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OT: Rappers stepping up.
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tkf
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9/8/2005  3:52 PM
I know I was a little hard on the rappers for not stepping up, and I was told by a poster to do my homework before I trashed these guys, so I took his advice. Now mods please don't lock this thread, I think it is important for people to know this, a lot of this info is not being put out there and I think people need to know what's going on so they can contribute if they want...

Again I am going to apologize for being hard on the rappers, well at least some of them, I called the radio station and found out that the ludacris foundation (which is of course run by the rapper ludacris) has paid the rent for 15 families who are victims of katrina, he did this for 4 months, and they are being put up at some apartments. I have the address which I will post later on, it is here in Atlanta, but they desperately need everyday items, Sheets, pots and pans, toiletries, towels, etc. I was proud to hear that, but the problem is that we are not hearing enough of it, but as soon as these guys get arrested, or end up in court that information is front page news.. It is good to see these guys stepping up to the plate, and thelonius also mentioned that Jermain Dupree is doing the same thing. If anyone hears of anymore efforts by these guys and where you can donate please post it.. I am going to wal mart today and head over to the apartments this week end. It is on utoy street in Atlanta( not sure about the spelling) but again I will post the complete address later...

personaly I think these entertainers serve the public better with these efforts rather than getting on TV and using other forums to spread your views like clownye west did. Yes I said clown-ye not Kanye. He looks like a clown with those comments, and really he was irresponsible, but that is another topic for another day..

peace..
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EnySpree
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9/8/2005  6:48 PM
Opera has dedicated a few shows now to Katrina. She is saying alot of the same stuff about race.

Race is a huge issue. Always will be. FEMA still would not be down there if it wasn't made into such a political fiasco. Thank God some rich celebs are going down there spending money to help.

Microsoft could give alot more than it gave. Marbury is giving more.

Lisa Marie Presley was sending tons of supplies down there with her own money and she stopped by Target along the way and spent 3,000 extra dollars out of her pocket.

Where Kanye is a idiot for saying what he said.....it doesn't excape the fact that our goverment failed us. With all the power that all these celebs have and with all the talk going around....I hope people like Kanye keep talking and keep talking.....because something needs to be done.

Tkf....what do you have to say about what Sean Penn said? You don't know what he said? Why? Ask yourself that question and find out. The truth must be said and it must be heard. We gave the power to these politicians to represent the people.....it's clearly not working.

I peronally was trying to do something before Katrina or or the hurricane season came. I don't have a voice in America....neither do any of the people I'm working with. Together with the wealthy....especially the ones with some color to them, can rise up and take care of our own.

The Revolution was always here, it's just bang in your face right now.....After 9/11 it was clear but people forgot. Everyone got patriotic but Bush's war in Iraq doesn't make sense to anyone anymore......I hope Katrina is never forgotten. The voice of the American people must be heard. Black people have to stand up! Speak and be heard or just blend in and watch the genocide.

[Edited by - enyspree on 09-08-2005 6:52 PM]
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tkf
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9/8/2005  10:55 PM
enyspree I see your point, but Kayne west was irresponsible and when he said that they are giving permission to shoot and kill our people, that is flat out a lie and irresponsible. May I ask you, do you think that saying Bush doesn't care about black people and to spread lies about bush giving permission to shoot black people is actually helping or hurting? I say it hurts, especially during a time of a disaster, how can that help at all? If people with a voice that can be heard like kayne are going to make progress then they need to be responsible with that power..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
EnySpree
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9/9/2005  10:27 AM
Posted by tkf:

enyspree I see your point, but Kayne west was irresponsible and when he said that they are giving permission to shoot and kill our people, that is flat out a lie and irresponsible. May I ask you, do you think that saying Bush doesn't care about black people and to spread lies about bush giving permission to shoot black people is actually helping or hurting? I say it hurts, especially during a time of a disaster, how can that help at all? If people with a voice that can be heard like kayne are going to make progress then they need to be responsible with that power..

I feel you.....

It still needed to be said because I wanted to say it. Sean Penn called Bush a criminal. All true because National Guard was out there shooting cats before any help was given.

That whole Astrodome stuff was a death trap. People were getting killed and raped. They locked them in there for days. Looking at footage of the place when they started releasing people....it looked like Resident Evil.

