights to the Warriors. The Warriors may end up sending some compensation to get it this year, but this is a pick that's already owed.

Q: I am 21 years old and have been a season ticket holder/die hard Orlando Magic fan since the team originated in the late 1980s. Should we trade Mike Miller (Tracy McGrady's best friend on the team) and our 18th pick for either a top-5 pick or a good veteran like Antonio McDyess? Do we hang on to Miller in case Grant Hill never makes it back and go for a veteran free agent like Charles Oakley? Do we make no moves, use our 18th pick and draft Melvin Ely, Marcus Haislip or Curtis Borchardt if they are still around. Do we trade our pick and a lesser player than Miller for say the Clippers' No. 8 pick in hopes of landing Amare Stoudemire? -- Ric

FORD: The Magic really struck out in the draft last season. Stephen Hunter was a reach at No. 15 and Jeryl Sasser was a bust at No. 22. They traded the best player they drafted, Brendan Haywood, and now have big holes to fill in the middle and at the point. They could probably land a point, either Dickau or Frank Williams, at No. 18. Ely and Haislip will also be around. But they'd love to get their hands on a player with more potential. They'd love to get Wilcox, Nene or even Stoudemire but they'll have to give up Miller to do it. If the Grizzlies can't land Dunleavy, they would have interest in Miller for the No. 4. The Cavs at No. 6, the Heat at No. 10 and the Wizards at No. 11 would also be interested. But giving up on Miller means you have faith that Hill is healed. From my conversations with Magic sources, I'm not sure they're there yet.

Q: Do you think that the Wolves could trade Wally Szczerbiak to a team like Memphis, Cleveland, LAC or Miami if they ended up getting Dajuan Wagner on draft day? In my opinion, Jerry West, Jim Paxon and Pat Riley would love to have Wally? So do you think there is a possibility of Stern announcing a trade June 26th that has Szczerbiak's name in it with Wagner or another player? -- Jordan, Kingman, Ariz.

FORD: With Terrell Brandon's future still in doubt, and Chauncey Billups exploring free agency soon, the Wolves have a big problem at point guard. They would love to interject themselves in the Andre Miller or Baron Davis talks, but Wally alone isn't going to get it done. There's been talk of Wally going to the Grizzlies for the No. 4 pick, but it doesn't look like it got serious. The Cavs would love to have him, but they won't give up Miller to get him. The Heat are an intriguing possibility, but with an impending extension on the way, he probably doesn't fit their budget. The problem with grabbing a high lottery pick is that, after Jay Williams, there isn't a lot of point guard talent in the high lottery. Wagner isn't a point guard, even he believes that. He would give them another scoring option but they would have to subtract one (Wally) to get him. They might be better off, trying to trade into the mid-first round for Dickau or using their second-round pick on a guy like Tito Maddox or Smush Parker.

Q: Who's the best second-round point guard? Smush Parker, Steve Logan, Jannero Pargo, Marcus Taylor, J.R. Bremer or Lynn Greer? -- Erick, Orlando, Fla.

FORD: Parker has been getting a lot of love lately from teams and Bremer is simply the most athletic player in the draft. The question about both of them is whether they are just two guards in midget suits. As far as pure point guards go, I think teams are more enamored with Miami's John Salmons and Fresno State's Tito Maddox. Pargo has also strung together some impressive workouts. I made a few phone calls and here is the consensus ranking of the point guards after Jay Williams, Frank Williams and Dan Dickau are off the board. 1. Parker 2. Salmons 3. Maddox 4. Logan 5. Bremer 6. Pargo 7. Taylor 8. Greer.
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Knixkik
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6/21/2002  8:49 PM
Can someone post the insider on Wallace vs Nene and McDyess vs Wilcox? Thanx in advance...
bigboymumu
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6/22/2002  12:51 PM
Posted by Knixkik:

Can someone post the insider on Wallace vs Nene and McDyess vs Wilcox? Thanx in advance...

ANTONIO MCDYESS V. CHRIS WILCOX

Rolling the Dice . . .

OFFENSE:

Power forward by trade but only because we have this need to categorize things we don't fully comprehend. He jumps 42 inches, foot to floor, standing still. Give him a step and he goes 47. The basket is 120 inches high. He stands 81 inches tall. You do the math and remember we have yet to factor in his arm length. Give him a running start and a few dribbles and, well, you get the idea. Clearly capable of scoring 20 per game. But we want more. Of course, we want more. Dunk, dunk, after highlight dunk. We remember the dunks. We always remember the dunks.

