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moving marbury - is that really an option?
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djsunyc
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8/21/2005  11:12 PM
this is not a marbury bash thread.
nor am i advocating we should trade him.

i'm just curious to think if we do decide to move him, who is willing to take back the $70-80 mil left on his deal. let's say it's at the break or next summer, then we're talking $60+ mil a team has to take back. and who would do that, especially since we'd be moving him so that we're significantly under the cap in 07/08. we'd need to match close to $16-18 mil in deals coming back AND expire in 2 seasons.

is this even realistically possible?

or if we decide to move him, it HAS to be for another big contract and it won't be for cap room? this expands the option b/c there are many bad contracts out there but none for players as good as steph.
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KNICKSdom
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8/21/2005  11:17 PM
if we are trading Marbury, we need to get back a superstar player or someone that show those qualities and a 1st rd pick.
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nixluva
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8/22/2005  12:02 AM
I can't think of anyone right now who would take on his contract. Unless we make a serious playoff run this year and he looks real good, like Nash. The thing is I don't expect that even if we do win, that he'll get a big boost in his rep around the league.

Nah I think he's gonna be with us for a long while.
Silverfuel
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8/22/2005  5:59 AM
Posted by KNICKSdom:

if we are trading Marbury, we need to get back a superstar player or someone that show those qualities and a 1st rd pick.
agreed.
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franco12
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8/22/2005  9:16 AM
Posted by nixluva:

I can't think of anyone right now who would take on his contract. Unless we make a serious playoff run this year and he looks real good, like Nash. The thing is I don't expect that even if we do win, that he'll get a big boost in his rep around the league.

Nah I think he's gonna be with us for a long while.


Dallas-

What about Houston- I could see them seeing Marb's potentially putting them over the top with Ya & McGrady
Nalod
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8/22/2005  9:28 AM
His value is really hard to place.

Taking on Penny's contract as part of his deal and then diluting further by trading him is not ideal.

The true character of this team is not yet determined, and won't be for some time.

Therefore, other than names, who do we trade for? Are we filling needs (we don't know what they are?) or just collecting talent? Are we rebuilding? or trying to upgrade to contender status?

Would the knicks take what ATL offered for JJ? Two picks and Boris? If so, then whom fills the Point?

If the rookies really start to show stuff, and lets say the trio of Craw-nte-Q are qualified, then perhaps thru promotion of other players we trade for specific assets. Be it picks, or role players, or combo.

For now, we need his firepower to take over games in stretches, and the garden needs his marketablity.



[Edited by - nalod on 08-22-2005 09:32 AM]
BasketballJones
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8/22/2005  10:58 AM
Sure, I think it's always an option. Zeke would find some way to do it, if that was the goal. The question is do the Knicks want to trade him?

As long as Stephon's on the team, he's the key. That's obvious just by the number of threads about him on UltimateKnicks.

How will he respond to LB? Will the recent additions provide him with better options than he's had?

Should be interesting.

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Bonn1997
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8/22/2005  11:25 AM
Posted by nixluva:

I can't think of anyone right now who would take on his contract.
Then you've been listening to Chad Ford too much. If Dallas is willing to spend $73 mil on Dampier, if GS is willing to spend about the same on Adonal Foyle plus Derek Fisher, then OF COURSE teams would spend $76 mil on a talent like Marbury. (About 2 months ago, I listed about ten teams that spent $70 mil last year on one or two players who are far inferior to Marbury.)
rvhoss
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8/22/2005  12:34 PM
the only player that could improve our team to championship level is shaq, and even then, I don't think that is possible.

Moving marbury would mean there would still be only one star (the player we get in return).

AI can't do it, Kobe can't do it, KG can't do it, and Shaq can't do it alone.

So realistically, we gotta go with filling a roster around marbs that can put us over the hump...I think we are all in agreement that we are one all star and one full year away from contending.

That's more than we can say for a lot of other teams.

Trading marbs would mean another 3 years of misery.

I like where we are headed, championship game by LB's 3rd year.

[Edited by - rvhoss on 08-22-2005 12:35 PM]
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crzymdups
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8/22/2005  12:36 PM
I keep thinking Marbury for Maggette. I suppose with the Clips having Sam I Am now, it makes a lot less sense...

But, if I moved Marbury, I'd want a scorer like Maggette in return. or a young big with at least Chandler or Dalembert level-potential. I wouldn't move him just for cap space.
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islesfan
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8/22/2005  1:04 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by nixluva:

I can't think of anyone right now who would take on his contract.
Then you've been listening to Chad Ford too much. If Dallas is willing to spend $73 mil on Dampier, if GS is willing to spend about the same on Adonal Foyle plus Derek Fisher, then OF COURSE teams would spend $76 mil on a talent like Marbury. (About 2 months ago, I listed about ten teams that spent $70 mil last year on one or two players who are far inferior to Marbury.)


Just wondering but how many of those players you named have the same cap impact as Marbury since that $76m is paid out over 4 years.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Marv
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8/22/2005  1:06 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by nixluva:

I can't think of anyone right now who would take on his contract.
Then you've been listening to Chad Ford too much. If Dallas is willing to spend $73 mil on Dampier, if GS is willing to spend about the same on Adonal Foyle plus Derek Fisher, then OF COURSE teams would spend $76 mil on a talent like Marbury. (About 2 months ago, I listed about ten teams that spent $70 mil last year on one or two players who are far inferior to Marbury.)


Just wondering but how many of those players you named have the same cap impact as Marbury since that $76m is paid out over 4 years.

