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A possible target: Steve Francis...
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oohah
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9/30/2005  2:06 PM
I don't have all the realgm skillz like you guys, and I usually don't engagae in baseless trade scenarios, but here goes:

From what I understand Steve Francis does not want to be in Orlando. Maybe we can clear out our shooting guard and small forward glut and bring this guy in.

I know Francis dribbles too much and is officially a selfish player, but his ability is amazing. He is clutch and he is a great rebounding guard. Craw dribbles and shoots to much anyway. We would have to throw in more, perhaps a TT/Sweetney combo?

What do you guys think? Is it possible? Would you welcome Francis here?

oohah

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gunsnewing
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9/30/2005  2:08 PM
then have a glut of MArbury, crawford, Q, Houston, Penny, Ariza & Francis?
fishmike
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9/30/2005  2:18 PM
yes and no. I think he an Marbury would be as good or better than Hughes and Arenas were last year. A couple things: they are both small. We have Nate and Crawford both of whom I am pretty high on.

That being said you can picture a lot interesting scenarios regarding the Magic and trades.

http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/orlando.htm

Look at their cap. If they could shed Grant hill for an expiring deal they would have max money to play with next offseason. Thats not bad as Orlando has always been a good spot.

I would be more inclined to pass on Francis because I'm so high on NAte and Craw.

However what do you think of Tim Thomas, Penny, and a pick (Spur's 06 #1 maybe) for Grant Hill, Turkoglu and Tony Battie?

The deal saves Orl boatloads and puts them about $20mm under the cap for next year. For us I LOVE Turko. He's a 6'10 guy. Versatile, plays both ways. Everything you liked about Vlad Rad I like about Hedo x2. Battie is a good hardnosed player and defender and we are renting him for a year as his deal is expiring. Grant Hill we can afford to start and play for 20-25 minutes with Q/Ariza to back him up.
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oohah
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9/30/2005  2:18 PM
then have a glut of MArbury, crawford, Q, Houston, Penny, Ariza & Francis?

In my scenario, we most likely trade JC. Penny didn't even play last year, and I doubt he will really play this year. Houston is not in this equation until I see he can play again. Even if he can play then he shouldn't be seeing big minutes.

With a SF trade, we have a true heirarchy of talent rather than the semi-redundant depth we have now.

Starting backcourt:
Marbury/Francis backed up by Q and Robinson.

Now that is nice!

oohah




oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Nalod
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9/30/2005  3:04 PM
Marbs and Francis together are too small, play vertually similar game, have lovely personality traits, and don't exactly play the D.

Make for a nice reality show.

Bonn1997
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9/30/2005  3:51 PM
Posted by Nalod:

Marbs and Francis together are too small, play vertually similar game, have lovely personality traits, and don't exactly play the D.

Make for a nice reality show.

They have weaknesses but they have awesome strengths to their games. I wouldn't worry too much about their size because they're both so STRONG. Francis gives up 2 inches on other SGs but that doesn't concern me too much because he'll more than make up for it on offense and he'll still out-rebound them. I'm not sure they're skills compliment each other very well, but it would be exciting and *could* work out great.
Nalod
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9/30/2005  5:14 PM
Great remark. STRONG! Good word. *Could* gets you off the hook!

7 more days!

Until then, hava a nice day!
EnySpree
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9/30/2005  8:42 PM
The height problem would be the only real weakness.......Francis is an above average rebounder.

Really....who is gonna be able to compete against a Marbs/Francis back court? Whoever takes the ball across the time line runs the offense. If they pass it to you....you better score!!!!

I would not be mad if Francis became a Knick.
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djsunyc
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9/30/2005  8:48 PM
steve francis?

oh my goodness, do i have to start another "NO THANKS CLUB" thread?

i'd rather keep what we have than bring in the franchise...CANCER
rojasmas
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9/30/2005  10:35 PM
Steve Francis and Marbury to me are almost identical players. Thus they should not be coupled together. Both are shoot first point guards and good at it. But both have defensive liabilities and both aren't true point guards. Francis rebounds better but I like Steph better overall. That said, don't even think about it. We need complementary players, not clones.
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oohah
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9/30/2005  11:55 PM
steve francis?
oh my goodness, do i have to start another "NO THANKS CLUB" thread?

i'd rather keep what we have than bring in the franchise...CANCER

Don't get me wrong. I don't care for SF either. But his ability is undeniable, and I am thinking about upgrading talent. LB has been a very good coach to other "problem cases", like Allen Iverson, Rasheed Wallace, and now Stephon Marbury.

Whether or not you like a player, you also have to look at what you might be replacing. SF a cancer? Maybe, but what is he 'killing', a 33 win team? Have the guys he is theoretically replacing shown themselves to be 'winning players'? Not really.

I am big on talent. But that is just me. I also wanted Antoine Walker here.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Ira
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10/1/2005  4:31 AM
Interesting. Marbury and Francis were born one day apart. Theirs stats are very close with Marbury's being a slightly better in most areas.
franco12
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10/1/2005  10:54 AM
and neither are outstanding outside shooters- teams would just back off and play zone, clog the lanes.