The revolution is apon us.

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Pharzeone
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9/9/2005  10:37 AM
Posted by tkf:

enyspree I see your point, but Kayne west was irresponsible and when he said that they are giving permission to shoot and kill our people, that is flat out a lie and irresponsible. May I ask you, do you think that saying Bush doesn't care about black people and to spread lies about bush giving permission to shoot black people is actually helping or hurting? I say it hurts, especially during a time of a disaster, how can that help at all? If people with a voice that can be heard like kayne are going to make progress then they need to be responsible with that power..

This is not true. The Miss. Governor sought to set marshal law that game his troops the right to shoot expected looters first before being placed in harm's way. I saw this reported on CNN, and MSNBC. I will find link to the story and post. Where Bush should be faulted is that he reacted as a former Governor rather than a President. He didn't want to step on their toes. As it turns out the LA Governor probably will take the biggest hit. She was late to react, get Fed help and now being reported refused FEMA help early on. BTW, check out Time Magazine latest article about FEMA director's background. Bush will have to take a hit if any of those reports are true.



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toodarkmark
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9/9/2005  11:24 AM
You know its funny how when someone expresses a truth, an opinion, or a fact and conservatives like to talk about how it's "hurting" something.

You wanna know what really hurts people? Going into a war without any proof or justification. Not allowing research and cutting funding for hurricane research and levee construction to divert funds to a useless war. You know what else hurts people? Repealing an estate tax to save millionaires and billionares a trillion dollars in the next few years, which then will fall on us in 10 years to fix the deficit. You know what else hurts? Is a government so consumed by greed, power hunger and propaganda that it could care less about its short or long term effects on America or humanity.

But you go ahead and attack people for stating their opinions and thoughts. Because in your culture, the culture of conservatism, free thought and research are really the hurtful thing. The best thing is to be quiet and accept what they do to you and the world, because you are far too afarid to be live life without someone dictating to you exactly how to think.

Posted by tkf:

enyspree I see your point, but Kayne west was irresponsible and when he said that they are giving permission to shoot and kill our people, that is flat out a lie and irresponsible. May I ask you, do you think that saying Bush doesn't care about black people and to spread lies about bush giving permission to shoot black people is actually helping or hurting? I say it hurts, especially during a time of a disaster, how can that help at all? If people with a voice that can be heard like kayne are going to make progress then they need to be responsible with that power..


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MS
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9/9/2005  12:01 PM
Its nice to see people steping in and being charitable, but the thing that is amusing about Kayne and all these other rappers is that they trash the government, talk about all the underprivledged in their communities and then they go out and spend half a million on cars, hundreds of thousands on diamonds, spend in excess, champagne, parties, all while their people are starving....

You look at athletes like Andre Agassi who has spent 20 million of his own money to set up a school for poor children and works endorsers into making donations to their charities and you see how one person can make a difference.....

People are all over Microsoft but Bill Gates gives millions away each year, giving a million dollars away isn't all that much these celebs can go over sees and do a beverage add and make that in nearly a day......

So the more people that Step up the better, if Warrick Dunn's existed on every team the world would be a better place.....
MS
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9/9/2005  12:03 PM
Its nice to see people steping in and being charitable, but the thing that is amusing about Kayne and all these other rappers is that they trash the government, talk about all the underprivledged in their communities and then they go out and spend half a million on cars, hundreds of thousands on diamonds, spend in excess, champagne, parties, all while their people are starving....

You look at athletes like Andre Agassi who has spent 20 million of his own money to set up a school for poor children and works endorsers into making donations to their charities and you see how one person can make a difference.....

People are all over Microsoft but Bill Gates gives millions away each year, giving a million dollars away isn't all that much these celebs can go over sees and do a beverage add and make that in nearly a day......

So the more people that Step up the better, if Warrick Dunn's existed on every team the world would be a better place.....
tkf
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9/9/2005  1:22 PM
Posted by toodarkmark:

You know its funny how when someone expresses a truth, an opinion, or a fact and conservatives like to talk about how it's "hurting" something.