Well figure out cap impact adjusted for court impact if you're going to compare Stephon Marbury with Erik Dampier, Derek Fisher and Adonal Foyle.
islesfan
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8/22/2005  1:17 PM
Posted by Marv:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by nixluva:

I can't think of anyone right now who would take on his contract.
Then you've been listening to Chad Ford too much. If Dallas is willing to spend $73 mil on Dampier, if GS is willing to spend about the same on Adonal Foyle plus Derek Fisher, then OF COURSE teams would spend $76 mil on a talent like Marbury. (About 2 months ago, I listed about ten teams that spent $70 mil last year on one or two players who are far inferior to Marbury.)


Just wondering but how many of those players you named have the same cap impact as Marbury since that $76m is paid out over 4 years.

Well figure out cap impact adjusted for court impact if you're going to compare Stephon Marbury with Erik Dampier, Derek Fisher and Adonal Foyle.


Not sure what your point is. Did I question that thos players had more or equal impact on the court than Marbury? Because those players are untradable and vastly overpaid means that Marbury is tradeable? I'm just pointing out that once again, Bonn is comparing Cherry Kool-Aid to Very Berry Kool-Aid.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
gunsnewing
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8/22/2005  1:39 PM
Posted by KNICKSdom:

if we are trading Marbury, we need to get back a superstar player or someone that show those qualities and a 1st rd pick.


that is the reason Marbury will never be traded until maybe his expiring year in 2009. What team is going to trade for his enormous cap hindering contract? The only trade you can make for Marbury is a salary dump for expiring contracts like Phoenix did when they traded Marbury to us. Something like Marbury to Atlanta for Harrington's expiring contracts and a 1st round pick and throw ins.

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 08-22-2005 1:42 PM]
Cookdcokehop
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8/22/2005  2:43 PM
I think some of you forgot that Starbury is still the best player on the team. The only allstar. Top 5 point guard. 20 AND 8 every year of his career. Last year was statistacally his best year, and you want to trade him? I dont get it. Who will play the point...Crawford. Oh no I mean Nate Robinson, since he can duck at 5'8, he must be better than Marbs. Yall all have The off season syndrome. The anticipation is getting to your minds and affecting the way you think. If we trade Marbs we might as well tell our season ticket holders dont intend on buying any post season tickets anytime soon.
Bonn1997
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8/22/2005  8:16 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Marv:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Bonn1997:

[quote]Posted by nixluva:

I can't think of anyone right now who would take on his contract.
Then you've been listening to Chad Ford too much. If Dallas is willing to spend $73 mil on Dampier, if GS is willing to spend about the same on Adonal Foyle plus Derek Fisher, then OF COURSE teams would spend $76 mil on a talent like Marbury. (About 2 months ago, I listed about ten teams that spent $70 mil last year on one or two players who are far inferior to Marbury.)


Just wondering but how many of those players you named have the same cap impact as Marbury since that $76m is paid out over 4 years.
I don't quiet get the question; their contracts are at least as long and as high as Marbury's. (Sometimes it's two players combined like I already mentioned who don't have anywhere near the impact Marbury does; that just means they take up more roster spots than Marbury but has no impact on the cap.)
rvhoss
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8/22/2005  8:37 PM
so was Q payback to the suns for Penny, or are they better businessmen?

[Edited by - rvhoss on 08-22-2005 8:37 PM]
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islesfan
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8/22/2005  10:39 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Marv:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Bonn1997:

[quote]Posted by nixluva:

I can't think of anyone right now who would take on his contract.
Then you've been listening to Chad Ford too much. If Dallas is willing to spend $73 mil on Dampier, if GS is willing to spend about the same on Adonal Foyle plus Derek Fisher, then OF COURSE teams would spend $76 mil on a talent like Marbury. (About 2 months ago, I listed about ten teams that spent $70 mil last year on one or two players who are far inferior to Marbury.)


Just wondering but how many of those players you named have the same cap impact as Marbury since that $76m is paid out over 4 years.
I don't quiet get the question; their contracts are at least as long and as high as Marbury's. (Sometimes it's two players combined like I already mentioned who don't have anywhere near the impact Marbury does; that just means they take up more roster spots than Marbury but has no impact on the cap.)


Player A's remaining contract: 4 years and $80m

Player B's remaining contract: 7 years and $70m

Now explain how that's the same thing.

You're combining players to add up to Marbury's untradeable contract? Unbelievable. Seriously, if you need to reach that far to spin this then don't even bother replying.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
rvhoss
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8/22/2005  10:49 PM
I'm going to have to agree.

[Edited by - rvhoss on 08-22-2005 10:49 PM]
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Bonn1997
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8/22/2005  10:52 PM
Player A's remaining contract: 4 years and $80m

Player B's remaining contract: 7 years and $70m

Now explain how that's the same thing.

Where did I say they were the exact same? The examples I gave in the reply a while ago (2 of which I restated) were similar in salary. They're so similar that it's not worth discussing the difference (e.g., $73 mil for Dampier vs $76 mil for Marbury). You could argue shorter contract is better because it comes off the cap sooner if you're worried about the cap. I'd much rather have four years of Marbury than six of Dampier on the cap in this example.

You lost me on the part about two players vs one (I'd rather spend $76m on Marbury than the same on two severely inferior players), but many of the examples in the original reply were just one player anyway; so it's really an irrelevant topic

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 08-22-2005 11:00 PM]
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moving marbury - is that really an option?
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