DEFENSE:

You try defending Tim Duncan, Chris Webber, Kevin Garnett or Rasheed Wallace night after night. McDyess does and gives up a few inches every time he steps onto the floor. He is not a 7-footer. Doesn't play center. Doesn't get a lot of help from whomever is playing center. He once blocked 2.3 shots while also grabbing 1.4 steals over an entire season. Not coincidentally, his finest season on both ends of the court.

KARMA:


Who is Antonio McDyess? After averaging a very average 13.9 points and 10.2 rebounds per game his sophomore season at Alabama, he exploded for 61 points and 36 rebounds in two NCAA Tournament games, turned pro, and was drafted No. 2 overall. After making the All-NBA Third Team, he dropped his point production along with rebounds, steals and blocks the following season. Then he tore up his knee last year missing 72 games, bailed on the team's goodwill tour of Europe and sits on a contract that expires after next season without a smile. After 442 regular-season games and a single All-Star bid, still, we remember the dunks.

bigboymumu
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6/22/2002  12:51 PM
The similarities are eerie. A relatively obscure sophomore before the NCAA tournament, Wilcox blew teams away with his combination of power and athleticism. Power and speed. GM's tend to tune out after hearing those two words in the same sentence. Can he shoot from the outside? Nope. Is he a great ball handler? Nope. Right now he relies on his strength and unbelievable hops to get the ball in the basket. Does it matter? Nope. Power and speed.
DEFENSE:

The good news for Wilcox is it looks like he's heading East. It's easier guarding the likes of Antoine Walker, Kenyon Martin and Jermaine O'Neal. He's not ready to defend Tim Duncan, Chris Webber, Kevin Garnett or Rasheed Wallace night after night. He'll block shots, clean the glass and run the floor but at just 218 pounds he's going to have to add more meat to that 6-foot-9 1/2 frame.


KARMA:

Exactly who is Chris Wilcox? We know his teammates. Juan Dixon and Lonny Baxter led their team to an NCAA Championship. Sure, Wilcox had his highlights. He absolutely shut down fellow prospect Drew Gooden. Then he abused another potential lottery pick, Jared Jeffries, in the championship game. But he's never led. Things come easier when you're the training wheel. Dixon and Baxter did the heavy lifting, Wilcox provided the highlight reel. Like McDyess, is he doomed to be the really good player who needs an even better player to take his team anywhere? Look at the Knicks' or Cavs' roster and tell us who that is?
bigboymumu
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6/22/2002  12:54 PM
wallace
OFFENSE:

Garbage time begins now. Offensive rebounds for tip dunks, loose balls in the paint, point-blank bank shots. Period. Come on, the brother once shot 30 percent from the free-throw line in a season. For his career, he's 33 percent. Don't confuse apples with oranges here. Wallace doesn't score. Never has, maybe never will. In college, he averaged only 12.5 for NCAA Div. II Virginia Union but shot 50 percent. Shoots 50 percent now, he just doesn't shoot very often. Not in his nature. Never scored more than 20 in his career. There were two bench players on his own team who averaged more points than him. Wallace averaged 7.6 during the regular season and 7.3 in the playoffs, thank you very much. When do we get to box out and play defense?

DEFENSE:

You can almost hear his stomach growl with his back to the basket and his man in front of him. Sure, as a 6-foot-9 center, his opponent is bigger, perhaps more skilled. But try being born the 10th child of 11 and you'll learn how to fight for your livelihood, too. Wallace doesn't play defense as much as he pounces on prey. You can almost hear the drums. Timing like this is instinct. Always agitated. Aggressive. Only the fourth player in NBA history to lead the league in blocks and rebounds in the same season. The others were Jabbar, Walton and Olajuwon. They needed only one name. Soft-spoken Big Ben probably prefers you don't remember him at all save for the rustle in the key before he strikes.

KARMA:


Wallace wasn't drafted. Twice tossed into trades as filler, playing for three teams in six seasons. Their loss. No one really gave him a chance until Detroit had to, now they reap the rewards. Have we stopped comparing him to Dennis Rodman, yet? Add muscle, minus the mayhem. Are we going with the cornrows or blow out, today. Maybe the Don King fade. But when all is said and done, Wallace is going to survive. Tooth, nail, rebound. Deadbolt defense. We could call him blue-collar if we didn't prefer he just played with is shirt off, pecs flexed and sweat everywhere. In the five-man game of run and jump, there are very few players who can make an impact without the ball. Wallace was just selected to Team USA having never scored 10 baskets in a single game.
bigboymumu
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6/22/2002  12:55 PM
Nene