You wanna know what really hurts people? Going into a war without any proof or justification. Not allowing research and cutting funding for hurricane research and levee construction to divert funds to a useless war. You know what else hurts people? Repealing an estate tax to save millionaires and billionares a trillion dollars in the next few years, which then will fall on us in 10 years to fix the deficit. You know what else hurts? Is a government so consumed by greed, power hunger and propaganda that it could care less about its short or long term effects on America or humanity.

But you go ahead and attack people for stating their opinions and thoughts. Because in your culture, the culture of conservatism, free thought and research are really the hurtful thing. The best thing is to be quiet and accept what they do to you and the world, because you are far too afarid to be live life without someone dictating to you exactly how to think.

Posted by tkf:

enyspree I see your point, but Kayne west was irresponsible and when he said that they are giving permission to shoot and kill our people, that is flat out a lie and irresponsible. May I ask you, do you think that saying Bush doesn't care about black people and to spread lies about bush giving permission to shoot black people is actually helping or hurting? I say it hurts, especially during a time of a disaster, how can that help at all? If people with a voice that can be heard like kayne are going to make progress then they need to be responsible with that power..



yea, this is how we do things, we excuse wrong behavior by pointing out other wrong behavior. To say there wasn't proof at all to go to war may be a little misleading. Maybe bush was mislead or got bad info, but no proof? I don't buy it. But lets remember we have the right to free speech, but does that give us the right to yell "fire" in a crowded movie theater? Kayne was irresponsible, now if you want to compare that to going to war fine, because I am sure bush is receiving a lot of heat for that also, but lets not excuse wrong doing because of that, Kayne had no proof that bush or anyone else ordered the national guard to shoot black people, that is what he said, he said now they are giving orders to shoot "our" people, that was a damn lie, and to say that bush doesn't care about black people at this time is just innapropriate....
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joec32033
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9/9/2005  1:36 PM
Now.....I try to stay away from these topics but something I was thinking about along the lines of what tkf just said. If I remember upon declaring marshall law, the order was given to shoot looters on site. Now I personally don't parallel looter to me mean African Americans. Maybe Kanye does, I don't know, but my definition of "looter" is some who is stealing stuff. I have never seen a color desgnation in the dictionary defining looter.

I like Kanye's music (although it seems he went Totally quiet until now, which BTW is right around the time his album came out)...I am no a conspiracy theorist, but isn't it weird he gets all this publicity now, right around the time the sales of his new start to lag, a few weeks after it comes out.

BTW, as such a Champion of Black people as he is making himself to be why do his hip hop Albums have semi-denegrating titles such as "College Dropout" and "Late Registration".

Just a thought.
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EnySpree
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9/9/2005  6:40 PM
Posted by joec32033:

Now.....I try to stay away from these topics but something I was thinking about along the lines of what tkf just said. If I remember upon declaring marshall law, the order was given to shoot looters on site. Now I personally don't parallel looter to me mean African Americans. Maybe Kanye does, I don't know, but my definition of "looter" is some who is stealing stuff. I have never seen a color desgnation in the dictionary defining looter.

I like Kanye's music (although it seems he went Totally quiet until now, which BTW is right around the time his album came out)...I am no a conspiracy theorist, but isn't it weird he gets all this publicity now, right around the time the sales of his new start to lag, a few weeks after it comes out.

BTW, as such a Champion of Black people as he is making himself to be why do his hip hop Albums have semi-denegrating titles such as "College Dropout" and "Late Registration".

Just a thought.

(Just so you know Joe this is not a personal hit towards you so don't take it that way)

New Orleans has some of the poorest areas in the country and might actually be the poorest. Poor meaning black people. There are poor white people but the majority of the poor in the area are black people. When you don't have anything.....when your homes have been washed away and you can't eat.....what do you do? Do what you gotta go......shoot looters on sight....who are the looters?

There also seems to be a difference to cetain people when it comes to "looting" and "finding".....especially in the media.

All this talk is bull**** because the US goverment, meaning the Bush administration should imediately step in to take care of the citizens of this country. All the information on New Orleans was not a secret. They knew that that city was doomed. They ordered a manditory evacuation but still had people stuck in hospitals. Why were so many people left behind? Most of the people that were financially able to go left. Thousands of the poorest people in our country stayed behind. The National Guard should have been out there excorting people away from the Danger Zone if it was manditory.(even the people who could get out have exausted most of their funds and are in the same boat as the rest)

This is a natural disaster......Bush didn't drop a bomb on these people. The fact is these people were left for dead for 5 days. The US blew up Iraq and then tossed rations out to help the people of Iraq. The US has become a political machine bent of oppression. The United States moves without United Nations backing are still in Iraq

I ask where is the help from the rest of the world when a whole city has basically disappeared? This is a deep concern.