Grant Hill might be a better move or Francis in a three way...
daddynel
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10/1/2005  4:50 PM
i'd do penny & a 2nd rounder for hill, but steph and francis are too similar.
Allanfan20
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10/1/2005  5:24 PM
Yeah, the 2 are basically identical plus we have Crawford. If we go for a player, I say there's 50 million others above Francis. Not anything against him as the player or person. But we have bigger needs. Our backcourt is pretty much set, ESPECIALLY if Houston is ready to play. Not that I want him at this point, but Eddie Curry is still a much better option. This is a fantasy thread.
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Bonn1997
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10/1/2005  6:52 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:

Yeah, the 2 are basically identical plus we have Crawford. If we go for a player, I say there's 50 million others above Francis. Not anything against him as the player or person. But we have bigger needs. Our backcourt is pretty much set, ESPECIALLY if Houston is ready to play. Not that I want him at this point, but Eddie Curry is still a much better option. This is a fantasy thread.
Marbury or Francis would have nice trade value if the Knicks are winning. Trade value is all about timing. Once you get the right timing, either of those two would have great trade value.
They're similar but far from identical. Francis is taller, more of a leaper and rebounder. Marbury's a better playmaker; Francis will never get close to the # of assists per season Marbury gets.

Solace
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10/1/2005  7:32 PM
Because of the size issues, I think it's a bad idea. Those two would be great on offense, though. If we went with that, we'd have to have a few defensive beasts at the other positions to help out, because there's going to be nights when whichever is playing 2G will have to defend a Kobe, McGrady, etc...

I think getting a 6'10"+ guy who can score AND rebound should be a priority.
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Bonn1997
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10/1/2005  8:13 PM
Posted by Solace:

Because of the size issues, I think it's a bad idea. Those two would be great on offense, though. If we went with that, we'd have to have a few defensive beasts at the other positions to help out, because there's going to be nights when whichever is playing 2G will have to defend a Kobe, McGrady, etc...

I think getting a 6'10"+ guy who can score AND rebound should be a priority.
It's a short-term solution. I wouldn't do the trade to keep them for the next ten years. If buy low and sell high, then Marbury and Francis should have very high trade value (one or both of them). Marbury's trade value was probably very high at the end of the 2003 season, still high at the end of the 2004 season as he pushed the Knicks to the playoffs, and very high again after the 16-13 start last year. There will be plenty of other moments where it's high again. Francis's trade value was probably very high when the Magic were an above .500 team in the first half of the year and he looked like an all-star. He too will have times of very high trade value. Just get talented players on the team when they come cheaply and be patient with them and let them either thrive in NY or trade them when their value is high. If you wait for the right moment you should be able to get a Brand-level player for Francis and Frye as one example.

Solace
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10/1/2005  9:12 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Solace:

Because of the size issues, I think it's a bad idea. Those two would be great on offense, though. If we went with that, we'd have to have a few defensive beasts at the other positions to help out, because there's going to be nights when whichever is playing 2G will have to defend a Kobe, McGrady, etc...

I think getting a 6'10"+ guy who can score AND rebound should be a priority.
It's a short-term solution. I wouldn't do the trade to keep them for the next ten years. If buy low and sell high, then Marbury and Francis should have very high trade value (one or both of them). Marbury's trade value was probably very high at the end of the 2003 season, still high at the end of the 2004 season as he pushed the Knicks to the playoffs, and very high again after the 16-13 start last year. There will be plenty of other moments where it's high again. Francis's trade value was probably very high when the Magic were an above .500 team in the first half of the year and he looked like an all-star. He too will have times of very high trade value. Just get talented players on the team when they come cheaply and be patient with them and let them either thrive in NY or trade them when their value is high. If you wait for the right moment you should be able to get a Brand-level player for Francis and Frye as one example.

I'm not sure about that. I see Francis's stock falling in an Isiah Rider-type of fashion. He's already made it known in two places in the course of two years that he's not a team player and he's a complainer. The Magic want him out after just one year and the Magic fans want him gone too. To me, that's a bad sign. Talent-wise, no doubt, he's in the upper eschelon, but I'm not sure what his trade value will be. He is a point guard, and it seems like not many teams will overpay for that position, from what I've observed.

But, I would agree with you, if you were 100% convinced you could get Francis, then forward him with Frye for Brand. That would not be a half-bad idea, in that case.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
oohah
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10/2/2005  2:36 AM
I'm not sure about that. I see Francis's stock falling in an Isiah Rider-type of fashion.

Hmmm. Except Isiah Rider was never nearly as good as Francis in the pros. So that would be something.
He's already made it known in two places in the course of two years that he's not a team player and he's a complainer.

True, and that is a definite negative. I always hated watching Francis and Mobley freeze out Ming. I was like: "Just throw it over the phuking basket!" I think that is exactly what Kidd or Nash would do after they drive the hole.
He is a point guard, and it seems like not many teams will overpay for that position, from what I've observed.

You see, that is where I disagree. Francis has been played at PG his whole NBA career, and maybe he thinks he is a PG, but he isn't. He is a shooting guard if I have ever seen one. That is where he should be played.

***

As for Grant Hill, I love his game. If it weren't for his injury problems, he would be a lock for the Hall of Fame. He is great person, it seems. But he is a rolled ankle from watching the game with us. No thanks.

oohah





Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
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