OFFENSE:
It's ugly folks. Not Ben Wallace ugly mind you, but ugly nonetheless. Put back dunks? Sure. A monster finish off the break? Absolutely. An occasional low-post spin move? You're pushing it. A free-throw now and then? Maybe 50 percent of the time. A sweet 15-foot jumper? If he could hit that, Yao Ming would have some competition for the No. 1 pick. He's working on his shot and his low-post moves and has shown potentia -- that Wallace just doesn't have -- to put up big numbers. But you'll have to patient. Very patient.
DEFENSE:

Nene burst onto the scene during the 2001 Goodwill Games, when he helped Brazil push the Dream Team to overtime. Nene's shot blocking and rebounding aggressiveness caught the eye of scouts. The 19-year-old Nene ended the game with eight points, seven rebounds and five blocks in just 18 minutes of play. Since then Nene (which means "baby" in Portuguese) has grown. He now measures 6-foot-10 in bare feet, weighs 260 pounds with only 6.8 percent body fat and has an incredible 7-foot-4 and 3/4 wingspan. That's the same wingspan as Yao, folks. But it's his tenaciousness in the paint, a certain ferocity and penchant for crashing the offensive glass that are drawing all of the Baby Ben comparisons.


KARMA:

Jaws are dropping. Wallace . . .he's just the appetizer. With a year or two under his belt, is a young Shawn Kemp a better comparison? With four or five years of low-post training, could he be the next Hakeem Olajuwon? Now that's upside. Of course, with every upside, there's a pretty big downside. He could follow the path of the Yinka Dares and Olumide Oyedejis of the world. He may never be able to get out of his contract with Vasco de Gama. When you talk potential, you also have to talk maybes. Wallace was an easy risk. No draft means no guarantees. Would Denver take a chance on Nene so high in the lottery? Maybe. .
Caseloads
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6/22/2002  10:28 PM
Posted by bigboymumu:

Nene

OFFENSE:
It's ugly folks. Not Ben Wallace ugly mind you, but ugly nonetheless. Put back dunks? Sure. A monster finish off the break? Absolutely. An occasional low-post spin move? You're pushing it. A free-throw now and then? Maybe 50 percent of the time. A sweet 15-foot jumper? If he could hit that, Yao Ming would have some competition for the No. 1 pick. He's working on his shot and his low-post moves and has shown potentia -- that Wallace just doesn't have -- to put up big numbers. But you'll have to patient. Very patient.
DEFENSE:

Nene burst onto the scene during the 2001 Goodwill Games, when he helped Brazil push the Dream Team to overtime. Nene's shot blocking and rebounding aggressiveness caught the eye of scouts. The 19-year-old Nene ended the game with eight points, seven rebounds and five blocks in just 18 minutes of play. Since then Nene (which means "baby" in Portuguese) has grown. He now measures 6-foot-10 in bare feet, weighs 260 pounds with only 6.8 percent body fat and has an incredible 7-foot-4 and 3/4 wingspan. That's the same wingspan as Yao, folks. But it's his tenaciousness in the paint, a certain ferocity and penchant for crashing the offensive glass that are drawing all of the Baby Ben comparisons.


KARMA:

Jaws are dropping. Wallace . . .he's just the appetizer. With a year or two under his belt, is a young Shawn Kemp a better comparison? With four or five years of low-post training, could he be the next Hakeem Olajuwon? Now that's upside. Of course, with every upside, there's a pretty big downside. He could follow the path of the Yinka Dares and Olumide Oyedejis of the world. He may never be able to get out of his contract with Vasco de Gama. When you talk potential, you also have to talk maybes. Wallace was an easy risk. No draft means no guarantees. Would Denver take a chance on Nene so high in the lottery? Maybe. .
could nene be another freddy weis waiting to happen?
BigSm00th
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6/23/2002  12:34 AM
Big possibility, that's really his only big knock.
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Caseloads
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6/23/2002  12:47 AM
Posted by BigSm00th:

Big possibility, that's really his only big knock.
nbadraft.net has nene ranked #5 on draft night and has us picking butler over wilcox and wagner. how do people feel about butler, and us picking butler over wilcox?

does anyone here think butler really is the next paul pierce?
BigSm00th
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6/23/2002  1:28 AM
I do, but the only real games I saw him play was one at the Garden in the Big East Championship game, that was live and he was crazy in that game. Then in the NCAA Tourny he was on fire to so my views of him are bias. I think Butler could drop big time on draft day due to the teams in the lotto. Cleveland has Ricky Davis, who John Lucas compared to MJ so obviously they're not looking for a small forward. Do the Knicks need him? I'd take him but I don't think Layden would if Hilario, Wagner, or Wilcox were still there. Phoenix has Shawn Marion, and the Clips have a whole staff of them in Maggette, Odom, and Miles. He could drop to the Heat at 10.
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today's insider: comparing the draft players

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