I believe all this is has racism all over it.......but aside from that you must understand that this goverment is not for the people. All the people that voted for this tirant for 2 straight terms? Look at what is going on. This is supposed to be a country for the people. New Orleans, Iraq, and numerous issues that poor black people face in america on a everyday basis......this country is in trouble. The Rich didn't see it till they saw New Orleans go down. If you don't think that something is wrong with the goverment then I proclaim that you too are part of this racist establishment and are ignorant to the fact that this county is in trouble.







[Edited by - enyspree on 09-09-2005 6:42 PM]

[Edited by - enyspree on 09-09-2005 6:49 PM]
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EnySpree
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9/9/2005  7:19 PM


Another thing.....they were calling all these American citizens refugees!!!

Forget what an entertainer calls his album. Cuz Kanye did that "Diamonds" video showing where the diamonds comes from yet still makes crazy purchases from Jacob the Jeweler and flaunts.

Also let me point out that Kanye made comments....he is not all of a sudden a civil right leader or the absolute voice of black people. To say that he used this time to possibly benifit his album sales? Bad.....lets just hope that ain't the case.
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joec32033
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9/9/2005  11:19 PM
Eny no offense taken at all...Racism and perspective are all in the eye of the beholder.

I can not in good conscience call this racist for no other reason than it was not overtly and utterly proven as racist. Many people in the chain of command failed the poeple of NO, some of them black. There are poor white people in NO too, and it's not like they were given a better chance than the blacks down there. Now if you want to say well, there are more black people hurt so it is racist, well, that is your perogative (just a general statement eny, not a take on your posts). I personally take labeling someone a racist VERY serious, so I don't do it often, if ever.

I really am not taking a position on this because there is definately some info I am not privy too, and unfortunately I don't trust ANY media as my gatekeeper of information.

The problem I do have is with the way Kanye is acting. Kanye is very politically conscious, I know that, but I just think his recent actions are way out of line. When you say, Eny, to forget what Knaye names his albums, I can't help but point to his hypocritical behaviour. I am going to raise my people up by dropping a hip-hop album called "College Dropout"? What message does that send? He is talking about Bush is a racist? I don't see him cancelling his concerts to go help in NO. Based on his current comments, do you think that Kanye, if he even was to go down to help in NO, you think he would turn away white people because of the injustice he percieves that was aimed specifically at blacks?

I am just saying, that Kanye West should not be the person who is all of a sudden declaring that someone else is holding black people down. Everyone has a right to speak out, but very few people have earned the privelage to truly be taken seriously. Nelson Mandella has the right to do it.The late Rev. Martin Luther king has the right to do it. Even though I don't agree with some of his methods, the late Malcolm X has the right to do it. I think through his films and his actions, Spike Lee has a right to speak out. Not one of these people has done anything but try to lift their racial image up. None of these have ever wavered from that. Now you are going to tell me a dood who spends, as you said, crazy $$ on ice after he totally rips where it comes from, who feels naming an album "College Dropout" like it is an accomplishment is on totally solid ground when he rips at percieved racism. You can question Bush's antics (hell I voted for Kerry because he WASN'T Bush)but to label a man a racist because he is not a good leader is preposterous.

As for the timing of his comments and his album sales...I know it is bad to suggest it. I also am not blind to the fact that it has had a positive affect on his sales. I guess it is just my percieved notion, alot like Kanye West has voiced his.

[Edited by - joec32033 on 09-09-2005 11:19 PM]
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tkf
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9/10/2005  12:21 AM
I can not in good conscience call this racist for no other reason than it was not overtly and utterly proven as racist. Many people in the chain of command failed the poeple of NO, some of them black. There are poor white people in NO too, and it's not like they were given a better chance than the blacks down there. Now if you want to say well, there are more black people hurt so it is racist, well, that is your perogative (just a general statement eny, not a take on your posts). I personally take labeling someone a racist VERY serious, so I don't do it often, if ever.

excellent post Joe, and that is my point, a lot of people failed here, but that is ignored because people have their agendas regarding bush. Labeling someone a racist is a serious thing, and one thing I am careful of... what bothers me about kayne west is the level of irresponsibility he showed by sensationalising this disaster in way that was negative, saying that the govt game permission to shoot our people as if they were just sniping black people from choppers for no other reason than the color of their skin. He wants to be a voice that is heard obviously, he has the power and he misued it... that is sad. If anything what should be question is why the govt in NO and Lousianna so ill-prepared to help out is citizens in a better way.... then we can get to why the fed govt was slow reacting to the fact that the local govts dropped the ball..
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9/10/2005  1:03 AM
Funny thing is, ask the average American 'Is there racism in America?' and they'd say YES. But no one seems to be a racist though lol. How is that? Why is that? Based on the fact that there are no Jim Crow laws or Whites Only signs around anymore racism has now become very very DIFFICULT TO DETECT AND EASIER TO DENY. What one will say is PROVE IT. Ok, so in that case no one in the goverment is a racist or a bigot. Unless a man joins the Klan or goes out with a wild mob and beat up a person that they are prejudice against, there is nothing to prove. Makes them no less of a racist though if they were one to begin with.

If I'm a white man and I don't want minorities to work in my company all I have to do is hire the minimun amount so that I can avoid any lawsuits. But this white guy could still be a racist. But....prove that he isn't. Good luck.

In Bush's case or any other politician's case, forget 'racist'....that's not the word that was used. The phrase was 'George W Bush does not care about black people'. Whether you agree with it or not, his track record shows how low on the agenda the black community has been. Kanye West did not say anything that I haven't heard in barbershops, basketball courts, school hallways, churches, rallies, marches or protests. This has been the opinion of many in the black community waaaaayyyyyyy before Katrina. People come down on Kanye, but what about the large amount of people who speak on that daily? Not just now......for the past 4 or 5 years. How do people come to this conclusion? This should be the question. Everyone looks at the RESULT only..... which is Kanye making that statement on TV. No one ever wants to look at the CAUSES. Whether Kanye said it or not, that notion is still overwhelming in the black communities here and abroad. Kayne West didn't make it up himself.

Black people fall into a category of 'people who have not peaked the intrest of the white house'. Period. It's not just black people. I believe that their are plenty of other people that GW Bush doesn't particularly care about. We DO know that a list of people could be complied that he DOES care about and that he DOES look out for. We can sit here and think about the many people who benifit from his being in office. These are the people that are high on his 'to do list' monthly I suppose. Historically (and check the record for yourself) the black community does not fall in that category.

Lastly, I've also heard that the Kanye comment was in bad taste and it was bad timing even if that IS how he feels. My question is.....being that most will agree that there IS racism in America....when is the appropriate time to talk about the race issues of this country? People agree that there are race issues here (there have even been men on the police force who said that they were being trained to racially profile in Illinois). If this is the case when is it ok to have those dialogues? Race seems to be one of the most taboo things to talk about in this country, yet people agree that there is a problem. People use the phrase 'playing the race card'. People say 'it can't be proven'. People say 'it has no merit'. In order, imo, to come to a point where it can be talked about, people who bring it up need to stopped being surpressed. Also, if you don't understand why or how a person has come to that conclusion maybe it's because you are detached from THAT person's realities and experience. Unless you make an attempt to understand why a person would arrive at the conclusion, and/or do your own investigation, you fall into the category of 'prove it' and you may as well gag anyone who talks about race in this country.
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9/10/2005  1:19 AM
Funny thing is, ask the average American 'Is there racism in America?' and they'd say YES. But no one seems to be a racist though lol. How is that? Why is that? Based on the fact that there are no Jim Crow laws or Whites Only signs around anymore racism has now become very very DIFFICULT TO DETECT AND EASIER TO DENY. What one will say is PROVE IT. Ok, so in that case no one in the goverment is a racist or a bigot. Unless a man joins the Klan or goes out with a wild mob and beat up a person that they are prejudice against, there is nothing to prove. Makes them no less of a racist though if they were one to begin with.

If I'm a white man and I don't want minorities to work in my company all I have to do is hire the minimun amount so that I can avoid any lawsuits. But this white guy could still be a racist. But....prove that he isn't. Good luck.

In Bush's case or any other politician's case, forget 'racist'....that's not the word that was used. The phrase was 'George W Bush does not care about black people'. Whether you agree with it or not, his track record shows how low on the agenda the black community has been. Kanye West did not say anything that I haven't heard in barbershops, basketball courts, school hallways, churches, rallies, marches or protests. This has been the opinion of many in the black community waaaaayyyyyyy before Katrina. People come down on Kanye, but what about the large amount of people who speak on that daily? Not just now......for the past 4 or 5 years. How do people come to this conclusion? This should be the question. Everyone looks at the RESULT only..... which is Kanye making that statement on TV. No one ever wants to look at the CAUSES. Whether Kanye said it or not, that notion is still overwhelming in the black communities here and abroad. Kayne West didn't make it up himself.

Black people fall into a category of 'people who have not peaked the intrest of the white house'. Period. It's not just black people. I believe that their are plenty of other people that GW Bush doesn't particularly care about. We DO know that a list of people could be complied that he DOES care about and that he DOES look out for. We can sit here and think about the many people who benifit from his being in office. These are the people that are high on his 'to do list' monthly I suppose. Historically (and check the record for yourself) the black community does not fall in that category.

Lastly, I've also heard that the Kanye comment was in bad taste and it was bad timing even if that IS how he feels. My question is.....being that most will agree that there IS racism in America....when is the appropriate time to talk about the race issues of this country? People agree that there are race issues here (there have even been men on the police force who said that they were being trained to racially profile in Illinois). If this is the case when is it ok to have those dialogues? Race seems to be one of the most taboo things to talk about in this country, yet people agree that there is a problem. People use the phrase 'playing the race card'. People say 'it can't be proven'. People say 'it has no merit'. In order, imo, to come to a point where it can be talked about, people who bring it up need to stopped being surpressed. Also, if you don't understand why or how a person has come to that conclusion maybe it's because you are detached from THAT person's realities and experience. Unless you make an attempt to understand why a person would arrive at the conclusion, and/or do your own investigation, you fall into the category of 'prove it' and you may as well gag and bound anyone who talks about race in this country.
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bigpimpin
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9/10/2005  5:13 AM
Kanye West said what millions of people already have said. Millions of people can't be wrong, now can they.

If you are black and you disagree with Kanye then you are lost.
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Switzerland
9/10/2005  9:42 AM
big time...the only thing wrong with what kanye said was he should have said George Bush doesn't care about POOR people...and that's only because people will flat out deny it because it can't possibly be true...can it?

Well, he doesn't. No matter how you slice it, he reacted slower than he would have had it been a middle class white neighborhood.

Not because it was white and not because it was middle class, but he would have reacted faster.

Eff FEMA...I'm all about the red cross.
all kool aid all the time.
Killa4luv
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USA
9/10/2005  7:27 PM
Great Post thelonious. And as a side note, to whoever said it, the population left in New Orleans was overwhelmingly black, probably higher than 90%. To say there were some black people and some white people is so misleading its a lie.

The government giving orders to shoot 'looters' first off is ridiculous. They should have been giving orders to feed, clother, and heal people. Looting should have been last on the last. How important relative to the death and sickness that is going on there, is some idiots stealing a Tv or some sneakers?

Second, the NYTimes has even documented racist coverage in the media that refers to white people as finding food, and black people as looters. In other words, the same racist line of thought that made some white writer not think white people were looters, is the same racist line of thought they we are presuming will be applied when the armed forces starts deciding who is and who isn't a looter.
Killa4luv
Posts: 27769
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USA
9/10/2005  7:32 PM
And for all of you who are so upset with Kanye, what he did was say something you guys didn't like. Big freaking deal. Why don't you spend some time being mad at how bush's lack of leadership and responsiveness costed thousands of lives? Or how his shady hiring practices has someone like Mr. Brown,(the former head of FEMA) costed thousands of lives as well? If you wanna be mad about something, be mad about that which is meaningful and has an impact on people's lives and deaths, instead of being mad at the words of an rapper who has a hot album!!
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